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India inches closer to major aircraft deal (funny but might be true)

NEW DELHI, April 7 (UPI) -- India's air force won't accept any last-minute offers from bidders in a 126 medium-multi-role combat aircraft deal expected to be worth around $11 billion.

"No offers for upgrades or changes in the original bid submitted by the six aircraft companies would be allowed as their aircraft have been judged on the basis of capabilities offered in the original bid and their performance in the field trials," an unnamed air force source told Indian media.

The comment came after one bidder -- not named - suggested it could supply a more powerful engine.

Planes in the running are the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet from Boeing, the Rafale by French firm Dassault, the Eurofighter Typhoon from Europe's EADS, Lockheed Martin's F-16, the Russian-made MiG-35 and the Gripen from Swedish firm Saab.

But the final report on the planes and each bidder's value-for-money tender has been submitted to the Indian Defense Ministry for evaluation, with a final contract likely signed by July.

Many of India's nearly 800 fighters are aging Soviet-era and Russian aircraft, including the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21, MiG-27 and MiG-29 and some Sukhoi Su-30MKI planes. The air force also has Anglo-French SEPECAT Jaguar and French Mirage 2000 aircraft produced under license.

The MRCA deal is imperative for the air force because of the age of its largest aircraft by numbers, the MIG-21, a 1970s fighter.

The long-awaited aircraft deal -- the tender was issued in August 2007 -- will be one of India's largest capital military expenditures likely in next several years.

The purchase is reflected in the country's boosted defense budget, announced last month. India raised its defense budget by more than 11 percent in the face of China's growing military might.

The increase to $36.5 billion for 2011-12, from $32.74 billion this year, includes a 12 percent boost in capital spending for equipment and services.

From next month, capital spending will rise from $13.33 billion this year to nearly $15.4 billion, Indian Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee said in his presentation of the budget to the country's Parliament.

"More than 40 percent of the Indian defense budget for 2011 will be spent on capital expenditure, while the rest will go toward maintaining its armed forces," he said.

India also will buy nearly 200 light helicopters and 145 ultra-light howitzers for the army.

The "substantial" increase in the budget will go a long way to paying for these, Defense Minister M.M. Pallam Raju said after the budget was presented.

Also last month, Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems said it expected to secure an anti-tank missile order worth $1 billion from the Indian army.

Rafael, which posted a record net profit of $178.6 million in 2010, is also in line to secure arms sales to South Korea worth $500 million a year, The Jerusalem Post reported.

Read more: India inches closer to major aircraft deal - UPI.com
 
IAF to Extend Combat Aircraft Bid Window
06 April 2011
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning, for the second time, to extend the commercial bid validity of the six contenders for the medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal, according to industry sources.

"The government is seeking a extension of the validity of the commercial bid expiring on 30 April as none of the vendors have received any indication from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) about being down listed, nor has the price negotiation committee been set up," the source added.

The extension could cost the government $1bn more than the $10.4bn originally planned for 126 planes.

The new MMRCA aircraft will be the mainstay of IAF fighter aircraft fleet for the next 40 years and will replace its existing fleet of MiG variants.
IAF to Extend Combat Aircraft Bid Window - Air Force Technology
 
First JAS Gripen sortie under Unified Protector in Libya

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So what are my choices? On the one hand the rafale newsblog, that clearly has more knowledge of French fighters and weapons than you have, as well as the official press release of Sagem (the manufacturer of AASM), stating that the weapon will be produced only 2012 onwards and on the other side I have your eyes. :rolleyes:

I think it's obvious who is more reliable and I would suggest to get some new glasses!

Par ailleurs, les Rafale ont conduit de très nombreuses missions contre les forces loyalistes à l'aide de leurs bombes AASM, qui sont également des bombes lisses, mais guidées cette fois par un système de désignation laser et un système d'augmentation de portée conçu par la société française Sagem.

A translation of the above text, laser designated AASM's designed by SAGEM have been used against loyalist forces in Libya.
Looks like I proved you wrong - again! :coffee:

Premier bilan des frappes aériennes françaises en Libye - Le Point
 
Original report from TimesNow:

Even before US President Barack Obama touched down in the country, away from the gaze of the cameras, a script was being written - to make Indian defence subservient to Pentagon. Talk in New Delhi’s defence circles - about a deal that - if through - would give the Americans unprecedented access to Indian defence forces and the communication systems for three services. Top secret documents that would be declassified only ten years from now - in 2020. Documents that show that the US is trying to force India into an agreement that our defence establishment does not need and does not want. The contention is the communications interoperability agreement. Part of this agreement - are six clauses that if India were to agree to - would be humiliating to say the least and completely under US control.

Article 5 of inter-operability agreement says that it will be the Indian defence ministry that shall bear the cost of reconfiguring the communications systems. More interestingly - India can only buy from the US Department of Defence. The other clause is in Article 6 of the agreement which says that the US Department of Defence shall provide defence support - subject to approval - which means - whenever it wants. Article 7 of this top secret agreement points to an effective takeover of our defence communications - since the clause says that it will be American officials who would be training Indian Govt personnel and also conducting inspections of the equipment given to India. Then clause number four - which is in Article 9 of the agreement - that says it will be only US army personnel who will have the right to access and inspect the equipment and material given to India.

Article 8, then goes on to say - that the Government of India cannot use its own equipment - without the prior consent of the American Government. So without a nod from Capitol Hill - India can’t touch its own equipment. And the sixth binding cause - which no American equipment provided to India, will be subject to any cooperative development - meaning that India cannot develop further on US prototypes. These are six of the most relevant clauses in this top secret document - that show how America wants to deal with the India- on their terms - wanting to control Indian defence communications. And they have lobbied hard in order to get India to agree but still not been able to convince the defence establishment.

And it was exactly that sentiment - echoed when the Defence Secretary met with the Defence Chiefs. Not just that - even before Obama arrived - the service chiefs have made their displeasure known. It is because of the open and clear displeasure shown by the defence establishment - that the strong American lobbies are having a rethink. New Delhi extremely wary of American moves. After all - similar defence agreements with other world powers - have given India the flexibility to maintain complete control on its defence establishment. So as the US President attempts to hit the right chords, lurking in the shadows are those who are trying to force a deal - that New Delhi simply does not want.

-- TimesNow.tv
 
Can you give a description and info about various aviation fuels used in jet fighters around the world, would be much appreciated.

Sorry mate, I don't know much about the fuels, was never a point that caught my attention.


10 years to come was a shocker. In 10 years all these fighters will be irrelevant.

I am looking for a sweetener of a surprise like transferring of a few existing fighters from the winning manufacture to fill up the shortage, until the real ones start coming.

I wasn't that surprised, especially if we look at the licence production of the MKI, that started 2002 and till last year HAL produced 70 to 80 in India.
The transfer of existing fighters is on offer, but mainly of those vendors, that are delayed in development. Saab and the EF consortium are reportedly offering older versions of their fighters as a stop gap, while only Dassault and the US vendors will be able to produce new fighters, with the capabilities on offer in MMRCA early than initially planed.
 
A translation of the above text, laser designated AASM's designed by SAGEM have been used against loyalist forces in Libya.


:lol: Is that your own translation?

A simple google translation tells you the truth:

Moreover, the Rafale has led numerous missions against the loyalist forces using AASM bombs, bombs which are also smooth, but this time guided by a laser designation system and a system designed to increase the reach by the French company Sagem.

So it's not talking about AASM with a laser seeker, but about a laser designator system, or targeting pod and a system to increase the reach of the AASM (the rocket propulsion kit), designed by Sagem !


And as the Rafale newsblog explained before:

Apparently at least one Rafale in each flight is loaded with a damocles pod whereas the planes are only armed with AASM bombs which are GPS guided (see the Rafale C on the left). The best bet is that the LDP is used to feed the AASM with GPS coordinates (especially for opportunity targets). The pod can also be usefull for damage assessment and off course for visual identification of the targets prior to any strike


Let me make it clear again:

Rafale with Damocles targeting pod and GPS guided AASM, to feed the GPS coordinates of opportunity targets and damage assessment prior to any strike

mission-du-1er-avril-2.jpg

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And Rafale with Damocles targeting pod and laser guided Paveway bombs

missions-du-05-avril-3.jpg

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And here the AASM propulsion kit that was developed by Sagem and that the article is talking about

16_2011ECPA087S001_046.jpg



The funny thing is, that you really believe Sagem, or the French blogs would not make it official if they would use their latest developments and say that they striked with a laser AASM, although nearly anything is reported today. So far they didn't even used the IR guided AASM, but only the GPS/INS version, but as usual you (think you) know it better. :disagree:


P.S. Maybe you can contribute something of value here and sum up the latest news on the F18SH crash? My sympathies for the relatives of the 2 pilots that lost their lives!
 
Which means Raytheon delivers units for this geo location technology demonstration and the RWR is one part of it!

Just as the official Raytheon site said as well, location and identification, not geolocation!

Which means, for precision geolocating in this demonstration, it requires additional sensor infos besides of those of the RWR and that is exactly what you don't understand. To geolocate means combining the datas of a target, gathered from different sensors in one picture and it's not only these fighters, but AWACS aircrafts that uses the same technologies (RWR, ESM antennas, LWR, IR/UV MAVS) to geolocate threats as well.
Just like the radar arrays are not the only sensor for detection in latest AWACS, it is also not the only sensor in latest fighters. Rafale started to use these sensors not only in defensive, but also in offensive roles, F16 Block 60 seems to follow in that direction (although the weapon guidance is not shown yet), F35 will have it for sure and Gripen E/F might get it, if it will be produced.
Against 5th gen fighters, where radar is of less use, these kind of detecting capabilities will be even more important, which is a reason why we should learn from the French and integrate similar techs into FGFA. Against other stealth fighters, the radar of FGFA will less useful too, while a sophisticated EWS with several additional sensors would be a big advantage!

Don't get your point. You raised questions regarding Raytheon not having capability to give Geolocation capability in ALR69A platform , while BAE has done same in Block 60

5601191002_8241f12181_b.jpg


When Rafale itself needs additional sensors and antennas apart from RWR for geolocation , so does AN/ALR69-A .

As the pic above says both single ship and multi-ship PG (Precise geolocation) in ALR69A.
Remember this pic is an year old .

Don't get your logic saying "RWR is just one part of it " . Dosen't RWR in Rafale needs additional sensors of SPECTRA for precise geolocation .




On to main discussion - With Dassault caught in a scam . Congress gov will always be on backfoot wrt giving contract to Dassault .
Just to add - Way US is going on offensive against Gripen everywhere - Looks like US sees it as one single biggest threat to its campaign .
 
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