Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Just Yash]

But not everybody has fallen into the JSF trap, and there still are countries left that would rather select their new combat aircraft after taking a very close look at their performance first, before moving to discuss the price. The (preliminary) results of the Indian MMRCA competition tell the world that if you want the best, and your pockets are deep enough, with the F-22 out of the fray and the F-35 still years away, you will want to go for either the Rafale or the Typhoon.

i like the above lines in the article

According to Many experts F-35 is going to very bed aircraft. Very Slow, Slugish.... if it comes to dogfight then it's game over for F-35.

By expert means real Experts ( Those who work in design of F-16 and A-10). see below Video

This guy comes in Military channel's top ten List Show for Best Aircraft in Discovery and History channel

and

It' also question the real effactivnenes of Stealth Plane. Thant's why in terms of Aerodynamic Our PAKFA design is much much better then F-35.

 

[Ammyy]

assessing them against each other on a list, that included some 650 parameters. It is highly dubious whether any other air force in the world ever had the chance to perform a similar process,

IAF now give suggestions to others about all these 6 fighters

 

[deepakclaw]

can any 1 tell me what is the max sanctioned number( not the squadron numbers) combat air crafts in Indian and Pakistani air force resp....

 

[sancho]

MMRCA J'anes according to Defense


http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ef-rafale-mmrca-shortlist-90.html#post1731947

 

[the rafter]

Typhoons billions over budget:

* Costlier than Rafale
* A to G maturation by 2018

 

[SpArK]

Disappointed in India, Boeing and Lockheed Martin Eye Other Fighter Requirements

U.S. defense contractors eliminated from the $10 billion competition to provide India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) cite several other international programs and competitions as opportunities for their respective platforms. But the start of Japan's F-X contest in April and fighter requirements in countries including Denmark, Malaysia and Brazil did nothing to mask the clear disappointment expressed by U.S. Ambassador to India Timothy Roemer and contractors Boeing and Lockheed Martin, over India's down-select decision.

The Indian Defence Ministry on April 28 said it had short-listed the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon for the MMRCA requirement, eliminating Boeing's F/A-18IN Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16 as well as the Saab Gripen and Mikoyan MiG-35. Roemer resigned as ambassador to New Delhi the same day, although reportedly his decision predated the down select choice.

Lockheed Martin is contracted to produce the F-16 through mid-2013. Deliveries under the 126-aircraft MMRCA program would have started in 2015 or beyond, extending F-16 production.

"It's certainly a loss; let's not sugarcoat it," said Bill McHenry, Lockheed Martin director of business development for F-16 programs. "We were spending a lot of effort and a lot of time. We took the Indian competition seriously and we were planning on those aircraft."



Nevertheless, Lockheed Martin is set to provide F-16s under Foreign Military Sales to Iraq and Oman. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) in September notified Congress of the Obama administration's intent to sell 18 F-16IQs to Iraq, a sale worth $4.2 billion with associated equipment and services. DSCA notified Congress in August of the intent to sell 18 Block 50/52 F-16s to Oman in a transaction valued at $3.5 billion.

India was the first international competition in which Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet was offered. Australia has ordered 24 tandem-seat F/A-18Fs as an interim step to Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II.

"We have work with the U.S. Navy going on that guarantees [Super Hornet] production to 2015," said a Boeing spokeswoman. Beyond that, she said, Boeing plans to compete for Japan's F-X requirement, for which bids are due in September, and fighter acquisitions by Brazil, Denmark, Malaysia and unidentified Middle Eastern countries.McHenry said Lockheed Martin is offering either the F-16 or F-35 for many of the same competitions.


[urlhttp://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/disappointed-in-india-boeing-and-lockheed-martin-eye-other-fighter-requirements-29532/][/url]

 

[bhagat]

Comment: India's MMRCA shortlist backs substance over style

When it comes to news value, India's $10 billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest never seems to disappoint. In keeping with this trend, the confirmation of its shortlist for the 126-aircraft deal, which emerged not from its defence ministry but via local bloggers and the defeated bidders themselves, delivered the expected level of drama.
US companies Boeing and Lockheed Martin grabbed most of the local headlines at February's Aero India show near Bengaluru by flying a Who's Who-quality list of Indian celebrities, including a Bollywood actor, industrialist Ratan Tata (pictured below) and media hard-hitters in their Super Hornet and F-16 products.
Saab used massive billboard posters and gave a local student the experience of a lifetime after he won a "Top Gun" contest to fly in the Gripen, but the RSK MiG-35 no-showed, presumably because Russia and India had already signed a deal to jointly develop a fifth-generation fighter based on Sukhoi's stealthy PAK-FA.

Keeping a lower profile were Dassault and the four-nation Eurofighter consortium, with one involved source commenting: "You don't need a gimmick when you've got the best fighter." Ironic then that it is Europe's Rafale and Typhoon designs which remain in contention for the massive MMRCA prize.
The USA has been rocked by the elimination of the F-16 (always a long-shot due to its operation by neighbouring Pakistan), and even more so by claims that the Super Hornet failed to meet India's technical requirements. Boeing officials were certain that the US Navy's main strike fighter would be toughing it out with the Rafale and Typhoon when the shortlist emerged, and the Department of Defense's reaction of being "deeply disappointed" was a massive understatement.
Clarity on the reasons behind New Delhi's larger-than-expected MMRCA cull will come soon if the defeated bidders choose to comment after receiving formal debriefings. But its surprise action - and the real likelihood of a selection being made before extended bids expire on 31 December - makes it clear that its programme does have more to do with operational capability and technology transfer than column inches.
June's Paris air show will provide the next forum for Dassault and Eurofighter to tout the merits of their well-matched candidates, which are now in combat use over Libya for France and the UK. Thankfully, their marketing agendas are unlikely to have much regard for celebrity passengers.
Comment: India's MMRCA shortlist backs substance over style

 

[sancho]

India Shifts Allegiance From Russia To Europe


NEW DELHI — India is slowly shifting its allegiance from its traditional arms suppliers in Russia toward other European firms.

The country last month rejected Russia’s bid to sell India its MiG-35 fighter jets in the largest arms tender of this century. India also declined Boeing and Lockheed Martin’s bids for the $11 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft contract. The final contenders to deliver 126 jets are the Rafale, made by France’s Dassault Aviation, and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Senior Indian Air Force (IAF) officials say Russia’s Rosoboronexport and MiG design bureau were informed about the perceived drawbacks of the Russian offer, which included the engines. “The Russian technologies did not fit the program,” an official says, without elaborating.

In another snub of Russia, for the first time the IAF has decided to look beyond Moscow for spares for its inventory of Russian systems. India’s defense ministry recently issued global tenders worth several million dollars to international suppliers to reload its stocks of spares for its Russian-made MiG-23, MiG-27 and MiG-29 combat aircraft; IL-76 heavy-lift transports; IL-78 midair refuelers; all Mi-series helicopters; Pechora and OSA-AK air defense missiles and P-18 and P-19 radars.

The IAF has pointed out that delays in Russian after-sales support for military equipment are hurting the country’s battle readiness. “India has long leaned on Russia to equip its armed forces with military hardware. But Russia doesn’t have it all together to supply in one go anymore,” a senior IAF official tells Aviation Week.

The IAF also has problems with the serviceability of its MiG series, leading to the government informing parliament in February that it was planning to phase out the accident-prone fighter jets by 2017, when modern aircraft would be inducted.

“Many more such tenders are in the pipeline,” the IAF officials says.

But the change in stance also signifies a significant step in the government’s efforts to strengthen its rapidly depleting air power and ensure it is ready to meet the challenge of combating a resurgent China and an ambitious Pakistan.

The Indian army also has issued a request for information for acquiring active protection and countermeasure systems for its T-90S main battle tanks.

“Supply of spare parts are an issue with Russia, and though we still depend on the original equipment manufacturer for specialized spare parts, we are forced to look outside Moscow for generalized spares at a better price,” an army official says.

India has been heavily reliant on Russia, which produces about 60% of the equipment used by the Indian armed forces. India has awarded its largest arms contracts to Russia during the recent decade, including its order for the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier and a group of MiG-29K jets for the vessel, as well as frigates and a rented submarine.

India also joined forces with Russia to build BrahMos cruise missiles, a fifth-generation fighter jet and the new MTA transport plane.

Ajay Lele, a former IAF wing commander who currently works with the New Delhi-based Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses, tells Aviation Week that India is exploring other options since its buying potential has increased and its nuclear market has also opened up.

“A country’s defense requirements cannot wait endlessly,” Lele says. “India wants hardware on [the] ground, hence it is looking for better technical options that include easy deliverables, state-of-[the]-art technology and economies of purchase.”

India has tripled its defense budget over the past decade – to $32 billion this year, the world’s 10th largest – in an attempt to foil a quadrupling of spending in the same period by neighboring China. The country is planning to spend $80 billion on defense in the next five years to acquire new equipment.

Kapil Kaul, chief executive of the Indian unit of consulting firm the Center for Asia-Pacific Aviation, says that geopolitical concerns are also being taken into account, as India looks to shore up relations with Europe. “[With the] European Union being an important political partner, India needs to balance the geopolitical impact,” Kaul says.

India Shifts Allegiance From Russia To Europe | AVIATION WEEK

 

[udiptoghsh]

WHATS THE LATEST STATUS OF THE M-MRCA DEAL????????????

 

[sancho]

WHATS THE LATEST STATUS OF THE M-MRCA DEAL????????????

Shortlisting done, all vendors will be informed about the outcome of the evaluations (possible renegotioations with vendors that complain), comercial bids of the shortlisted fighters will be renewed till december this year, final negotioations about costs, ToT, offsets and other advantages.
IAF Chief hopes for a final decision till summer, personally I expect it till the end of the year, media suggests it only by march next year, but with only 2 vendors left, I highly doubt that.

 

[sancho]

Indian Politician Says Sonia Gandhi Has Rigged M-MRCA Deal

If the Indian M-MRCA fighter competition wasn't quite surreal enough, in comes an Indian politician-economist, notably re-energized by his current association with India's "anti-corruption" movement and India's monumental telecom scam investigation, to stir the pot some more. A known fire-bomber with an unabashed antipathy to India's ruling Congress party, Subramanian Swamy has now apparently trained his ire at the IAF's $12-billion M-MRCA fighter deal.

Swamy, officially leader of the Janata Party, but best known for years as a voluble and dogged government baiter on all matters graft, says he has written to Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh making some very dramatic allegations. The letter (full text in image above) was written on April 29, two days after the dramatic M-MRCA elimination. Like all his letters, this one says that it draws on "inside information" from within the government. Let's get to the contents:

Swamy writes: "My sources indicate that the pre-determined decision to favour the French aircraft [Dassault's Rafale] was the outcome of several conversations between the wife of French President Ms. Carla Bruni and the Chairperson of the National Advisory Council Ms. Sonia Gandhi, and surprisingly also with two foreign nationals who are the sisters of Ms. Sonia Gandhi."

It is not clear what information Swamy has based his allegations on.

At the very least, it should be said that Subramanian Swamy was once quite aptly described by a leading news weekly as "the Professor Moriarty to Sonia's Sherlock Holmes", so there shouldn't be any real surprise that the target of his letter is specifically the Congress Party president. That said, the allegations he makes are indubitably explosive. Swamy's letter refers to "credible information" in his possession, but says nothing about what this credible information is. It is not clear if he has shared any further information with the Prime Minister apart from this letter.

The operative part of his letter goes: "Based on some credible information given to me on the conversation between Ms. Carla Bruni and Ms Sonia Gandhi’s sisters, there has been an agreement of the French to pay a hefty bribe for favouring the purchase of French aircrafts."

Interestingly, a popular Indian military commentator has made a slightly backhanded allusion to pretty much the same thing today. In this column published in today's Pioneer, Maj Gen (Retd) Ashok Mehta writes, "The IAF favours the Rafale not the least because the French are promising the moon. There is also a high level back channel Italian connection, they say." So either the columnist has read Subramanian Swamy's letter, or has his own "insiders", in which case, as you've no doubt guessed, we have two prominent Indian figures saying that the Rafale has already been chosen to win the M-MRCA competition, and that it took a high-level government connection -- Swamy names Sonia Gandhi, the Maj Gen her nationality -- to work it through.

It should be reiterated that neither of these controversial assertions has been backed in substance -- at least as far as I know -- in either the letter or the column. We'll have to see where this goes.

Livefist: Indian Politician Says Sonia Gandhi Has Rigged M-MRCA Deal

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^^ I'm sorry are you saying that Sonia Gandhi would be swayed in a $12 BILLION deal with a few conversations with some wives?!!??! This guy is just so anti-Congress that he will attack anything and EVERYTHING he thinks will weapon the GOVT. My words to him- STFU!! And anyway what sway does SG really have on IAF/MoD/"St" Antony? With Antony at the top and some straight shooting IAF brass in charge of MMRCA I'd say little to none. The Indian armed forces are incredibly apolitical and are not likely to bow in face of SG pressure. They are professionals and according to Antony the pick was made on merit- info from IAF.



But I do say the sooner SG gets lost the better. And she can take all her nepotistic BS with her!!

 

[sancho]

^^^ I'm sorry are you saying that Sonia Gandhi would be swayed in a $12 BILLION deal with a few conversations with some wives?!!??! This guy is just so anti-Congress that he will attack anything and EVERYTHING he thinks will weapon the GOVT. My words to him- STFU!! And anyway what sway does SG really have on IAF/MoD/"St" Antony? With Antony at the top and some straight shooting IAF brass in charge of MMRCA I'd say little to none. The Indian armed forces are incredibly apolitical and are not likely to bow in face of SG pressure. They are professionals and according to Antony the pick was made on merit- info from IAF.



But I do say the sooner SG gets lost the better. And she can take all her nepotistic BS with her!!

That's what I thougt as well, especially because I doubt that Carla Bruni have much knowledge about these fighters to talk about them, let alone advertise them. Also IF there would be an like it is said Italian connection, I would have expected her to have it with the Italy that is offering the EF, wouldn't that be more logical?

 

[sancho]

Indian Fighter Downselect Questions Remain


Perhaps it should come as no surprise, given India’s notoriety when it comes to defense procurement, that the downselect in its high-profile fighter competition has raised an unusual number of questions...

...Rather than naming Eurofighter and Dassault winners, the government asked them to extend the validity of their commercial bids till the end of the year and resubmit those documents by May 13. Bids expired at the end of April. The others were not asked to take that step.

The unusual procedure has some questioning what lies ahead. An official with one of the losing vendors says that “if the Typhoon and Rafale won this round on technical compliance and performance grounds, who says it’ll play out the same way on price? These planes are not cheap.”

With the defense ministry opting to choose between two of the most expensive fighters in the competition, there is a sense that negotiations could still fail, in light of the Indian defense establishment’s legendary sensitivity to unit price. “The known prices of the two final contenders could throw budgetary allocations for the MMRCA acquisition completely out of gear. The finance ministry won’t like that one single bit,” agrees an Indian air force officer who observed field trials of the six aircraft at the Leh air base in the Himalayas.

Saab CEO Hakan Bushke is even more explicit. “We are still offering the Indian government the Gripen,” he said after the company noted it was not selected. In these processes, there can be changes of direction, he added...

...As things stand, commercial bids of the two finalists will be reviewed and compared to a previously established benchmark price, with the offer closest to the figure deemed the lowest bidder. Discussions on the $4.75 billion in offsets will also take place.

The decision not to pick either of the U.S. competitors has also raised questions about whether New Delhi is sending Washington a political signal over technology transfer or other issues.
When asked if the Pentagon’s policy on transferring sensitive electronics and sensor codes played a role in the decision, an Indian officer says, “The request for proposals is very clear about what technologies and software we expect to be fully transferred. If certain vendors have put forward bids which are not compliant with that requirement as a result of their home government’s export and transfer policies, that is something the [defense ministry] has taken into account while making its decision.”...

Indian Fighter Downselect Questions Remain | AVIATION WEEK

 

[sancho]

Italy pushes Eurofighter as Turkey's 'only alternative' to US options


The Italian Defense Ministry continues pushing Turkey to join the Eurofighter aircraft project as an alternative to its present fleet of US-made jets. 'Turkey wants part of its fighter aircraft fleet to remain outside the technological and other influence of the United States,' says a Turkish defense analyst

The pan-European Eurofighter fighter aircraft is the only viable alternative to U.S. planes in its category for the Turkish military, Italy’s deputy defense minister said late Tuesday, urging Turkey to join the ambitious European-led defense program.

“The Eurofighter is the only alternative to U.S. aircraft, and provides a great relief to world countries,” Guido Crosetto told a small group of international reporters through an interpreter on the sidelines of the 2011 International Defense Industry Fair, or IDEF, being held in Istanbul.

“If Turkey joins this program, the program would gain a larger importance,” Crosetto said.

Turkey, whose present fighter fleet is comprised of U.S.-made aircraft, also plans to buy the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Lightning II planes, a next-generation, multinational program also led by the United States.

But Turkish officials privately say they want another future jet fighter to be developed with a country or countries other than the United States, in an effort to reduce Ankara’s over-dependence on Washington.

Most of Turkey’s present fleet of F-16 fighters is being modernized by the United States.

Lockheed Martin and the planned future F-35s are open to U.S. influence. Only its older F-4 aircraft, modernized by Israel, and its oldest F-16s, being modernized by Turkey itself, are technologically free from this influence, the officials believe. But these older aircraft are expected to be decommissioned around 2020.

“Turkey wants part of its fighter aircraft fleet to remain outside the technological and other influence of the United States. It believes this scheme would better fit its national interests,” said one Turkish defense analyst.

The members of the Eurofighter consortium include Germany, Italy, Britain and Spain. As an influential member of the group, Italy is leading the efforts to add Turkey to the consortium.

Quest to find a fighter partner

In December, Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül said that Turkey at that point was not considering the Eurofighter as an option, and was more interested in developing a national fighter through its own assets or through cooperating with non-U.S. partners.

Initial talks with South Korea came to nothing as Seoul insisted on its own terms for partnership with Turkey, while Ankara remained interested in no less than an equal partnership.

Despite Ankara’s rejection in December, Italy has continued to insist on the multinational Eurofighter program as the best solution for Turkey.

Crosetto said the inclusion of India and Japan in the Eurofighter program was likely, and again urged Turkey to also join.

The Eurofighter, short-listed together with France’s Rafale in technical evaluations for India’s huge fighter program, and short-listed together with the U.S. F-18 and F-35 in Japan’s fighter competition, believes it can add the two Asian countries to the pan-European program.

“It would also be great to include Turkey in this scheme,” said one Eurofighter official.

Italy pushes Eurofighter as Turkey's 'only alternative' to US options - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review


So one more partner India has to negotiate with in regard to upgrades and further developments? The offer for Japan is similar as well and just shows how desperate the EF partners are now.