Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Young Wolf]

do you think they will be going for astra mk2 without fully testing astra(80km)...

of course they will... that is the indian way.... testing of lca has been going on for long but work on mk2 has already started...forget mk2 we have also started work on amca without the lca fully complete.
agni II+ not completed and work on agni V started.....am not saying this is wrong view.... infact i agree with this view(forward thinking).
all i am saying is that the success of astra mk1 should not be judged by the fact that work on mk2 has started

 

[ganimi kawa]

I suspect many Indian's support the Rafale because it is pretty . Do you like pretty things too Sancho..

I think all of them are pretty in their own way!

Wish we could have them all!

From an aviation buff PoV, this is the "miss world" pageant for combat aircrafts!

 

[Trisonics]

I suspect many Indian's support the Rafale because it is pretty .

I suspect you are jealous

 

[sancho]

@ DBC

It just shows that you still try and try and try, but fail and fail and fail!

Radar range no issue for India, Swiss and Brazil, only UAE wants't more of everything that's all!
They purposely went for more sensors and not beeing limited to radar alone, that's even an advantage of the Rafale!
Refueling probe don't have to be in the nose section, check Gripen, or F16IN, so your point is totally baseless!
Lack of HMD, nothing new, I said that often enough as a downside of Rafale, but it's just a mater of integration, because it was tested before, just like the CFTs, or more weapon stations.
Engine, explain often enough and still you come up with this fake issue, but it just shows your lack of arguments!

P.S. Who needs Towed decoy when you already have such excellent self defense capabilities of SPECTRA?

The efficiency of Spectra notably was demonstrated in 2008 at the Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, where during all sorties the Rafale escaped SAM missile threats. This followed a successful demonstration at the NATO MACE electronic warfare campaign in Europe.

And this with SPECTRA in training modes only, which was one reason why the USF was so pi... off about the French, because you couldn't get an idea of SPECTRAs real capabilities.

I suspect you are jealous

Obviously, girls can't take it if someone else gets more attention!

 

[dbc]

@ DBC

Obviously, girls can't take it if someone else gets more attention!

..attention?? in case you haven't noticed no one wants the Rafale.

 

[Just Yash]

..attention?? in case you haven't noticed no one wants the Rafale.

I DO

 

[dbc]

I DO

Do you have 7 to 10 Billion$? If you don't then your liking the Rafael doesn't help. The Rafale may catch a break in Brazil, if it doesn't then its curtains, lets hope Lula succeeds in shoving the Rafale down a reluctant FAB's(Força Aérea Brasileira) throat.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Do you have 7 to 10 Billion$? If you don't then your liking the Rafael doesn't help. The Rafale may catch a break in Brazil, if it doesn't then its curtains, lets hope Lula succeeds in shoving the Rafale down a reluctant FAB's(Força Aérea Brasileira) throat.

i have cheque of $10 billion is that oke ?.. hmmm dont point fingers if it bounces

 

[ganimi kawa]

Do you have 7 to 10 Billion$? If you don't then your liking the Rafael doesn't help. The Rafale may catch a break in Brazil, if it doesn't then its curtains, lets hope Lula succeeds in shoving the Rafale down a reluctant FAB's(Força Aérea Brasileira) throat.

There was a talk about leaked FAB report on the evaluation of fighters ( not the one who put grippen on top, IIRC it was debunked by Brazillian gov.)

I've searched the net for quite a while but could not find anything.

Do you have any info on that? Which craft does FAB prefer?

Thanks in advance.

 

[sudhir007]

Nations vie for India?s combat aircraft deal

The $10-billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal is turning out to be the rallying point for visiting head of states, as almost all foreign dignitaries visiting India are campaigning vigoursly to win the bid which is touted as the “mother of all defence deals”.It began with US President Barack Obama’s recent visit to India where the defence delegates accompanying him pitched hard for the two US contenders Boeing’s F/A-18 and Lockheed Martin’s F-16.The US, which is considered to be the frontrunner following the recent defence deals between the two countries, is looking at sealing the pact at all costs as it can generate over 27,000 jobs.Earlier this week, the United Kingdom’s Secretary of State for Defence, Liam Fox, underlined the country’s support to the Eurofighter Typhoon campaign to win the tender for 126 MMRCA.Along with the UK, other European nations such as Germany, Italy and Spain are also campaigning for the Eurofighter Typhoon.Next in line is French President Nicholas Sarkozy, who will begin his four-day India visit on December 4 from Bangalore, the headquarters of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.The state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will build 108 of the 126 aircraft under licence with a transfer of technology.President Nich o l a s Sarkozy will visit the space and defence organisations in the city and later call upon the government officials in New Delhi to pitch for the French Rafale.Meanwhile, Russia, the other contending nation offering the MiG-35, is also not left behind as its President Dmitry Medvedev will be in India on a three-day visit starting on December 4.

 

[dbc]

There was a talk about leaked FAB report on the evaluation of fighters ( not the one who put grippen on top, IIRC it was debunked by Brazillian gov.)

I've searched the net for quite a while but could not find anything.

Do you have any info on that? Which craft does FAB prefer?

Thanks in advance.

You couldn't find it because it does not exist, the one report submitted to Defense Minister Nelson Jobim had the Gripen on top, the F/A-18 E/F in second place and the Rafale in last place. Both Defense minister Nelson Jobim and President Lula have publicly expressed their preference for Rafale.

Brazil Air Force prefers Swedish jets-report | Reuters

Jan 5 (Reuters) - The Brazilian Air Force would prefer to buy its next-generation fighter jets from Sweden, putting it at odds with President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's preference for French planes, media reported on Tuesday.

The deal, which could initially be worth more than $4 billion, has sparked fierce competition among aircraft manufacturers.

An Air Force report presented to Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST) had presented the best overall project among the three finalists, Folha de Sao Paulo newspaper reported on Tuesday.

The U.S.-made Boeing (BA.N) F18 was runner-up in the report, and France's Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA) placed last with its Rafale jet.

The Brazilian government said last year that it was in the final stages of talks to acquire the Rafale.

Accused by critics of cutting short the bidding process, the government insisted no final decision had been made. Lula said he would have the final word and that his decision would be political and strategic.

Brazil has signed a strategic defense agreement with France worth billions of dollars, including the local assembly of helicopters and conventional and nuclear-powered submarines.

Brazil is seeking a generous technology transfer offer and local assembly as part of a contract to buy 36 jet fighters. The deal could eventually rise to more than 100 aircraft.

Saab's Gripen NG jet had a lower purchase and maintenance cost and would allow for more technology to be transferred to Brazil, Folha cited the Air Force report as saying.

Unlike the Rafale, which is a finished product, the Gripen NG would be developed with Brazilian participation, the Air Force said according to Folha.

The Veja news magazine reported this week that Jobim told friends there might not be a decision on the deal before he steps down in April to run for public office in October general elections.

For more than a decade, Brazil has been studying how to replace its aging fleet of fighter jets.

The Air Force declined to comment, and the defense ministry was not immediately available to comment. (Reporting by Raymond Colitt; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn)

Força Aérea Brasileira is opposed to the Rafale primarily because the air force will be severely hampered by the significantly higher operating cost of the Rafale. The French average just a 180 flight hours per year, contrast that with the F-15's 270 hours and F/A-18 E/F's 360 hours per year. You start to understand the FAB's opposition to the Rafale, it is more expensive to acquire, more expensive to operate and significantly more expensive to arm.
Recall how IAF kept French Matra Durandal's in storage for eight years because they could not afford to test it, when they eventually decided to test it close to the weapons expiration date they discovered it did not work. The price for French independence is the loss of economies of scale, the F/A-18 E/F, F-117, F-15,Gripen and F-16 share common components this in turn results in immense savings that are often passed to the customer.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Brazil, if the FAB is arm twisted into accepting the Rafale the military will be forced to seek additional funding to procure and operate planned FX-2 squadrons or abandon some of its other ambitious modernization and capability improvement plans.

Brigadier General Dominique de Longvilliers - I'm not an expert on the Rafale, but in terms of logistics, we have made an annual contract and our pilots are flying about 180h per year.

 

[ranveer]

Just my 2 cents...

I think Gripen is gonna win....

Tech wise,, features, weapons, TOT, cost and every other parameter is fullfilled or exceeded as per the Air force requirements.... i think...

Engine commnality with LCA is already there so thats a plus and savings points again....

I think Indians will always go for a cost advantage as our mind works for cost effective things.....Look at all the previous purchases.....

2 points which all members think of - Strategic benefits and LCA
Strategic Benefits--- there is none but why is it required in first place,,, we are in good times in laps with both US and Russia and are offering them enough contracts to satisfy our and their needs..

LCA--i think its too exaggarated that Gripen order means LCA closed...we need to understand that LCA is just started and it will take another 8 to 10 yrs to mature (ppl might kill me for saying this) and it is going to stay... i am saying mature and not flying,, its already flying... but in that time its going to be a potent weapon..

Gripen is already matured platform and ready to use,,,,it will benefit LCA making in the long run and if we can get something more from SAAB what we require for LCA than it is sone pe suhaga...

I havent seen anyone shout on AMCA funding.......if are getting MRCA, FGFA then why AMCA still the same as MRCA or FGA... but guys this is how it works.... buy as u need and develop in home as it takes time and effort but u cant keep ur forces on bay if u dont have fighters,, so will need to buy abroad and simultaneous develop...15 yrs henceforth we will get mature AERO insdustry...

Look at missile program or space programmes----almost 25 yrs before started and today giving fruits...so LCA fruits will be in different variety after 15 yrs.... in AMCA, UAV, UCAV or whatever..
for today we need planes in urgent and get them home early..

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Gripen can only fly at match 1.1. Isn't it very bad ??

 

[ranveer]

Gripen can only fly at match 1.1. Isn't it very bad ??

veera,,, wish i could fly at Mach 1.1,,,LOL

yaar i dont know much abt what other aircrafts could fly at but have read some where they dont fly too fast... most of them are just between 0.8 mach and 1.8 mach....
we indians are making Brahmos that can fly at 5 to 7 mach so we will add that later to make it worlds fastest later..sry just intended pun..
Gripen i guess would be faster or equal to most other aircrafts,,, with its light weight and uprated F414 engine... yeah also its a single engine.. so dont know how it affects speed difference... in lay mans term 2 engines means more muscle and more stamina so may be faster... but with more money and everything more...

 

[jha]

Gripen can only fly at match 1.1. Isn't it very bad ??

Where did you learn this..?

It super cruises and that too at >Mach 1.1.