Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

“Ahead of the price negotiations, a price negotiation committee has to be set up, which is a complex process,” an industry sources told FE on condition of anonymity. “So far, neither has the committee been set up, nor the qualifying vendors been informed. Therefore, there is no possibility of the negotiations starting by the month-end.”

Last week, Air Chief Marshal PV Naik, the Indian Air Force chief, had announced that the price negotiation for the deal would begin later this month.

As always these unnamed sources, why the media can't simply wait and see? The next 2 - 3 weeks should give us more infos and not only speculations.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Gripen with 3000kg internal fuel will be having the same range as that of any other twine engine fighter with 6000kg internal fuel..
also with a 5000kg payload is well enough to carry weapons , missiles and a external fuel tank...take a note that to extend range , a twine engine will be required to carry two drop tanks as compare to only one by Gripen...

what about high altitude performance and TWR of single engine aircraft compared to twins engine aircrafts.
also consider that LCA mk 2 will be of same class of GRIPEN so why not go for a fightr stands between LCA and mki.pakistan also test life GRIPEN and they says it's not upto the mark.

 

[KEETARP]

but those you claimed has not (EF, F16IN...), so yes you are distracting from the facts!

sancho wrote in earlier post - Lets sum up the facts once again! SPECTRA has interferometry techs to not only detect threats, but also geolocate them

Rubbish ,
from one of your previous post -
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-290.html#post1525753

Even though i mentioned it in my post , but either you didn't read or ,turned a blind eye to ignore facts . That too from one of your links .
Any ways here is article again with red highlighted part -

Period

I said it to others too, we can speculate about what could be possible, or we take those techs and capabilities to account that are available. That's why I don't take SC, CFTs, active cancelation, or other things to account, that might be developed, or claimed for Rafale, till they are not officially integrated, or available.

Add lack of
uprated engine ,
Towed decoy
Helmet mounted display
DIRCM
Lack of 2 way datalink capability on Meteor .
Less tha 800 trm on AESA
no anti-radiation missile

And from the infos yourself provided, F16IN don't has these capabilites, that's a fact, you can go on and speculate, but I'm not joining there.

Counter-busted from your link only . That to recent link .
one pic above

Of course it's my opinion, but based on facts about Rafale and on the infos available about the needs of our forces, be it IAF, or IN (RFP requirements, official statments...) and still I keep saying that at the end the deal might be done for political reasons with the US. For our forces however, Rafale is the best and obvious choice!

However, the shortlistings will show what route MoD will go for, politics, or the needs of our forces?

What is need/Req of IAF , kindly share it with substantial links . Not interested in your logic/opinion or analysis.

Still you haven't answered my questions , this is 3rd time I am asking to explain . You claimed some accuracy fraction for DASS and PIRATE . .... Remember . Link below
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-290.html#post1526165

 

[KEETARP]

what is so stunning? two old design fighter, one design dated back to the 1960s...

One is front line fighter of US NAVY and Australian Air-force , and will remain for atleast 2 decades more .

Second one is Front line fighter of China's PLAF and IAF .

By your Flag , I dont see your country flying more recent or advanced jet as your front-line fighter .

 

[Archie]

Guys, i would request u to discuss the pros and cons of MKI on another thread

By the way mmrca aircraft has a totally different role from MKI , it is suposed to have low RCS and good ground attack capability and decent range though not as high as MKI which is around 5500 Km with drop tanks

Let me tell u another thing
MKI is not exactly gods gift to military aviation , if it was then we would have gone ahead with purchasing 450 MKI to replace both Mig 21,Mig23 and Mig27 as u guys know that at one time India operated over 600 of these 3 fighters

But we are buying 270 MKI , 124 LCA and 126 MMRCA

 

[the rafter]

As always these unnamed sources, why the media can't simply wait and see? The next 2 - 3 weeks should give us more infos and not only speculations.

I agree! But can the media do? Its the MoD thats taking so much time and no press release of any progress, the media will speculate or sell rumors.

 

[localoca]

One is front line fighter of US NAVY and Australian Air-force , and will remain for atleast 2 decades more .

But its an OLD plane Design... heck its even older than colored pictures...

is this 1960's design you want to keep in service till 2040?..

 

[Paan Singh]

But its an OLD plane Design... heck its even older than colored pictures...

is this 1960's design you want to keep in service till 2040?..

its not only design,but also machinery works

 

[Dash]

But its an OLD plane Design... heck its even older than colored pictures...

is this 1960's design you want to keep in service till 2040?..

whats old about it, care to explain???

 

[KEETARP]

But its an OLD plane Design... heck its even older than colored pictures...

is this 1960's design you want to keep in service till 2040?..

K , now i get you and your purpose of posting .
thanks for reminding . I am out of discussion

 

[luckyyy]

Gripen unit cost US$ 60 million .
total life cycle cost $166 million...

Boeder says that the figures shows us that the cost of the acquisition, without weapons,for 48 aircraft. The figures are taken directly from the RBI replies. For Gripen NG it is about NOK 20 billion of NOK 24 billion (in 2008 - NOK) fixed price given in the RBI survey. The remaining NOK 4 billion (in 2008-NOK) for the Gripen NG are additional costs that are completelynecessary to develop the equipment of the plane to be a multirole-fighter to be conformal to NATO standards and requirements.This equipment is described in the RBI survey of the Gripen NG at apartly uncertain price. The cost of this equipment for the JSF areincluded in the price. It is important to say that it is the price for 48 aircraft taken from the offer of the suppliers, without the uncertainty calculation.

Report of External Auditors

Translation of text PDF Report 14-nov-2008 paragraph 5.2.1 and 5.2.5.To get the US$ divide exactly by 7 today (currency rate 6,9888 NOK = 1 US$) based on some fixed parameters:

http://www.nordensnyheter.no/default.aspx?Id=1715

 

[luckyyy]

Price 20 Billion fixed and 100% certain; options/special update to Norwegian specs 4 Billion and 95% certain%: total 24 billion = 0,5 Billion NOK pro Gripen unit = US 71,4 million all-in weapon system price. This price is compared by the Airforce project team with the much
lower costprice of L-M. So comparing apples with berries. And here the price of the Gripen is confirmed to be NOK 24 billion (or US$ 71 million for one Gripen NG) all-in weapon system price and LCC offered 30 years and 95% guaranteed of around 55 Billion NOK (= US$ 8 billion).

 

[angeldemon_007]

US hopes geopolitics can help land India jet deal

WASHINGTON — Two US aerospace firms are jostling with global rivals to win a $11-12 billion Indian fighter jet contract, hoping a nascent US-India strategic partnership can help seal the deal.
As defense contracts go, Delhi's bid to replace 126 aging MiG fighters is large, but hardly a show stopper.
Still, in an industry where billion dollar contracts are commonplace, the project is turning heads.
"It is not the price," explained Ron Somers, president of the US-India Business Council, "the $11 billion is great, but this is geopolitical."
India, after 50 years of depending on Russian fighter technology, is casting around for a new partner.
To play that role US firms Lockheed Martin and Boeing are pitched against Europe's Eurofighter, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and Russia's RSK MiG.
Whichever company and country wins, the deal could help cement military and strategic ties with one of the world's fastest emerging powers.
"You are talking about aligning how you work together for the next two generations," Somers told AFP.
Experts say that the Indian Air Force, by looking beyond Russia's MiG-21s, could remove one of the last vestiges of Cold War power politics and set the stage for a revamp of India's military outlook.
"The supply of the MiG-21 established the Soviet Union as a close ally of the Indian government in the '60s and it led to the 1971 Indo-Soviet friendship treaty," said Sunil Dasgupta, an India military expert and lecturer at the University System of Maryland.
"Whichever aircraft is chosen is going to be the mainstay of the Indian Air Force for maybe 30 years."
The training and maintenance contacts that come with that could prove invaluable in boosting ties with India's powerful military.
"Whoever supplies this kind of equipment is able to get a very deep 'in' into the system," said Dasgupta, who recently co-authored a book on modernizing India's military.
Somers -- who is helping lobby for Lockheed Martin and Boeing bids -- hopes the US trump card will be rapidly developing strategic and military ties between the two countries.
Relations between Delhi and Washington, characterized by mistrust and occasional hostility during the Cold War, were reset by former US president Bill Clinton in the 1990s and invigorated by his successor George W. Bush.
During a visit to India last year President Barack Obama pushed further still, backing India's quest for a permanent UN Security Council seat.
He also announced the United States would sell $5 billion worth of military equipment to India, including ten Boeing C-17 transporters and General Electric 404 engines.
But the two nations remain at odds over close US relations with India's rival Pakistan and military ties are limited.
"If the Indians were to chose and American product then they are going to have to make a political commitment to the United States as well," Dasgupta said explaining some of the program's past delays.
"You can see that the Indians are skittish about making that kind of political commitment without the United States stepping up first."
But Boeing, which is offering its F/A-18IN Super Hornet, expects the delay-plagued project to take a decisive step forward as soon as next month, when a shortlist of contenders could be drawn up.
"Indian military officials have been quoted recently saying they want to make an initial downselect decision possibly as soon as next month," said Boeing spokeswoman Mary Ann Brett.
Whatever the technical benefits of Boeing's Super Hornet or Lockheed's F-16, mechanics and design will only go so far.
One of the key stumbling blocks in any US bid will be reaching an agreement on how much sensitive technology will be transferred to India, and how much can be manufactured inside the country.
The problem, Dasgupta said, is that "Americans want to sell a product and the Indians want access to technology."
That means diplomats and politicians, rather than engineers and military planners may ultimately decide who wins and loses.
"We believe we have met the terms of the RFP (request for proposal)," said Lockheed's Jack Giese. "All we can do now is present (the project) in the field, and provide the info they need."
"After that it becomes a government to government question."

AFP: US hopes geopolitics can help land India jet deal

 

[razgriz19]

ok now that france is using rafale in combat over libyan skies.... so do any of you think that could help france to bag this deal?? or atleast take rafale to the end??

 

[perplexed]

^^^ You are being naive here. Libya has no SAMs. I dont think our neighbours are that dumb. What EFs and Rafales are facing down there is far from india's situation.
Mayb they can divert some planes over pk and we may have a deal. LOL! Just joking....