Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[nitesh]

One more reason I can see that Typhoon not get selected is that the countries developing it are reducing the numbers so the funding for future upgrades and all has to be done by India. Same can be said about Rafale but France has plans to operate this bird for quite a lot of time. I see the countries invested in typhoon moving towards JSF.

 

[aditya_friend]

One more reason I can see that Typhoon not get selected is that the countries developing it are reducing the numbers so the funding for future upgrades and all has to be done by India. Same can be said about Rafale but France has plans to operate this bird for quite a lot of time. I see the countries invested in typhoon moving towards JSF.

but sir the price is ridiculouly high (comparable to f-22 .)

i also wanted to ask that is india going to get 126 or 200 fighters.?

 

[nitesh]

but sir the price is ridiculouly high (comparable to f-22 .)

i also wanted to ask that is india going to get 126 or 200 fighters.?

Please don't use the BOLD word ok

Last I check it is priced as 122 million dollars. But if they win the deal then the manufacturing has to happen in India for at least 108 fighters (18 to be delivered by the contract winner). 74 is optional. If we want we will buy it.

Manufacturing cost is low in India as compared to the original countries where it is getting manufactured.

Also it's simple if you want to win in a competition you need to meet the specifications led down byy the buyer isn't it

 

[imiakhtar]

Please don't use the BOLD word ok

Last I check it is priced as 122 million dollars.

Are you referring to the Eurofighter or F-22.

If you are referring to the eurofighter then you are incorrect. It is commonly spouted in almost every media outlet that the UK is paying £60million (circa $120million) per fighter. This is incorrect.

In a leaked report, it was revealed that the Austrian govt. paid the equivalent of 61 million Euros or around $85million per fighter, that was including spares, tooling and technical support.

 

[santa cruz slugg]

With the dwindling squadron levels I wouldn't be surprised if your government went ahead with the option for more aircraft. They need it badly. Hopefully they are smart and have the deal signed by the end of the year.

Also no one is taking into account the 50 percent offset clause, when considering the aircraft price. Whichever aircraft wins a lot of work would be outsourced to India for it. Thus reducing the production price for the aircraft and its way cheaper to build the plane in India than it is in Europe (you don't have to pay the workers as much).
Also, people fail to notice that the Super Hornet originally was similar in price to the Eurofighter but Boeing reduced the price drastically (100 million + to 55 million+) to meet the offset clause and to be more competitive.
Lastly, the 120 million price reflects the current cost but if India buys the aircraft and Saudi Arabia orders more (rumor) the price would go down b/c an additional 200+ aircraft would be created.

 

[nitesh]

Are you referring to the Eurofighter or F-22.

If you are referring to the eurofighter then you are incorrect. It is commonly spouted in almost every media outlet that the UK is paying £60million (circa $120million) per fighter. This is incorrect.

In a leaked report, it was revealed that the Austrian govt. paid the equivalent of 61 million Euros or around $85million per fighter, that was including spares, tooling and technical support.

Boss have you checked the 3 letter word that I mde BOLD.

I know that companies are not fools that they are getting in to the competition without even getting the calculation about there cost structure and profitability. Hence which ever competitor is there knows they can fit in the bill and then only came for competitiion.

 

[nitesh]

this is interesting,

Computer virus 'grounds French fighter planes'- LATEST NEWS-The Economic Times

Computer virus 'grounds French fighter planes'
8 Feb 2009, 1333 hrs IST, PTI

LONDON: A virus attack on French military computers has grounded the nation's naval fighter planes after pilots failed to download their flight plans, media reports in France said.

According to the 'Liberation' newspaper, the virus infected the Navy's flight databases and Rafale aircraft were "nailed to the ground" on January 15 and 16 because they were unable to "download their flight plans".

Though Microsoft had warned several months beforehand that the "Conficker" virus, transmitted through Windows, was attacking computers, media reports claimed the French military ignored the warning and failed to take the necessary measures, British newspaper 'The Sunday Telegraph' reported.

However, the French Navy has admitted that during the time it took to eradicate the virus, it had to return to more traditional forms of communication – telephone, fax and post.

"It affected exchanges of information but no information was lost. It was a security problem we had already simulated. We cut the communication links that could have transmitted the virus and 99 per cent of the network is safe," Navy spokesman Jerome Erulin told 'Ouest France' newspaper.

In fact, the virus attacked the non-secured internal French navy network called Intramar and was detected on 21 January. The whole network was affected and military staff were instructed not to start their computers.

According to the 'Liberation', two days later the chiefs of staff decided to isolate Intramar from military's other computer systems, but certain computers at Villacoublay air base and in the 8th Transmissions Regiment were infected.

However, naval officials said that the "infection" was probably due more to negligence than a deliberate attempt to compromise French national security. "The computer virus problem had no effect on availability of our forces."

 

[aditya_friend]

nitesh dont you think that rafale will be the best choice .
also plz enlighten me that why would india refuse to mig-35 as it is the best aircraft ( in terms performance and price )offered .

 

[nitesh]

nitesh dont you think that rafale will be the best choice .
also plz enlighten me that why would india refuse to mig-35 as it is the best aircraft ( in terms performance and price )offered .

aditya the answer is complex. First let's understand what this particular deal is all about. The deal is not just about getting a plane. The deal is about getting a plane which gives a right mix of weapon systems standardization of weapon systems in a long run. And above all which serves the geo strategic objectives in best way in long run. Now let's be honest here all the planes which are in competition are excellent birds no doubt about that. MiG35 has less chance because it will make our fleet more to look like Russian fleet .

Coming to rafale it's an excellent bird but only French air force operates it. So if we chose this bird the later upgrades have to be funded by us. That will add a substantial cost in terms of life cycle.

It's not only about procurement but also about life cycle cost isn't it

 

[santa cruz slugg]

mig-35 as it is the best aircraft ( in terms performance and price )offered

The Mig-35 is not the best aircraft. Price wise it still isn't (Grippen NG is cheaper and more capable) The problem is Russia would literally control all of India's main fighters except the Jaguars and the Mirages. That is too big of a risk for the government to take considering how weapons purchases have been going the last couple of years. After you knock out the Grippen (similar to LCA) Mig-35, and F-16 Block 70 the three short-listed aircraft should be the Super Hornet, Rafale, and Eurofighter. After that it becomes a who can offer more.
EADS is offering India to be a Full Partner in EADS- huge opportunity for future development
Rafale is offering FUll TOT and source codes (which is huge), would never impose sanctions.
Super Hornet isn't really offering a whole lot but if the offer the Growler then the Hornet should win very easily b/c the Growler would be able to Jam most of the Pakistani Aircraft.

 

[nitesh]

India, Russia enter into $600m JV to develop new aircraft-India-The Times of India

On Mig-35 not being inducted in Russian Air Force and its "negative impact" on India's request for proposals which requires the aircraft to be serviceable in India, Fedorov said, "I understand... India... disappointed", but declined to elaborate.

I can sense trouble what you guys say

 

[zombie:-)]

India, Russia enter into $600m JV to develop new aircraft-India-The Times of India


I can sense trouble what you guys say

FINALLY SOME NEWS ON MRTA

some PS

think it will replace an-26 which the IAF currently operates about 96 nos.

 

[LCA]

India, Russia enter into $600m JV to develop new aircraft-India-The Times of India


I can sense trouble what you guys say

Definitely, it will make negative impact.Because india want faster delivery of jets.

 

[ejaz007]

Saab Pushes Independence Card in Indian Fighter Contest
By pierre tran
Published: 12 Feb 13:44 EST (18:44 GMT)

BANGALORE, India - The team marketing the Gripen warplane from Saab highlighted technology transfer as delivering independence in India's fiercely fought competition for 126 modern fighters under the Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender.

Asked how the Gripen could be billed as "the independent choice," as headlined in billboards advertising the fighter at the Aero India show - thought its engines are built by General Dynamics and potentially subject to U.S. export control - Bob Kemp, senior vice president for sales and marketing at Gripen International, said there are always restrictions of some type, whether from the U.N. or individual governments.

Saab's approach is to transfer technology, allowing customers to maintain and operate their aircraft autonomously. The use of a U.S.-built engine on India's Light Combat Aircraft does not infringe upon Indian autonomy, he said.

Saab offers customers the "freedom of choice" through agreements on transfer of technology, Kemp said.

In a round up of export campaigns for the single-engined Gripen, Kemp said Brazil has short-listed the Swedish fighter, along with Dassault Aviation's Rafale and Boeing F-18 E/F, eliminating the Eurofighter Typhoon and Lockheed Martin F-16. A decision in that contest is expected around June.

An initial batch of 36 jets could lead to a total Brazilian buy of 120 aircraft, he said.

The Gripen boasts network-centric capabilities - which allow data sharing between aircraft, land and sea assets - and a low operating cost, estimated at half that of a single-engined fighter like the F-16.

In all the competitions of the last few years, "the cost of ownership is a major driver," Kemp said.

Saab Pushes Independence Card in Indian Fighter Contest - Aero India - 2009

 

[LCA]

LiveFist: Update: The MMRCA "FET" Plan

Update: The MMRCA "FET" Plan
Flight evaluation tests (FET) of the six medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) kicks off officially in April. The six contenders from been asked to bring three aircraft to India for the month-long session. The IAF will designate three evaluation teams, each of which will try out two aircraft from each competitor. The trials kick off with handling and aerodynamic performance trials under the aegis of the ASTE in Bangalore. In early May, the fighters will be flown to Jaisalmer for hot weather desert trials. Finally, they'll move to Leh for high altitude trials involving a pair of aircraft from each competitor. Starting around September, evaluation teams from the IAF will visit the country of origin of each competing fighter for systems trials, which includes demonstration and testing of radar, EW suites, avionics, cockpit gear, countermeasures, weapons and weapon systems and communication integration.