Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[raavan]

rafale will win. France will help us with nuclear power and engine as well.

 

[luckyyy]

rafale will win. France will help us with nuclear power and engine as well.

keep dreaming , they not even ready for LCH engine..

 

[Taygibay]

keep dreaming , they not even ready for LCH engine..

I suppose that you are referring to the Indian industry, Luckyyy?
Your post was not clear on that

Because if you meant that France is not ready to produce or sell or export
helicopter turbines, you should not be posting in military forums at all

If the former interpretation is what you meant,
it is up to India to become more serious and
stringent on manufacturing processes and materials.
But it can be learned and done.

Good day all, Tay.

 

[sancho]

I suppose that you are referring to the Indian industry, Luckyyy?
Your post was not clear on that

Because if you meant that France is not ready to produce or sell or export
helicopter turbines, you should not be posting in military forums at all

I guess he is talking about the issue that Snecma asked for too much money to redesign the Shakti engine (which is currently used by Dhruv and LCH prototypes), to be used in HALs new LUH, that is under development. That's indeed a downer, because that will have an influence in the decision to buy Eurocopters Fennec too, but has nothing to do with the Kaveri engine at all, because Snecma/France is proposing that co-development since years and the only reason that we didn't fixed it yet was the dream of getting Kaveri engine ready alone.
Actually, the fact that besides the Russians, France is the only country that reportedly has offered an engine co-development so far, is one of the reasons why I highly prefer deeper ties with the French industry. It might be expensive, but there is no western alternative to them, when our aim is to get as much ToT as possible, or co-develop indigenous arms & techs. Kaveri engine is one example, the Maitri SAM co-development is another, both are mainly Indian developments with French industry getting involved with their techs, know how and experience. In contrast to that, Brahmos, MRTA, FGFA, or even Barak SAM are Russian/Israeli developments, where we joint and has some parts in it, but that exactly shows that we have other and imo better solutions than going for fully indigenous developments, which are more difficult (as we learned the hard way with the engine and radar developments of LCA that failed) and takes way more time - co-developments, based on Indian requirements!
The most successful "Indian" development is still the Dhruv, which was developed for India and according to Indian requirements, but with German and French development partners!!! We should have followed that way instead with LCA too and would now be at a way different stage and that's why I hope that besides the selection of Dassaults Rafale, there could be some co-development deal with France/Dassault on the AURA UCAV as well.
Co-developments are the way forward for India, because we have the access to Russian, Israeli and several European partners, that are ready to share their techs, a crucial advantage over any of our opponents!

 

[nomi007]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

 

[jha]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

Unlike Pakistan, We dont need to play Zero Sum game...

 

[SpArK]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

oh okayyy..

France is not in EU now..

 

[satishkumarcsc]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

Whatever aircraft is chosen MBDA is going to supply weapons for it.

 

[Black Widow]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

Eureka!!!! You found something. We didn't buy MiG35, Russia is angry on us. So does America as we didnot select from F16 and 18... Are you out of mind???? No one take it so hard... Its all about Business, there is no place of emotion in it...

Its not your fault, you brother are emotional, thats why you show emotion while replying to thread...

 

[Vibs]

mmrca will set future partners of India
if selects France than EU will be angry if select ef-2000 than France will be angry

Unlikely. Aircrafts are not the only defence items India is buying. There is a whole gamut of areas where they can come in. There is hype behind this deal because of the sheer numbers involved.

 

[SpArK]

Tough bargaining ahead for India’s MMRCA winner

​

Sat, Oct 22, 2011 15:35 CET


The two finalists in India’s Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) aircraft deal, Eurofighter and Dassault, will have to be prepared for tough bargaining at the price negotiation stage as a rise in the value of the Euro Vs the Indian currency has pushed up the Rupee value of their bid by an estimated 15% in the last one year.

Following the acceptance of the offsets proposals of the two bidders a fortnight ago, the only remaining formality is the opening of the envelopes containing the commercial bids and announcing the lowest bidder which will walk away with the estimated $1.2 billion prize.

The lowest bidder will then be called for further talks called price negotiations to be held by the price negotiations committee.

It is at this stage that the final price will be decided and tough bargaining will ensue. India has in the past let go of defence contracts as talks have broken down at the final price negotiation stage with the winning bidder. Cases to point are Airbus Industrie and Eurocopter both of which had to back off after being selected as winners, as the Indian Finance Ministry found their final price too expensive.

“Even after the final winner is announced, it is still touch and go”, said an industry source to Defenseworld.net. “There is no finality that the lowest bidder will get the deal if India’s Finance Ministry which holds the purse strings objects to any part of the financial commitment. The Euro value rise will be an important element to discuss as a 15%-18% rise in the last 18 months means that order price has increased by over a billion Euros”.

It may be recalled that in mid-2009, the MMRCA bidders have had to submit fresh bids as the two year validity of their commercial bids had expired then and a couple of the bidders had told defenseworld.net then “ the purpose of submitting fresh commercial bids is to take into account price escalation” adding that “the best value at current prices has been offered to India”, which means that a price rise has been effected in the new bids.


Tough bargaining ahead for India’s MMRCA winner : Defense news

 

[the rafter]

France in final talks on UAE Rafale sale

France is in late-stage talks to sell Dassault Aviation-built Rafale fighter jets to the United Arab Emirates, Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said on LCI television on Monday. ”We are in final discussions,” Longuet said.Asked how likely it was the deal would be completed, he said: “It’s extremely probable.”

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has handed the reins to sealing the deal with the UAE to his foreign minister, Alain Juppe, in the hope of concluding a deal by the end of the year.

The UAE has been in talks with Dassault since 2008 over the purchase of 60 Rafale jets, estimated at $10 billion, to replace the fleet of Mirage 2000s they bought in 1983.

The French company has still not found a foreign buyer for the multi-role Rafale, billed as one of the most effective but also one of the most expensive fighter jets in the world.

“It’s a big deal for a country when it equips its air force for 40 years, so the buyer has conditions and the industrial firm is defending its interests. That’s obvious.” Longuet said.

The aircraft-maker had come close to securing a multi-billion-dollar Rafale deal with Brazil, but the Brazilian government has delayed its decision until 2012.
http://idrw.org/?p=4703

If UAE is paying 10 billion for 60 Rafale jets, then how much will it cost India to get 126 or even 200? Definitely more than $10 billion

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

If UAE is paying 10 billion for 60 Rafale jets, then how much will it cost India to get 126 or even 200? Definitely more than $10 billion

I don't know what the GoI has in mind . The EF typhoon is even more expensive

 

[sancho]

If UAE is paying 10 billion for 60 Rafale jets, then how much will it cost India to get 126 or even 200? Definitely more than $10 billion

Don't forget that this ammount includes not only low numbers of fighters (which makes the unit cost higher), but that they also will be completelly produced in France and that it most likely includes fundings for some of the changes the UAE wanted. So you can't really translate this figure to the MMRCA, but even I wouldn't be surprised if the final deal will be costlier, but as long as the outcome for Indian forces and Indian industry is worth it, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Trucker]

Don't forget that this ammount includes not only low numbers of fighters (which makes the unit cost higher), but that they also will be completelly produced in France and that it most likely includes fundings for some of the changes the UAE wanted. So you can't really translate this figure to the MMRCA, but even I wouldn't be surprised if the final deal will be costlier, but as long as the outcome for Indian forces and Indian industry is worth it, I don't have a problem with that.

weapons included in 10 billion dollar bill??if this goes,atleast indian mmrca will be above 17 billion including more 63 extra without weapons.i think govt has offset upto 14-15 billion dollar total.so there are chances of cancelling and chance of hornets but again tot will be an issue with hornets.