What's new

Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm not comparing European aircraft with the American. My point was that every aircraft has weakness/drawbacks and can be brought down. Even the ones that is considered the best in the world.
India has requirement of multirole aircrafts which it is seeking to complete through MMRCA. American aircrafts are probably one of the best (if India gets it with full config and support).
And to answer your question, I question you back, how many wars has this top of the line :tdown: war-plane F-22 raptor fought or was used? Was it used in Iraq war? Was it used in Afghanistan, so far? or was it used only in air-shows?

i guess only once they were summoned to intercept a Russian Tu-95MS 'Bear-H' bombers in Alaska..
 
.
I'm not comparing European aircraft with the American. My point was that every aircraft has weakness/drawbacks and can be brought down. Even the ones that is considered the best in the world.
India has requirement of multirole aircrafts which it is seeking to complete through MMRCA. American aircrafts are probably one of the best (if India gets it with full config and support).
And to answer your question, I question you back, how many wars has this top of the line :tdown: war-plane F-22 raptor fought or was used? Was it used in Iraq war? Was it used in Afghanistan, so far? or was it used only in air-shows?


i personally believe that if the aircraft is much capable and is only used in air-shows and not in wars - then it is the best aircraft.... say enemy stays away....
 
.
This deal WILL be signed..And yes the upfrades ARE required to make these aircrafts deadlier..

There is no such problem with french..We have altered their planes in past and there was no big issue..

Mirage upgrade deal may not keep Sarko date

NEW DELHI: Days ahead of French President Nicolas Sarkozy's visit to India, the government on Wednesday said the $2.1 billion Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft-upgradation deal will not be signed during the trip. Foreign ministry officials said negotiations were still under way and it wouldn't be possible to finalize the deal in the next few days.

Sarkozy will arrive in India on December 4 and is scheduled to hold talks with PM Manmohan Singh two days later. India and France are currently negotiating upgrade of 50 such fighter jets.

"It will not be signed during this visit but I am sure negotiations and discussions are still going on. It doesn't require an agreement to be signed during the visit," said joint secretary (EW) T P Seetharam. The two sides were earlier said to be trying to time the inking of the deal with Sarkozy's visit to India.

Seetharam, in fact, said it was not the practice to have defence supply agreements signed during high-profile visits and that India was not expecting any defence deal to be signed during the trip.

On issue of civil nuclear cooperation though, Seetharam said a framework agreement to build two European Pressurised Reactors (EPRs) was under negotiations but added that it may or may not be signed by Areva and NPCIL during the visit. "The proposal was for supplying two EPRs initially, which will gradually go up to six," he said.
Mirage upgrade deal may not keep Sarko date - The Times of India
 
.
Manama: Bahrain on Wednesday disavowed comments attributed to King Hamad in a US cable published by the WikiLeaks whistleblower website in which he appeared to disparage a French warplane.

The published remarks were "inaccurate and taken out of context," the official Bahrain News Agency quoted a foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

WikiLeaks released a confidential US diplomatic telegram which cited the king as agreeing with US Iraq commander General David Petraeus on November 1, 2009 that France's flagship Rafale fighter was "yesterday's technology."

France has been in talks with Bahrain's Gulf neighbour, the United Arab Emirates, since 2008 in a bid to sell 60 of the aircraft which are a centrepiece of its military aerospace industry.

So far it has failed to sell a single one of the warplanes, although it remains in competition with Swedish and US manufacturers to supply the Brazilian air force.​
 
.
Flying the Eurofighter and France's Rafale

fighter%20plane.jpg


FRANCE 24 journalist Apoorva Prasad takes flight in two of France's modern fighter planes in a cockpit comparison between the Eurofighter (pictured) and the Rafale, which recently came under fire from King Hamad of Bahrain.




"There it is, on your HUD, your ground target!"

A box encircled the nuclear power station, showing me the large cooling towers of the target. On the right hand colour display screen, a close up image of the plant appeared. The plane was in a shallow dive : I was flying closer and closer to the ground at a speed of 550+ knots, my hands nervously holding the throttle and stick. They were both thick, black and felt solid as I gripped them. Dark fields on the ground rushed in. Green lines superimposed the view in front of me, showing me my angle of attack, my speed and altitude. The sky was clear but dark, the sun close to setting.

A red flashing sign suddenly appeared on the right hand screen, a red box surrounding the word Pickle!

I was flying the Eurofighter Typhoon, coached by Craig Penrise, lead test pilot for the aircraft.

"Pickle it!"

I thumbed the red button on my stick. A bomb dropped away from the plane. Immediately, gratefully, I pulled up on the stick, watching the power plant fly away directly under me.

"Level out. And ease back on the throttle."

I levelled out the wings and pulled back on the throttle, switching off the afterburners. The throttle grip came back with a solid thunk, and I saw my engine power reduce on the left LCD screen.

Then I flicked a switch, and the Heads-Up Display (HUD) changed to air-to-air combat mode. Immediately two triangles came up, and I looked down at the large central screen. It had a colour map of the area I was flying over, and lines radiating out of the centre. Two triangles popped up there too. There were two unknown aircraft far in the distance, beyond my visual range - or BVR.

"If I may say so, I helped design some of this", Penrise later explained, sweeping his hand over the futuristic cockpit. Three large Multi-Functional Displays - LCD screens glowed at me as I lay back in the couch, with knobs and switches relegated to the sides.

The jet I had flown was the Eurofighter GMBH consortium's pilot training simulator.

The Eurofighter has a highly advanced "man-machine interface". The cockpit is large, spacious and comfortable - and it feels very different from the cockpit of an F-16, Rafale, MiG-29, such as the Jaguar. But then, I belong to the joystick generation - I'm far more comfortable with buttons and screens than dials.



A day later, I flew the Dassault Rafale simulator under instruction by a test pilot and engineer. The Rafale's cockpit is tighter than the Eurofighter’s. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the Rafale, a slightly smaller plane, is less advanced technologically. The central MFD of the Eurofighter is replaced by a hooded "collimated to infinity" display. From the outside, it appears strange, but sitting inside the cockpit while flying, it all makes sense. From the correct position, the pilot doesn't have to peer inside - the display seems to rise up to the pilot. Essentially, the pilot's eyes don't have to refocus from the horizon outside to the screens inside.

The MFDs (multi function display) on either side of the display are touchscreens. As in the EF Typhoon, they're all interchangeable, in case of personal preference or battle damage. Both planes have something called Direct Voice Input, or DVI. Essentially, a pilot can change display information, radio frequencies, parameters and more, just by speaking to the plane. Yes - just like in the movie Firefox.

In many of these planes, advanced sensors collate all the information available and present it comprehensively to the pilot. A sort of infra-red camera (different companies call them different things) mounted on the nose of the plane can actually capture a close up image of an enemy aircraft flying far beyond visual range, presenting it to the pilot on one of the MFDs. Helmet-mounted sighting can allow a pilot to literally look over his shoulder, target a plane and fire a missile at it.

While sitting in the Rafale, I had flicked a switch under the throttle with my pinkie, activating the autopilot. True Hands-On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) - or now, Voice Throttle and Stick (VTAS) technically allows a pilot to complete a six hour mission without ever lifting his hands off the throttle and joystick, because all the controls are placed on them.

The computers took over everything, adjusting my speed automatically. All I had to do was steer the plane gently towards the little crosshairs showing me the landing field. Moments before landing, I pulled up on the stick, and touched down smoothly. Then I pushed down on both pedals to brake it to a stop.

Even I could land a modern fighter.



France24 - Flying the Eurofighter and France's Rafale
 
.
you just can´t compare USA AESA mature Radars to French inmature and second tech tier...:no: Unless you think french avionics are superior to American Avionics...:undecided:

You asked me to let you know when they will have comparable techs and that's what I did. There is no doubt about that the US AESAs are more mature and at least compared to the RBE 2 possibly more capable too, but that doesn't mean they are more capable in any field.
 
.
F-22 raptor fought or was used? Was it used in Iraq war? Was it used in Afghanistan, so far? or was it used only in air-shows?
there hasn't being any need to use the Raptor lately, maybe in 20 years from now when the world has caught up to U.S.A 80's tech...:whistle: by that time they will have another trailer queen...:smitten:

You asked me to let you know when they will have comparable techs and that's what I did. There is no doubt about that the US AESAs are more mature and at least compared to the RBE 2 possibly more capable too, but that doesn't mean they are more capable in any field.
Agreed...:cheers:
 
.
Manama: Bahrain on Wednesday disavowed comments attributed to King Hamad in a US cable published by the WikiLeaks whistleblower website in which he appeared to disparage a French warplane.

The published remarks were "inaccurate and taken out of context," the official Bahrain News Agency quoted a foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

WikiLeaks released a confidential US diplomatic telegram which cited the king as agreeing with US Iraq commander General David Petraeus on November 1, 2009 that France's flagship Rafale fighter was "yesterday's technology."

France has been in talks with Bahrain's Gulf neighbour, the United Arab Emirates, since 2008 in a bid to sell 60 of the aircraft which are a centrepiece of its military aerospace industry.

So far it has failed to sell a single one of the warplanes, although it remains in competition with Swedish and US manufacturers to supply the Brazilian air force.​


so , the news of rafale failed to pass the technical evaluation in mmrca was indeed true...​
 
.
Indian MMRCA contract by March 2011: IAF Chief
Mon, Nov 29, 2010 11:58 CET

The Indian contract to buy 126 MMRCA fighter aircraft is expected to be signed by March 2011, the Indian Air Force Chief of Staff, P.V. Naik has been quoted as saying.


In an interview to Vayu Aerospace, a media partner of defenseworld.net, the air force chief said that the likely timeframe for completing various activities before the contract is signed is about 6-8 months, “So, we expect the contract to be signed by March 2011. From thereon, the induction should begin by mid 2014 onwards".

The RFP for the M-MRCA was issued in August 2007 to six global vendors. These vendors responded with their proposals and the TEC was completed in June 2009. By this time, the IAF was already ready to undertake Field Evaluations and these were conducted from July 2009 to May 2010, the Air Chief said.

Thereafter the IAF has completed the analysis of results and compiled an exhaustive report well in time. The Staff Evaluation report was submitted on 30 July 2010.

"In my opinion, considering the number of vendors involved and the complex nature of evaluations, there has not been any inordinate delay. We have been able to achieve our objectives well within the stipulated time frame", he added.

Indian MMRCA contract by March 2011: IAF Chief : Defense news
 
.
there hasn't being any need to use the Raptor lately, maybe in 20 years from now when the world has caught up to U.S.A 80's tech...:whistle: by that time they will have another trailer queen...:smitten:

Lets see, F-22 was planned in the 80's to fight the Soviets and after 25 yrs in 2005 it was introduced in US air force (since then ~183 built instead of the original ~700 planned). It was banned for export and in 2009 the F-22 program was terminated. Over the years US has fought Iraq war (2003-2010) and is currently fighting Afghanistan war and you think there was no need for the US to use it even once? Sounds show-case aircraft to me.
The US now has shifted to build F-35 along with finance from several other partners (which will take another few years to induct).
War planes are counted by their flying hours in combat/war. For that I have tremendous admiration for the F-15, F16 and Super hornets.
 
Last edited:
.
Not sure if this news source is reliable (i.e. bloomberg.com) or bogus (if so, my apology for posting).

Rafale Fighters:
Sarkozy will seek to advance talks on an Indian Air Force tender from 2007 to buy 126 warplanes worth $11 billion, the world’s biggest fighter-jet purchase in 15 years. Paris-based Dassault Aviation SA, with its Rafale, is competing with Chicago-based Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp., Stockholm-based Saab AB, European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co., which has headquarters in Paris and Munich, and Moscow-based OAO United Aircraft Corp.

The Rafale has minimum chances because India is looking for jets that have already been exported,” Siemon Wezeman, a senior fellow at SIPRI, said in an interview.

Sarkozy Seeks Weapons, Nuclear-Reactor Sales on India Trip - Bloomberg
 
Last edited:
.
Sweden 'tricked' in failed Norway Gripen bid

30584.jpg


Sweden was deceived by both the United States and Norway regarding the latter’s interest in signing a multi-billion kronor deal to buy Sweden's JAS Gripen fighter plane.

Citing US diplomatic cables recently released by WikiLeaks, the Aftonbladet newspaper reports that Norway’s supposed interest in the Gripen was just a show.

Norway ultimately decided to purchase the US-made Joint Strike Fighter/F-35 combat aircraft in a deal reportedly worth 55 billion kronor ($7.9 billion).


At the time, Norway's choice of the American plane over the Gripen angered a former Saab executive.

"We are really surprised about how this was handled, what happened yesterday, and about the justification," Jan Nygren, who served as Saab’s deputy CEO until two years prior to the decision, told the TT news agency at the time.

"And besides, we are just a tad surprised to say the least that they so unabashedly chose to criticize the Gripen, despite the fact that all of us involved know that the Gripen is a better fit for the functional demands laid out in the documentation included in the proposal request."

According to Aftonbladet, the United States threw a spanner in the works of the Gripen deal by stopping the export of an American-made radar component for use on the Swedish plane.:coffee:

The prelude to the snub included a 2008 meeting between Sweden’s defence minister Sten Tolgfors and the US ambassador at the time, Michael Wood.

During the meeting, Tolgfors asked for permission to buy the American-made Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar system for the Gripen.

But documents released by WikiLeaks describe how the Americans worked to scuttle the Swedes’ radar request.

“We suggest that we delay the decision about the ASEA-permit for the Gripen until after Norway’s decision,” read one US diplomatic cable, according to Aftonbladet.:coffee:

The newspaper writes that the US embassy in Oslo also placed a “call for help” to Washington for assistance in putting high-level political pressure on Norway following negative reports about the F-35 in the Norwegian press.

After the call, prospects for the F-35 brightened; Norwegian politicians gave signals that made the United States confident its plane would win the Norwegian tender. But the Americans were careful not to claim that the aircraft purchase was a done deal before Norway announced its decision.

“We must continue to act like an honourable and elegant competitor,” read a cable from the US embassy in Oslo.

“We don’t offer reviews of WikiLeaks documents or embassy reports,” said Mikael Östlund, a spokesperson for Swedish defence minister Tolgfors, to the TT news agency.

TT/The Local/dl (news@thelocal.se)

Sweden 'tricked' in failed Norway Gripen bid - The Local
 
.
Defective Fuel Readings Led Pilot To Ditch Fighter Jet

PARIS - The Rafale F3 strike fighter that was ditched into the sea Nov. 28 off the Pakistan coast suffered from defective fuel information, the spokesman for the French Ministry of Defense said Dec. 2.

An initial debriefing of the pilot who ejected from the Rafale established that the defect created inaccurate fuel-level readings, spokesman Laurent Teisseire told journalists. A team from the accident inquiry board is on its way to the Charles de Gaulle carrier, from which the Navy Fleet Air Arm Rafale was operating.

Related Topics
Europe
Asia & Pacific Rim
Air Warfare
"An inquiry is underway," Teisseire said, adding that it is too early to say what were the technical causes behind the incident.

The Rafale was armed for a close air support mission and headed for the Afghan theater in a patrol with Super Etendard Moderrnisé aircraft.

The Rafale pilot was returning to the carrier to change aircraft when he was forced to eject and ditch the aircraft at 8 a.m. Paris time on Nov. 28. A helicopter picked up the pilot within 10 minutes of hitting the water. The pilot was unharmed.

The Super Etendard and Rafale between them have flown about 110 hours, just over half by Rafales, since the Charles de Gaulle arrived on station Nov. 25 to support ground troops in Afghanistan, said Army Col. Thierry Burkhard, the spokesman for the chief of the Defense Staff.

This is the first loss of a Rafale in operational deployment, and the fourth overall. The other three Rafales were lost under different circumstances while flown in training. The first accident, in December 2007, led to the death of the pilot. In the second accident, December 2009, two Rafales collided in midair. The accident enquiry reports have not yet been published.

President Nicolas Sarkozy is due to arrive in India on Dec. 4 for a two-day visit, accompanied by Defense Minister Alain Juppé. The visit is expected to promote the Rafale as a candidate in India's international competition for 126 medium multirole combat aircraft.

The Dassault Rafale is up against the Boeing F/A-18, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, Lockheed Martin F-16 and RAC MiG-35.
 
.
Sweden 'tricked' in failed Norway Gripen bid

30584.jpg


Sweden was deceived by both the United States and Norway regarding the latter’s interest in signing a multi-billion kronor deal to buy Sweden's JAS Gripen fighter plane.

Citing US diplomatic cables recently released by WikiLeaks, the Aftonbladet newspaper reports that Norway’s supposed interest in the Gripen was just a show.

Norway ultimately decided to purchase the US-made Joint Strike Fighter/F-35 combat aircraft in a deal reportedly worth 55 billion kronor ($7.9 billion).


At the time, Norway's choice of the American plane over the Gripen angered a former Saab executive.

"We are really surprised about how this was handled, what happened yesterday, and about the justification," Jan Nygren, who served as Saab’s deputy CEO until two years prior to the decision, told the TT news agency at the time.

"And besides, we are just a tad surprised to say the least that they so unabashedly chose to criticize the Gripen, despite the fact that all of us involved know that the Gripen is a better fit for the functional demands laid out in the documentation included in the proposal request."

According to Aftonbladet, the United States threw a spanner in the works of the Gripen deal by stopping the export of an American-made radar component for use on the Swedish plane.:coffee:

The prelude to the snub included a 2008 meeting between Sweden’s defence minister Sten Tolgfors and the US ambassador at the time, Michael Wood.

During the meeting, Tolgfors asked for permission to buy the American-made Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar system for the Gripen.

But documents released by WikiLeaks describe how the Americans worked to scuttle the Swedes’ radar request.

“We suggest that we delay the decision about the ASEA-permit for the Gripen until after Norway’s decision,” read one US diplomatic cable, according to Aftonbladet.:coffee:

The newspaper writes that the US embassy in Oslo also placed a “call for help” to Washington for assistance in putting high-level political pressure on Norway following negative reports about the F-35 in the Norwegian press.

After the call, prospects for the F-35 brightened; Norwegian politicians gave signals that made the United States confident its plane would win the Norwegian tender. But the Americans were careful not to claim that the aircraft purchase was a done deal before Norway announced its decision.

“We must continue to act like an honourable and elegant competitor,” read a cable from the US embassy in Oslo.

“We don’t offer reviews of WikiLeaks documents or embassy reports,” said Mikael Östlund, a spokesperson for Swedish defence minister Tolgfors, to the TT news agency.

TT/The Local/dl (news@thelocal.se)

Sweden 'tricked' in failed Norway Gripen bid - The Local

I'm a bit puzzled by this story, I thought Gripen's AESA was Italian made by Finmeccanica unit of Selex Galileo?
 
.
I'm a bit puzzled by this story, I thought Gripen's AESA was Italian made by Finmeccanica unit of Selex Galileo?

Saab had previously requested that the US approve a Raytheon-made active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar -- a key upgrade as the non-stealthy Gripen competed against the stealthy, Northrop Grumman AESA-equipped F-35 in Norway. Because the AESA was American technology, the US was not obligated to release the radar to a foreign competitor.


Wikileaks shows US played AESA trick on Gripen in Norway - The DEW Line
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom