Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Eurofighter IN]

That is incorrect the F-18's IRST is USDA certified.

As of now the F18 does not have internal IRST capability instead relying on it's AESA, IRST is one of the requirements of the MRCA.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

As of now the F18 does not have internal IRST capability instead relying on it's AESA, IRST is one of the requirements of the MRCA.

It could add that easily enough. Neither the Eurofighter or Rafale have AESA yet. Is that not part of the MRCA requirements?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

most probabaly F-16/18 were not offered to their full potential in the MMRCA and the aircrafts were restricted to the extent at which it just fullfill the minimum requirments of the tandor...

Elaborate please.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

most probabaly F-16/18 were not offered to their full potential in the MMRCA and the aircrafts were restricted to the extent at which it just fullfill the minimum requirments of the tandor...

F-18 doesn't have much future value left in it. IMO, IAF is looking at future here.

On requirements, you are right. That looks like one of the factor here which played against F-18. So, we shouldn't put all blame on technicians behind F-18. Rather, USA is still not sure how to engage India. They are still trapped in Cold-war mentality.

 

[Eurofighter IN]

It could add that easily enough. Neither the Eurofighter or Rafale have AESA yet. Is that not part of the MRCA requirements?

That woud have been a option if India had selected the plane but it would also have meant the unit price would be higher, both the EF and the Rafale have a funded AESA program already in swing today.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

It could add that easily enough. Neither the Eurofighter or Rafale have AESA yet. Is that not part of the MRCA requirements?

That remains on paper. Unfortunately for some, MRCA trials considered only those capabilities which exist on ground.

 

[kingdurgaking]

The US builds a lot of things it never fields. That does not mean they are not just as capable however. Eg the YF 23 was stealthier than the YF 22 but was not fielded due to lesser maneuverability.

Unless someone actually has an anechoic chamber and the aircraft they can only speculate as they would not be capable of predicting how certain features on an aircraft interacts.

hmmm the one you have mentioned was not even built or kept under wraps.. because it was very complex...

Secondly it is a very a artistic impression and not the real one..(you have any proof to state it was the original image) because

in F-35 competition only two where actually given funds to develop prototypes (they are boeing and LM)..

Others are asked to give detailed graphical.. and Northrop was rejected because of the complexities as it was not given opportunity like YF-23...

secondly there is no proof to stay that this proto type will lie in VLO band of spectrum but chance of moving to LO band spectrum is more...


Canards was a very wide discussion... just google and check... Canards are the most bad element of stealth...

Rafale and EFT have 1-2 m2 of RCS because of canards which was the main element of radar reflection... so J-20 it is very difficult to imagine that it will be in VLO of the league of Raptor and B-2 but yes it is under LO spectrum RCS less that 0.1m2 ..

 

[MumbaiIndians]

IMO, J-20 will be a surprise. It will come out far better than any contender out there from west and europe. Specially because China has kept R&D heavily home-grown. Chinese will improve in areas where west has failed.

 

[dbc]

Why I would slander some agriculture guy for F-18's loss in MRCA? I am not even american.

Only someone like DBC would do that for saving face. I only picked on her childish attempt. Quite immature of her to defend it that way.

lol The F/A-18 does not need defending, stop talking about the F-18 and droll over your Euro fighter.

 

[Hulk]

IMO, J-20 will be a surprise. It will come out far better than any contender out there from west and europe. Specially because China has kept R&D heavily home-grown. Chinese will improve in areas where west has failed.

If you feel such with DBC, do start a discussion on Planes with her you will realize what she is made off. She has lot of respect in this forum, including from Indians.

 

[sancho]

I still wonder why they didn't go for the super hornet. Of all the contestants the super hornet was the stealthiest.

The fact that it could carry weapons in a stealth optimized pod, and had engine blockers meant it had a huge advantage over the other contestants.

Because that's only a dream Boeing has, if somebody will be ready to fund it. The fact is nothing of the international road map is developed now and that's why Boeing officials themself stated that only the EPE engine upgrade and the additional sensors are on offer for India!
The weapon pod (that carries only some weapons inside WVR missiles are still on the wingtips), the new cockpit with touchscreens, the integrated IRST... will only be developed (as demo versions) for the competition in Japan, where the Super Hornet has to compete against the F35.

 

[sancho]

Impacts of the Indian Fighter Competition

by Robbin Laird

05/16/2011 India is clearly a key player in shaping the future of Chinese power, globally and in the Pacific. At the same time, the significant 2nd and 3rd world fighter market will be dominated by exports from China, Russia, India or Brazil...


...The Eurofighter Factor

What are the strategic potentials of a Eurofighter in India from an industrial point of view? Much depends on what India is able to do and can re-organize itself to do. If properly organized, India could shape a significant aerospace future and Eurofighter could become a key stimulant to such a future.

The collaboration necessary to make Eurofighter work in India – with significant local support – requires more than simply transferring technology. It requires in effect a European and Indian concurrent engineering process. If such a process can be shaped in the period of constructing, enabling and supporting an Indian Eurofighter then several other possibilities emerge.

An Indian-European congruent engineering capability could shape the future of exports from India to the second and third world combat aircraft markets. Here European engineering excellence combined with Indian manufacturing capabilities and IT excellence could create a global gamechanger. Not exactly Tata Nanos for the aerospace market but you get the point.

The congruence could craft the next generation of manned European combat aircraft as well. Such an aircraft could be designed with the other innovations in mind with significant impact, namely 5th generation aircraft and remotely piloted aircraft (RPAs).

Then the possibility of working a sensor and processing enterprise across manned assets –combat aircraft and command and control aircraft – as well as RPAs can be envisaged. For different clients, different mixes of sensors and communication and management assets could be placed on the combat versus large aircraft versus UAV platforms. Such mix and match possibilities could drive serious innovation.

And finally, EADS as key Eurofighter company has other assets of interest to India, such as Airbus commercial and military Airbus platforms. A400Ms and A330 tankers could be in play, and notably related to the sensor enterprise discussed above. The air tanker is an especially interesting platform to include in the mix because of all the space inside the A330 tanker, which can be used for C2 and related options.

And of course, Airbus, unlike Boeing, has demonstrated a willingness to build overseas final assembly plants. The US after turning down the opportunity to build tankers in Mobile, Alabama, and freighters and future Airbus commercial products may be shocked to see such facilities some day in India.


The Rafale Factor

The French Rafale is one of the two European aircraft downselected in the Indian fighter competition. Although the plane has yet to win an export order, the flagship Dassault combat aircraft has progressed to the point that India as well as Brazil could seriously select it as their next generation combat aircraft.

A major advantage vis a vis Eurofighter is that the Indians already have in their Russian aircraft a higher altitude combat aircraft and in this way similar to Eurofighter. And when the Indians did not select the engine for their light combat aircraft from the consortium supplying the Eurofighter engine, many analysts assumed this meant that Eurofighter would not be downselected in the fighter competition. A GE engine was selected for the LCA.

The Rafale is a multi-mission aircraft closer to the F-16 or F-18 class aircraft than to the F-15 or the Eurofighter. Several Indian sources have made it clear to SLD that the class of aircraft, which the F-16 represents, is in the sweet spot of their needs.

As such, the Rafale has advantages.

The French Air Force and Navy have evolved the aircraft over the past few years in actual operational settings; as such the aircraft has demonstrated its multi-mission capabilities and ability to be supported in relatively austere settings.

The Rafale has been used effectively in combat operations, and demonstrated its ability for flexible operations.

Rafale has a naval version, which is clearly of interest to the Indian Navy and its evolution of carrier aviation.

There is a common concern of those countries, which have NOT selected Rafale, and that is the belief that the plane is underpowered. And this certainly is not the case with the Eurofighter. Might this mean that the SNECMA engine could be replaced in favor of a GE-Snecma variant yet to be determined? Or do the French and Indians work on a new engine? Or that simply the aircraft continues as it is in the competition and if it wins, continues the course?

A Dassault-Thales team would be at the heart of any alliance with the Indians in shaping the future of Rafale. Thales as a global company could become significantly enhanced in its ability to shape price competitive products with such an alliance, and be well positioned in the next decades both for products in the second and third world as well as working a new basis for R and D and manufacturing in their European operations.

Impacts of the Indian Fighter Competition | SLDInfo


Basically confirms that the advantages of EF for India are mainly on the industrial / offest side, while Rafale is what the Indian forces needs and wants!

 

[kish]

Why I would slander some agriculture guy for F-18's loss in MRCA? I am not even american.

Only someone like DBC would do that for saving face. I only picked on her childish attempt. Quite immature of her to defend it that way.

Go through post made by DBC . . . U will found his contribution is really good.

 

[udiptoghsh]

which would b a better buy...rafael..or eurofighter typhoon?????

 

[Jon Snow]

sorry, wrong thread