Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[he-man]

Why would the upgrade had been cheaper in 2005? Not the timeline but the required capability is important for the cost.

There was never a HAL-IAI consortium, nor a joint bid. Infact, most of the Israeli stuff that could be on offer are from Rafael, but that are only radar avionics and weapons, but doesn't include the overhaul of the airframe and other parts of the upgrades, which only Dassault could had been done. So instead of splitting the upgrade to 2 sources, they decided for one, which clearly is the better decision, while weapons and parts of the techs are procurued in competitions. We already have decided for the SPICE 2000 and not the French AASM 1000, the competition for LDPs is still going on, so we basically only rejected the possibility of an Israeli radar and AAMs, which was the better choice too, since Python and Derby missiles can't be carried at the rear fuselage stations.

Because the western engines have more life than Russian once, which needed to be upgraded, while the M2Ks didn't.

There are answers for questions, but normally one first states these questions and gathers infos, before complaining about things, based on personal conclusions.

i think u need to brush up ur knowledge

there was a counter offer from hal-iai and it was rejected due to a useless law passed that debarred mlu from anyone except the oem of that particular equipment.go and check please

regarding engines they are not modern 4 th generation engine in mirage 2000,,,,its an old 3rd generation one whose 25 years have been over.do u wanna bet it will be good for 20 more years??think again

i am asking whats the point of refurbishing a 3 rd gen aeroplane to 4 th in 40 million??

there is nothing state of art even after this ugrade 

Why would the upgrade had been cheaper in 2005? Not the timeline but the required capability is important for the cost.

There was never a HAL-IAI consortium, nor a joint bid. Infact, most of the Israeli stuff that could be on offer are from Rafael, but that are only radar avionics and weapons, but doesn't include the overhaul of the airframe and other parts of the upgrades, which only Dassault could had been done. So instead of splitting the upgrade to 2 sources, they decided for one, which clearly is the better decision, while weapons and parts of the techs are procurued in competitions. We already have decided for the SPICE 2000 and not the French AASM 1000, the competition for LDPs is still going on, so we basically only rejected the possibility of an Israeli radar and AAMs, which was the better choice too, since Python and Derby missiles can't be carried at the rear fuselage stations.

Because the western engines have more life than Russian once, which needed to be upgraded, while the M2Ks didn't.

There are answers for questions, but normally one first states these questions and gathers infos, before complaining about things, based on personal conclusions.

are u willing to forego other blunders too done by indian govt?

1)getting new mig-29 k and kub without even a pesa radar and settling for a lowly zhuk-me??
2)no agreement on super sukhoi even till now?
3)even the new sukhoi produced have the same old bars pesa which is old,,,why not improve?
4)barak-8 delay when p-15 are ready?/
5)gorkshov without barak-8 so totally toothless for air attacks??
6)super slow submarine production and upgrade??
7)still using blind t-72 ans shunning arjuns??

the policy is flawed at the very top level and we are left wanting in everything

 

[sancho]

i think u need to brush up ur knowledge

there was a counter offer from hal-iai and it was rejected due to a useless law passed that debarred mlu from anyone except the oem of that particular equipment.go and check please

Do I? Who is the manufacturer of Litening LDP, Python V, Derby and SPICE PGMs? Rafael not IAI. So IAI can't offer most parts of the possible israeli goodies, just the radar basically, since the rest would have been taken from the French anyway. We are not talking about a Russian fighter here!

regarding engines they are not modern 4 th generation engine in mirage 2000,,,,its an old 3rd generation one whose 25 years have been over.do u wanna bet it will be good for 20 more years??think again

Funny, since neither the smoking RD33-3 series engines that our Mig 29UPG now gets are considered as modern 4th gen engines and still we had to buy them. Why? once because the newer RD 33MK couldn't be used on the older airframes, secondly because the older engines had no life left. So you are complaining again, without seeing the facts.

The rest was already discussed and has nothing to do with the MMRCA anyway, so let's stick to Rafale or MMRCA fighters here again.

 

[he-man]

Do I? Who is the manufacturer of Litening LDP, Python V, Derby and SPICE PGMs? Rafael not IAI. So IAI can't offer most parts of the possible israeli goodies, just the radar basically, since the rest would have been taken from the French anyway. We are not talking about a Russian fighter here!




Funny, since neither the smoking RD33-3 series engines that our Mig 29UPG now gets are considered as modern 4th gen engines and still we had to buy them. Why? once because the newer RD 33MK couldn't be used on the older airframes, secondly because the older engines had no life left. So you are complaining again, without seeing the facts.

The rest was already discussed and has nothing to do with the MMRCA anyway, so let's stick to Rafale or MMRCA fighters here again.

all right maybe rafael was involved too

but its 100 percent true man,,,there was a counter offer for sure rejected on dubious grounds

 

[he-man]

found this on the spectra

can anybody tell me about the jammer shown here??

so it means rafale dosen't need a dedicated podded jammer??

 

[Dillinger]

found this on the spectra

can anybody tell me about the jammer shown here??

so it means rafale dosen't need a dedicated podded jammer??

Now that you've posted this can you spot your error regarding the Spectra? The above details should lead you in the right direction.

For DOA/ADF and against certain ADGE ground components, yes the Rafale will not need a dedicated jamming pod.

 

[he-man]

Now that you've posted this can you spot your error regarding the Spectra? The above details should lead you in the right direction.

For DOA/ADF and against certain ADGE ground components, yes the Rafale will not need a dedicated jamming pod.

is this jammer comparable to sap 18??

 

[Dillinger]

is this jammer comparable to sap 18??

That is not even remotely of consequence, but if you must ask- then comparable in which parameter or function?

 

[he-man]

That is not even remotely of consequence, but if you must ask- then comparable in which parameter or function?

we have no info on operating frequencies of rafale in built jammer

on a diff note though even su-35 has a tail jammer

 

[Dillinger]

we have no info on operating frequencies of rafale in built jammer

on a diff note though even su-35 has a tail jammer

AND that is why I explained in detail the difference between a SPJ and a proper EW suite in the other thread.

On topic, now that you have posted the SPECTRA's information can you spot the flaw in your statements- for eg. "till we get ddm-ng rafale will be useless against aesas the point remains" (My problem with Rafale, lets start with Radar | Page 6)

The DDM-NG is an acronym, expand it and you get- "Détecteur deDépart Missile Nouvelle Génération".
Its a missile approach detector operating in the IR spectrum. It has absolutely nothing to do with AESA radars- it does not even operate in that specific spectrum.

This should help you-

There are so many of your posts which are peppered with errors along with your assertion at every step that you know what you are talking about. Try to be a bit more open when you come up to PDF and a little patient.

 

[sancho]

all right maybe rafael was involved too

but its 100 percent true man,,,there was a counter offer for sure rejected on dubious grounds

I told you as well that there was an Israeli offer, but not from IAI and not to counter the upgrade in general, since it couldn't include the overhaul of the fighters and stuff that had to be done in France anyway. It only included an alternative radar, partially avionics and weapons.

can anybody tell me about the jammer shown here??

so it means rafale dosen't need a dedicated podded jammer??

That is the rear AESA jammer of the SPECTRA suit, it has 2 more in front of the canards, to offer 360° coverage.

The latest F3+ version has upgraded jammers with GaN AESA modules, for improved jamming capabilities, which would be part of our Rafales.

DrSomnath999 had collected many infos too:
RAFALE'S MINI ENCYLOPEDIA FOR IT'S FANBOYZ

 

[sancho]

Infos to Meteor missile:

 

[DacterSaab]

does anyone know if litening will be integrated to indian rafales or they will carry damocles? and will we go for Meteors on our rafale or if Astra will be integrated?

 

[ptltejas]

owesome maneuvers of Eurofighter definitely.

 

[he-man]

owesome maneuvers of Eurofighter definitely.

its better in air but has 0 air-to ground mode
also no sensor fusion and no aesa(as of now)

 

[Taygibay]

No one can talk about equipment for the Indian Rafales for now, DacterSaab! We may venture guesses but that's pretty much it.
Consider that the deal is under negotiation so that any revealing information could jeopardize the results?
What we have heard so far that makes sense is that the Kh-31PM might come along. The reason to give credit to that is that French AdlA has edicted doctrines for tactical use that do not require the use of ARMs since Spectra can find the radar targets and AASM is able to find those. This is a doctrinal choice however? If the IAF is more familiar with the use of ARMs and chooses to have them in inventory for the MMRCA., then the logical choice is the Russian one as it is already available to them.

The only further truth that I can safely state is that there will be differences from the French Rafales. Dassault acknowledged that in a recent communique. For instance, there is to be a HMD for those. The Topsight-I from Samtel-Thales present onboard the MiG-29s and M2K_Hs. This equipment is still not planned for the French AF although pilots voiced an inclination towards it but the govt decided to put it on the back-burner and use the cash for what it deemed to be more pressing developments.

We'll have to wait for the Deal to pass to acquire more certainties? Of course, you'll hear troll A or self-appointed expert B say they now this or that for sure but that will be noise only!
The truth lays in the IAF requirements and negotiations teams, period.

Until then, good day to you and all, Tay.

P.S. @he-man, let's not be too harsh, Typhies can drop dumb bombs and drop any ordinance with a downward link if illuminated by another AC; they did so in Lybia?
Of course, until the second set of post-PE1 improvements are made, it can't do more? Which is interesting as if it was to be called back to MMRCA deal, the negos would run on potential capabilities? IE The 2018 version should be able to do what was asked of it by the IAF? I wonder how much this hypothetical framework would hasten ( or not ) negos? Still, provisional plans do call for the AESA and Storm Shadow to be available by 2017-18 or not much later? GL to our British cousins with that.