Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[SpArK]

radars avionics for JF

All of them have AESA as a condition for the tender. Has anybody of them promised any radar or avionics of any of these fighters?

 

[MZUBAIR]

All of them have AESA as a condition for the tender. Has anybody of them promised any radar or avionics of any of these fighters?

As I say its poltical now.....
The fear of failear in the contest, blocks the AESA n weapons for JF.
If any one deals AESA n weapons for JF will lose to contriubte in MRCA.....but yes all of them hav in the mind that if they lose will surely invest in JF project.......

So all of us r waiting when India will descide MRCA winner

 

[SpArK]

As I say its poltical now.....
The fear of failear in the contest, blocks the AESA n weapons for JF.
If any one deals AESA n weapons for JF will lose to contriubte in MRCA.....but yes all of them hav in the mind that if they lose will surely invest in JF project.......

So all of us r waiting when India will descide MRCA winner

Yes i too agree its political. But the current orders with the vendors are more than enough for sustaining the current position. So i dont see any tilt after the decision is taken.

 

[rockstarIN]

radars avionics for JF

Average cost of one AESA radar is 3-4 million plus other expenses.

Can you buy 300 radars for that price for all JF?

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Average cost of one AESA radar is 3-4 million plus other expenses.

Can you buy 300 radars for that price for all JF?

No but for 60 advance JF , yes
Not All 300 be same , Like F-16 stated with block -15 to -60

 

[SpArK]

No but for 60 advance JF , yes
Not All 300 be same , Like F-16 stated with block -15 to -60

So lets hope after the MRCA, offers of AESA comes from Boeing, Dassault, Cassadian, Saab, Lockheed or even Migoyan.

 

[rockstarIN]

No but for 60 advance JF , yes
Not All 300 be same , Like F-16 stated with block -15 to -60

Then the cost of the JF will shoot up from 15 Million to 38-40 Million, including AESA+A2A & new engine etc. equal to J-10 price.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

The German Air Force is grounding all 55 of its Eurofighters, made by EADS, out of concern for the functioning of the pilot ejector seats.

-News from Defense Industry Daily

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Then the cost of the JF will shoot up from 15 Million to 38-40 Million, including AESA+A2A & new engine etc. equal to J-10 price.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

The German Air Force is grounding all 55 of its Eurofighters, made by EADS, out of concern for the functioning of the pilot ejector seats.

-News from Defense Industry Daily

I think it has to do with getting western avionics

 

[MZUBAIR]

So lets hope after the MRCA, offers of AESA comes from Boeing, Dassault, Cassadian, Saab, Lockheed or even Migoyan.

But yes ...but first have to hope that some day MRCA will be descided.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Then the cost of the JF will shoot up from 15 Million to 38-40 Million, including AESA+A2A & new engine etc. equal to J-10 price.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

The German Air Force is grounding all 55 of its Eurofighters, made by EADS, out of concern for the functioning of the pilot ejector seats.

-News from Defense Industry Daily

New engine will be WS-13 turbofan ....wouldnt be too costly as Chinees always are looking for good quality in low price.
AESA radar would be of 4 to 5 m a piece ....and... AtoA weapons would be close to 0.2-0.4 m per piece

JF current price = $~17 m
Exclude price of RD-93 engine and KLJ radar = $~10m

JF-Block II price = ~$10m (A/C cost) + ~$5m (AESA radar)+ ~$10m (Engine) = $~25M...wouldnt expensie as ur saying.....

J-10 is desgined for different role n JF-17 has designed for different....
____________________________________

In the end stay on the topic

 

[softtec]

New engine will be WS-13 turbofan ....wouldnt be too costly as Chinees always are looking for good quality in low price.
AESA radar would be of 4 to 5 m a piece ....and... AtoA weapons would be close to 0.2-0.4 m per piece

JF current price = $~17 m
Exclude price of RD-93 engine and KLJ radar = $~10m

JF-Block II price = ~$10m (A/C cost) + ~$5m (AESA radar)+ ~$10m (Engine) = $~25M...wouldnt expensie as ur saying.....

J-10 is desgined for different role n JF-17 has designed for different....
____________________________________

In the end stay on the topic

And who will give u their state of the art EASA radar(which they will use their respective front line fighter) without buying the fighter itself?Last time I heard that PAF was negotiating only for 2nd level france RC-400 radar.And top contries willn't give u their best to PAF, fearing being copied by Chinese.

 

[Choppers]

MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief

Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik on Sunday said the contract for supply of 126 Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MCRA) to Indian Air Force will be signed soon.

“Evaluation of six aircraft from the bidding companies has been completed and details have been submitted to the Ministry of Defence which is expected to take a final decision soon,” Air Chief Marshal Naik told reporters on the sidelines of an event here.

The IAF has been holding trials for its $10-billion Medium MCRA tenders in which Boeing and Lockheed Martin from U.S., French D’Assault, Swedish SAAB, European consortium EADS and Russian MiG are contenders.

“The evaluation report will be discussed by the Cabinet Committee on Security, after which the process of awarding contract would be initiated,” he said.

He said that it would take another year to sign the contract and the delivery of first batch of 18 aircraft would be received within three years after the orders are placed.

The Defence Ministry has allocated Rs. 42,000 crore for the purchase of 126 aircraft.

The Hindu : News / National : MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief

 

[SpArK]

MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief


The Hindu : News / National : MRCA aircraft deal to be signed soon: IAF chief

How soon is the big question.. we have already seen lots of "soons"..

Anyway i dont understand why it take a year to sign a contract?? Is the signing party needs learning Alphabets first or what??

 

[rockstarIN]

AESA radar would be of 4 to 5 m a piece ....and... AtoA weapons would be close to 0.2-0.4 m per piece

JF current price = $~17 m
Exclude price of RD-93 engine and KLJ radar = $~10m

JF-Block II price = ~$10m (A/C cost) + ~$5m (AESA radar)+ ~$10m (Engine) = $~25M...wouldnt expensie as ur saying.....

You don't want,

-electronic warfare suite

-infrared search and track (IRST) system

-all-color glass cockpit with large displays

-helmet-mounted cueing system

You need all the above to integrate the RADAR & weapon systems to the fighter. Then it will not be 25Million as you said

 

[SpArK]

EUROFIGHTER EDGES AHEAD

The Eurofighter's twin-EJ200 engines, seen here on full afterburner. Eurojet, which makes the EJ200, has bid lower than GE to provide India with 99 engines for the Tejas fighter

by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 20th Sept 10

Europe is poised to beat America in the tightly fought contest to sell India a next-generation engine for the homegrown Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). Business Standard has learned from informed sources that, when the bids were opened last week, European consortium Eurojet, which bid US $666 million for ninety-nine EJ200 engines, has undercut US rival General Electric, which quoted US $822 million.

Both the engines had been earlier adjudged technically suitable for powering the Tejas Mark II. Therefore, according to the Ministry of Defence’s procurement rules, the vendor offering the lower price is to be handed the contract.

But the champagne corks are not yet popping at Eurojet. Both engine-makers have been asked for certain clarifications by Wednesday, and senior Eurojet executives are worried that this interregnum might be used by Washington to put pressure on New Delhi to opt for the American engine.

At stake here is far more than a few hundred million dollars. Industry experts say that India’s choice of engine for the Tejas will significantly shape the choice of a medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), a US $11 billion contract for which the Indian Air Force is evaluating six fighters. Of these, the Eurofighter has twin EJ-200 engines, while GE F-414 engines power the US-built F/A-18, and Sweden’s Gripen NG fighters.

Says Air Vice Marshall (Retd) Kapil Kak, of the Centre for Air Power Studies, the IAF’s official think tank, “It is as clear as daylight. Selecting the EJ200 for the Tejas would boost the Eurofighter’s prospects in the MMRCA contest. Its engines, which form about 15-20% of the cost of a modern fighter, would be already manufactured in India for the Tejas LCA. And, for the same reason, rejecting the GE F-414 would diminish the chances of the two fighters that fly with that engine.

In its tender for the Tejas engine, the MoD has specified that only ten engines could be built abroad. All subsequent engines must be built in India, with the vendor transferring technology for their manufacture. If the EJ200 were being built in India for the Tejas, Eurofighter would benefit from a fully amortised engine line and also be entitled to offset credits for the “made-in-India” Eurofighter EJ200 engines. This would lower the price of the Eurofighter, a huge advantage for an aircraft that is regarded as high performance but expensive. Logistically too, the IAF would prefer an MMRCA with engines that were already on its inventory.



Selection of the GE F-414 engine, on the other hand, would provide all these advantages to the vendors of the F/A-18 and the Gripen NG fighters. This is a key reason why Eurojet and GE have conducted their LCA engine campaign so competitively.




Furthermore, the order for 99 engines for the Tejas Mark II is just a foot in the door to the Indian market. Given that each fighter goes through 2-3 engines during its operational lifetime, the 4-5 planned squadrons of Tejas Mark II (84-105 fighters) will actually need 200-300 of the new engines. The 126 MMRCAs could consume several hundred more.

Business Standard has earlier reported (“EADS plans to ride the LCA into Indian market”, dated 12th Feb 09) the European aerospace industry’s plan to enhance its presence in India’s military aerospace programmes in order to benefit Eurofighter GmbH, in the MMRCA contest. The first move by EADS was to provide consultancy for accelerating the flight-testing of the Tejas; now comes the second move, by the Eurojet consortium, to bid aggressively and win the Tejas engine contract.

MoD sources have expressed surprise that Eurojet could bid 20% cheaper than its rival, General Electric, which is widely regarded as a cost-effective manufacturer. In fact, conversations with EADS executives reveal that this is a well-considered business strategy.

Sources in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) confirm that both the GE and Eurojet engines have fully met the technical requirements to power the Tejas Mark 2. The Eurojet EJ200 --- which the IAF favours --- is the more modern, lighter, flexible engine with greater potential for growth. The GE F-414 is heavier, but provides a little more power.

Eurojet Turbo GmbH (or Eurojet) is a consortium between Avio (Italy); ITP (Spain); MTU Aero Engines (Germany); and Rolls-Royce (UK), which was set up to develop the EJ200 engine for the Eurofighter. It is headquartered in Hallbergmoos, Germany, just outside Munich. The EJ200 and Eurofighter programmes generate approximately 100,000 jobs across Europe, directly and indirectly.
POSTED BY BROADSWORD AT 07:53
LABELS: DEFENCE PLANNING, DEFENCE PRODUCTION, FRANCE, HAL, INDIAN AIR FORCE, INDIAN NAVY, LCA, MMRCA, OFFSETS, RUSSIA, US MILITARY