Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[!!craft!!]

looks like India is giving a piece of cake to everyone, wont be surprised if the gripen or euro fighter gets the mmrca.. looking at the complications in getting gripen i recon the weight has definitely shifted toward eurofighter..

 

[sancho]

Any sound bytes on Rafale? Sarkozy in town and only thing in focus is the nuclear deal. Nothing on Rafale. Have the French given up on MMRCA

When Obama was here, did you hear anything about the F18SH? MMRCA will be discussed during all these visits for sure, but only behind closed doors, because all the vendors and their countries will now give their final round of bids before the shortlisting. Not to mention that GoI will use these visits to get more advantages too!
The recent media reports about EF and Rafale leading the race, IAF not favouring US fighters (although at least the earlier don't seems to be very reliable), surly had put some more pressure on the Boeing and the Obama administration.

..please read the highlighted text, I have repeatedly said that the Rafale is not free of US Export controls.

Please, not that again! Even they are talking only about "components", while still all major parts of it, be it radar, engine, EWS, or weapons are developed in France/Europe!

Btw, the wikileakes pointed out some other things too:

FAB presses for purchase of U.S. aircraft, documents say

The dispute over the sale of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force mobilized to pressure U.S. authorities to the commander of the Air Force, Juniti Saito and Defense Minister Nelson Jobim, to intervene in the choice of an American model, reveal documents released by WikiLeaks site on Sunday (5)...

...Preference
In another letter, it reported a conversation the commander of the Air Force, Juniti Saito, with former U.S. Ambassador Clifford Sobel, indicating that the Brazilian would prefer the U.S. model to the French. "We flew on American equipment for decades and we know who is trustworthy and that their maintenance is simple and offers good money through foreign military sales system," said the statement attributed to Saito.

Saito also would request a letter committing the U.S. to transfer technology to Brazil. In a telegram signed by former ambassador, he reports he told the commander that the letter was in the final stages of approval. Relieved, Saito said he needed to hand the letter on August 6. [...] That was the clearest expression of that Saito is to recommend that the F-18," he said.

G1 - EUA pressionam FAB por compra de avião americano, dizem documentos - notícias em Mundo


So much for FAB prefers Gripen NG like you claimed, based on the fake media report!

Don't you find it interesting too, that the whole leak of the US embassy talks only about Rafale as a competitior, while not a single word is said about Saab, or Gripen NG? All they say, or recommend are tactics to counter French political advantages (btw I find it funny that you now have to find counter tactics against political advantages ), as well Dassaults ToT offer, but nothing about Saab! They must be pretty sure about that Brazil won't choose the Gripen don't you think? And now take a guess why?
It's getting pretty obvious these days how dependent Saab, or better the Gripen is on the US and that they really can't do anything against it (Norway, deal Israeli radar).

 

[typhoon77]

Don't you find it interesting too, that the whole leak of the US embassy talks only about Rafale as a competitior, while not a single word is said about Saab, or Gripen NG? All they say, or recommend are tactics to counter French political advantages (btw I find it funny that you now have to find counter tactics against political advantages ), as well Dassaults ToT offer, but nothing about Saab!

Not really, this is just one cable that was released. There could/probably are other unreleased cables that talk about SAAB and the Gripen. I find it hard to believe that the US would be willing to transfer as much tech as the French. The Rafale will probably come out on top at the end of all this drama. Jobim and Lula prefer it to the hornet.

 

[salman77]

How much longer before IA choses its MRCA.

 

[Hulk]

How much longer before IA choses its MRCA.

3.5 months left. March 2011 it will be decided.

 

[dbc]

Please, not that again! Even they are talking only about "components", while still all major parts of it, be it radar, engine, EWS, or weapons are developed in France/Europe!

..is it too difficult for you to understand? Allow me to dumb it down for you. The only reason Dassault have used US origin components in the "targeting systems, radar components and safety systems" as per US Defense Technology Security Administration is because it couldn't source those components locally or regionally (within Europe).

This shouldn't really surprise anyone, several key components of Rafale are sourced externally.For instance, titanium parts for Rafale's M88 engine is sourced from TITAL Germany.Can these titanium parts be machined in France? Probably - but can a local vendor achieve the same quality and efficiency as TITAL while remaining cost competitive - probably not?

Parallel to the Eurofighter commitment, TITAL is seeing positive business developments in the engine sector. Currently the investment casting specialist casts, machines and assembles titanium castings for the M88 engine which is used in the supersonic transport Rafale manufactured by the French company Dassault.

TITAL GmbH established as Supplier for Engine Manufacturer | TITAL® - The very best in castings

As a matter of fact, several key Rafale components are sourced from Britain, Switzerland, Italy,Germany,Spain and the United States.

Now if Germany refuses to export the parts needed by Rafale's M88 engine to Brazil the aircraft will remain in the hangar until France is able to invest billions in developing single crystal blades of the exact specifications required by its M88 engine to replace the 'components' previously manufactured by TITAL. Considering this how is Dassault marketing the Rafale as an 'Independent Choice" - isn't it fraudulent as claimed by the leaked memo?

Single Crystal Blades of the M88 is just one component but denial of this one small component will halt the Rafale program. The spark plug in your car is one very small component but without it your car is useless.
As for the claim of complete transfer of technology, why will TITAL agree to transfers its sensitive production and casting technology to Brazil or India? What's in it for TITAL? A firm that has spent billions of dollars over several years to develop the technology.
TITAL itself uses US origin technology in its manufacturing process, how can Dassault promise full ToT on US tech?

I hope you now understand that even small components that go into larger subsystems of high performance military fighters are critical. Without these 'components' the aircraft will remain in the hangar, a liability for its operators. With the possible exception of the United States and Russia no other nation can claim independence from foreign suppliers.

 

[Bagee]

The eurofighter have beaten what is considered the new top US fighter, the F22!
"more recently, there have been repeated reports that two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake, and have peformed better than was expected. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight, but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .

- When this incident was reported on a website frequented by front-line RAF aircrew a senior RAF officer urged an end to the converstaion on security grounds"

 

[typhoon77]

The eurofighter have beaten what is considered the new top US fighter, the F22!
"more recently, there have been repeated reports that two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake, and have peformed better than was expected. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight, but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .

The raptors were definitely carrying drop tanks or something that increases the RCS. They never do exercises without them. So the F-22 locks the typhoons got would never have happened in a real BVR fight.

 

[luckyyy]

The raptors were definitely carrying drop tanks or something that increases the RCS. They never do exercises without them. So the F-22 locks the typhoons got would never have happened in a real BVR fight.

why not design a drop tank to reduse RCS , or simply drop the tanks when nearing a opponent fighter..

 

[typhoon77]

why not design a drop tank to reduse RCS , or simply drop the tanks when nearing a opponent fighter..

I think you missed what i was saying. F-22's always fly with those humongous drop tanks when conducting exercises with foreign air forces. This way no foreign airforce knows the real RCS value for the Raptor. Yeah the Typhoon detected it but that was when the RCS went up several magnitudes.
If not the drop tanks I know they use some sort of passive sensor that has the same effect on the RCS.

 

[MKI 30]

Rafale -

 

[IND151]

i want IAF to choose rafale.

 

[FSLN]

i want IAF to choose rafale.

Wikileaks Cablegate : Indian air force had decided to drop French Rafale from MMRCA comptetions | Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
NOT gonna happen.........

 

[ashdoc]

i want IAF to choose rafale.

Wikileaks Cablegate : Indian air force had decided to drop French Rafale from MMRCA comptetions | Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
NOT gonna happen.........

i have read that the RBE-2 radar of the rafale has a detection range of only 100 km .

france has not bothered to have a long range for the rafale's radar because it has AWACS which will give it the position of the target by data-link .

but india can hardly afford to have an aircraft with such a low range of radar . even the pakisatani f-16 block 52s have a radar with range of 300 km .

how come the indians are even considering this aircraft if its radar's range is so low ??

 

[indushek]

i have read that the RBE-2 radar of the rafale has a detection range of only 100 km .

france has not bothered to have a long range for the rafale's radar because it has AWACS which will give it the position of the target by data-link .

but india can hardly afford to have an aircraft with such a low range of radar . even the pakisatani f-16 block 52s have a radar with range of 300 km .

how come the indians are even considering this aircraft if its radar's range is so low ??

Are u sure about the range of 300 km about F-16 block52??

This plane has a AN/APG-68 radar is a pulse-doppler radar with 200km range. This radar replaced the erstwhile AN/APG-66 radar with a range of 150km.