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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

It's a sliding rule thing. Total ToT doesn't really happen.
In a best case scenario as here, Up-to-Date tech is available because
the next gen is ready to come online. That's rather rare.
Still, for a given amount of money, you will get screwdriver giri tomorrow,
full assembly later and your own line in 5 or 8 years.
For infinite money, you can buy France so the Merignac line becomes MII.
In between, there is the F-35.

By ToT, I really mean MII. The Idea is to have the aircraft manufactured fully in India sometime in the future so that it is 'sanction proof', not to mention the jobs that will go with it. Unless the aircraft is made 100% in India in the future, larger numbers are unlikely unless PAKFA gets delayed considerable. (This is more than likely)

Since Technology is constantly evolving, ToT does not really make sense anyway. The ability to buy your freedom however makes sense.
 
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I doubt the french would allow their frontline fighter be built in India.
Go through this thread and specially the posts of @PARIKRAMA u will get ur answer. Ceo of dassault and french def minister himself made comments on make in india part.

Well they are more than happy to make it in India if India places a large order
No IF No BUT sir, Iaf will order rafale in huge numbers no doubt on that. Iaf have no other option.
 
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Guess Who Got on Al Jazeera

India signs $9bn deal to buy French fighter jets
World's biggest arms importer agrees to buy 36 jets, ending 18 months of wrangling over terms.

India had originally awarded Dassault with an order for 126 Rafales in 2012 [EPA]
India has signed a deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France for around $8.7bn, the country's first major acquisition of combat planes in two decades and a boost for Prime Minister Narendra Modi's plan to rebuild an ageing fleet.

The first ready-to-fly Rafales are expected to arrive by 2019 and India is set to have all 36 within six years.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian signed the agreement with his Indian counterpart, Manohar Parrikar, in New Delhi, on Friday, ending almost 18 months of wrangling over terms between New Delhi and manufacturer Dassault Aviation.

Parrikar said the deal would "significantly improve India's strike and defence capabilities".

Air force officials have warned for years of a major capability gap opening up with China and Pakistan without new state-of-the-art planes, as India's outdated and largely Russian-made fleet retires and production of a locally made plane was delayed.

India had originally awarded Dassault with an order for 126 Rafales in 2012 after the twin-engine fourth-generation fighter beat rivals in a decade-long selection process, but subsequent talks collapsed.

Modi, who has vowed to modernise India's armed forces with a $150bn spending spree, personally intervened in April 2015 to agree on the smaller order of 36 and give the air force a near-term boost as he weighed options for a more fundamental overhaul.

But an industry expert says the deal does not stand to benefit India.

"I don't think it's a good deal," Bharat Karnad, a research professor in national security studies at the Centre for Policy Reseach, told Al Jazeera.

"The original deal was for 126 aircrafts for a sum of $12-15bn. If you look at 36 being bought for $9bn without any transfer of technology, it ends up being a solution to ensure the health of the aviation sector in France.

"The aircrafts are far too few to have a great operation significance in war."

Al Jazeera's Natacha Butler, reporting from Paris, said there was a lot of lobbying that took place behind the scenes to make this deal happen.

"It's a big deal indeed for France and is expected to create up to 5,000 jobs here," she said.

"The 36 planes will be built here before being sent to India ready for service. At many stages, it looked as if it wasn't going to be signed but the French government and President Francois Hollande have been very instrumental and lobbied hard over the years."

'Mark of recognition'
Friday's agreement is a major vote of confidence in the Rafale, which had long struggled to find buyers overseas, despite heavy lobbying efforts by the administration of President Hollande.

Hollande hailed the deal as recognition of France's aviation industry.

"The agreement ... is a mark of the recognition by a major military power of the operational performance, the technical quality and the competitiveness of the French aviation industry," Hollande said in a statement.

India says its locally made Tejas fighter, which took to the skies in July 33 years after it was cleared for development, will form a major part of its future fleet, but Parrikar has also said that India needed 100 new light combat aircraft by 2020 to replace Russian MiG-21s.

India is the world's biggest arms importer, and despite Modi's pledge to build a local manufacturing base, foreign defence firms view India as one of the most lucrative markets as Western states trim defence budgets.

Tensions have flared up between Pakistan and India following the Uri attack last week that killed 17 soldiers in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, at his UN General Assembly address on Wednesday, said he did not want an "arms race with India". But Eenam Gambhir, India's UN diplomat called the neighbours "a terrorist state", blaming the neighbouring country of planning the attack in Uri.

Source: Al Jazeera News And Agencies

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...-buy-french-fighter-jets-160923102728743.html

http://video.aljazeera.com/channels...french-made-rafale-fighter-jets/5138259706001
 
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The old OSF is with a TV channel and an IRST, but OSF-IT, the new OSF is with a TV channel only: this TV channel is on near infrared frequency and we also use MICA seeker for detection and to build tactical situation. This OSF-IT is better than OSF to identify at long range the ennemies, and the French think it is the most important capability because it's generally a weak point in the Kill chain. But it's better to have also an IRST, so for me IAF asked for a new generation IRST to add to OSF-IT, it could be a QWIP IRST developped with SAMTEL in India.
 
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Prime Minister's Office
23-September, 2016 18:48 IST

Defence Minister of France calls on PM

H. E. Mr. Jean-Yves Le Drian, Defence Minister of France called on Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi today.

Minister Le Drian expressed condolences for the victims of the cross-border terrorist attack at Uri, J&K on 18 September 2016 and expressed resolve to strengthen bilateral counter-terrorism cooperation. He said that France stands with India in the fight against terrorism.

Minister Le Drian briefed the Prime Minister on the current status of bilateral defence cooperation.

The Prime Minister welcomed the signing of the inter-governmental agreement on purchase of 36 Rafale aircraft earlier in the day, and called for its speedy and timely implementation.

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AKT/AK
(Release ID :151075)
 
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Any new order will cost more by 3.5% per Year.
No the increase in cost is caped at 3.5% by year, that is to say cannot be more than 3.5%. For example if the price is in € and if the general inflation in Europe is 2% you have the right to increase the price by 2% (in Europe currently inflation is below 1%) but if inflation is 4% you only have the right to increase the price by 3.5%.
 
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The old OSF is with a TV channel and an IRST, but OSF-IT, the new OSF is with a TV channel only: this TV channel is on near infrared frequency and we also use MICA seeker for detection and to build tactical situation. This OSF-IT is better than OSF to identify at long range the ennemies, and the French think it is the most important capability because it's generally a weak point in the Kill chain. But it's better to have also an IRST, so for me IAF asked for a new generation IRST to add to OSF-IT, it could be a QWIP IRST developped with SAMTEL in India.
Is it possible to have pirate irst in rafale?
 
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The old OSF is with a TV channel and an IRST, but OSF-IT, the new OSF is with a TV channel only: this TV channel is on near infrared frequency and we also use MICA seeker for detection and to build tactical situation. This OSF-IT is better than OSF to identify at long range the ennemies, and the French think it is the most important capability because it's generally a weak point in the Kill chain. But it's better to have also an IRST, so for me IAF asked for a new generation IRST to add to OSF-IT, it could be a QWIP IRST developped with SAMTEL in India.
Is there something already in development in france to start with (QWIP IRST)?
 
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I was just watching Al-Jazeera. Bharat Karnad was going on & on about missed opportunities and what not. He spoke about 4.75 gen o_O Su-35.
 
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Is it possible to have pirate irst in rafale?
Every thing is possible but it will cost for nothing. You know the Rafale weapon system integrate all sensors in a data fusion to elaborate the tactical situation. OSF is part of SPECTRA and part of this tactical situation. If you change it you will have to make again the sensor fusion and all tests. And it's not obvious for me that pirate will be better.

Is there something already in development in france to start with (QWIP IRST)?
Technology
Sofradir: the best imaging technologies that cover the whole IR spectrum.
In 2013, Sofradir acquired InSb, QWIP and InGaAs technologies from its shareholders Sagem and Thales, which in addition to its flagship MCT technology, means that Sofradir can offer customers the best IR technology most adapted to an application.


My answer will be only an opinion :
The first Rafale IRST was able to use two frequencies, for me this was possible only with MCT technology. DGA found that the performances were low, I think we are developping a new IRST using InGaAS and QWIP for better performance, perhaps we will see it with F3R. I hope so.
InGaAs imaging sensors for high performance applications | Sofradir
QWIP: a highly stable technology | Sofradir
 
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