Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Norge Stronk]

First of all MTCR is NOT a Treaty, so its rules are NOT legally binding on members.

US has exported tomahawk missiles and Trident missiles to UK despite the MTCR so this 'club membership' is flexible for those who dare challenge it.

MTCR treaty membership makes it easier for nations to export longer range missiles which otherwise might be not possible by their own state legislation.

MTCR was primarily signed by India to get US UAV's which can drop bombs and can travel a LOT longer than 300 km

Time for a history lesson, since you brought up Tomahawk and Trident:

https://defence.pk/threads/china-he...embership-bid-aziz.425048/page-3#post-8213232

You're not right on one point and only partially right on the other. The transfer (sale) of Trident under the Polaris Sales Agreement between the US and UK was not a violation of the MTCR because the early iteration of the MRTC did not cover transfers happening between MTCR member nations:

One of the earliest contributions of the MTCR was to set the parameter of a nuclear-capable ballistic missile as one that could carry a 500-kilogram payload to a range of 300 kilometers. Of course, here the regime erred on the side of caution as a first-generation nuclear weapon was likely to weigh closer to 1,000 kilograms. These parameters and guidelines were readily accepted by the first generation of MTCR members for two reasons. First, these restrictions did not apply to transfers within the MTCR membership, evident in the U.S. supply of Polaris and Trident ballistic missiles to the United Kingdom. Second, in the early 1980s, there was concern that nuclear-capable ballistic missiles or technology supplied by one G-7 country might be used by the recipient against another G-7 country. This worry was highlighted indirectly by Argentina 's use of French Exocet missiles to sink the British destroyer HMS Sheffield and support ship Atlantic Conveyor during the 1982 Falkland Islands War.

A transfer or sale of new Trident missiles to the UK would fall under the jurisdiction and scrutiny of the MTCR.

...

Depending on the justification given, the NPT may not have been violated either by the US sharing nuclear warheads/warhead making materials or by helping the UK develop such weapons, as an audit found in 2006:

The UK National Audit Office noted that most of the UK Trident warhead development and production expenditure was incurred in the US who would supply "certain warhead-related components". Some of the fissile materials for the UK Trident warhead were purchased from the US. There is evidence that the warhead design of the British Trident system is similar to, or even based on, the US W76 warhead fitted in some US Navy Trident missiles, with design and blast model data supplied to the UK

The 1958 US-UK Mutual Defense Treaty and the NATO Nuclear Weapons Sharing Agreement both are loopholes, and controversial ones, that circumvent the NPT.

The former by pre-dating the NPT, and thus not being retroactively covered by it, and later with this argument:

At the time the treaty was being negotiated, NATO had in place secret nuclear weapons sharing agreements whereby the United States provided nuclear weapons to be deployed by, and stored in, other NATO states. Some argue this is an act of proliferation violating Articles I and II of the treaty. A counter-argument is that the U.S. controlled the weapons in storage within the NATO states, and that no transfer of the weapons or control over them was intended "unless and until a decision were made to go to war, at which the treaty would no longer be controlling", so there is no breach of the NPT.

Because the UK is technically leasing its Trident D5 and W76 warheads, they are functionally US property and the US came claim no transfer of custody for those weapons, until they are needed. It's the same scenario we see with US B-61s in Turkey.

@Blue Marlin @mike2000 is back anything to add?

Neither transfer is considered a violation of the MTCR.

So yes, compliance has benefits ... even at face value, especially at face value.

It certainly does. Though France has been known to be a bit of a loose-cannon at times with nuclear and weapons tech proliferation, it does value its partnership and business with the US and world at large. Compliance with the treaties guidelines, though it's not obligated to do so, prevents France from reaping counteraction by the US or other concerned parties.

...

I actually have a hard copy of the MTCR on my desk if anyone would like me to mail it to them. It's a holdover from a cross-training experience I underwent as a negotiating party, where I'm actually an engineer and rarely, only one occurrence, put my contract negotiation training to use.

And for those that don't know, the MTCR is rather relevant in my line of work as well. Though mainly noted as a missile and UAV proliferation deterrence measure, it actually does cover AUVs as well if their capabilities are beyond a specific threshold. I develop AIs for AUVs and write control code for their systems.

 

[VivasvatManu]

You really think so? Check this correct statement :

Those same USA raised a big fuss at our Black Shaheen sale to the UAE
alongside the M2000-9 deal.
That led to a tightening of the rule book.

So yes, compliance has benefits ... even at face value, especially at face value.

Good day, Tay.

The US is unlikely to raise a fuss w.r.t India since it is already planning to sell longer range UAV and armed drones to India.

Still if France is scared of the US, then i guess they can always lie. It just not necessary in this case.

Time for a history lesson, since you brought up Tomahawk and Trident:

https://defence.pk/threads/china-he...embership-bid-aziz.425048/page-3#post-8213232

Neither transfer is considered a violation of the MTCR.

It certainly does. Though France has been known to be a bit of a loose-cannon at times with nuclear and weapons tech proliferation, it does value its partnership and business with the US and world at large. Compliance with the treaties guidelines, though it's not obligated to do so, prevents France from reaping counteraction by the US or other concerned parties.

...

I actually have a hard copy of the MTCR on my desk if anyone would like me to mail it to them. It's a holdover from a cross-training experience I underwent as a negotiating party, where I'm actually an engineer and rarely, only one occurrence, put my contract negotiation training to use.

And for those that don't know, the MTCR is rather relevant in my line of work as well. Though mainly noted as a missile and UAV proliferation deterrence measure, it actually does cover AUVs as well if their capabilities are beyond a specific threshold. I develop AIs for AUVs and write control code for their systems.

The particular details are irreverent since My primary point has been conceded by you.

The argument is always that , now the 'rules' have been modified, or, there was a loop hole exploited etc.

Its similar to how the Russians 'leased' us a nuclear submarine. ...... and how US kept quite while China transferred Nukes to pakistan.

Political expedience IS the RULES of the game, not some silly treaty or club membership. Those are for weak nations.

The strong nations always play by their own rules. So what applies for YOUR nation does not necessarily apply to India.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Rafale deal confirmed: An overview of its history and what this means for India
Jaideep Prabhu Sep 22, 2016 8:11 IST

As news broke late Wednesday evening that India and France had finally agreed upon the terms and conditions for the purchase of 36 Rafale jets by the former from the latter, it was probably greeted with relief rather than joy. Dassault, the French aviation company that manufactures the Rafale, had won the tender in January 2012 but had been locked in negotiations with the Indian government over the technical details ever since. When Narendra Modi came to office, he tried to break the impasse and India initiated talks directly with the French government for an inter-government agreement but even that, until just a month ago, seemed to be going nowhere. The conclusion of the deal, to be signed on 23 September, will be a relief to the Indian Air Force as well as Dassault. The first planes will begin to arrive 36 months hence and the entire order will be completed a further 30 months from then.

In fact, India's search for a medium multi-role combat aircraft had begun almost a decade ago in August 2007 when finances finally allowed the IAF to begin replacing its aging fleet of MiGs. Four companies participated in the competition - Saab, Mikoyan, Lockheed and of course, Dassault. The Rafale's similarities to the Mirage 2000 that the IAF already operated, its lower life-cycle costs, and its naval and nuclear strike variants clinched the deal for Dassault.

Although the deal was originally envisaged to be for 126 aircraft with an option of 74 more, the final agreement has settled around 36 jets. Projected to cost $12 billion in 2012, that figure has also come down to $7.88 billion. However, India has managed to negotiate for several bells and whistles in the smaller deal and it is reported that the agreed upon price is around $750 million less than what the previous government was willing to pay.

Dassault has agreed to make India-specific modifications to the planes, allowing the integration of Israeli helmet-mounted displays. Additionally, MBDA, the European missile manufacturer, will provide Meteor, an air-to-air missile with a beyond-visual-range over 100 km, and Storm Shadow (known as Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général or SCALP in the French military), an air-launched cruise missile with a range of over 560 km, with the Rafales. Both these acquisitions will significantly improve the reach of the IAF, allowing them to shoot deep into enemy airspace or territory without crossing any international boundaries. Integration of the Brahmos-NG, a smaller version of the Brahmos supersonic missile, will make the Rafale a lethal platform by land or sea.

A complete transfer of technology, including for the Thales RBE2-AA radar and software source code, spare parts, maintenance, training, and a guarantee of 75 percent operational availability for the first five years takes the price of the package up from a base price of $3.8 billion for just the Rafales to the final number. A 50 percent offset agreement obligates Dassault to re-invest half the money from the deal in India again, creating hundreds of new jobs.

India's decision to buy only 36 planes, barely two squadrons, seems puzzling at first. They will not fill the gap in the IAF's numbers and nor will the Rafale's nuclear capability add much to the Indian offensive toolkit. One can only assume that once the first set of jets are delivered, a further order will be placed to augment the existing numbers, including naval variants. This is even more likely if Dassault begins to manufacture in India - with the transfer of technology, it would be easy to domestically ramp up numbers as India has done with the Sukhoi.

The Rafale's primary role is to replace the IAF's retiring fleet: while the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is expected to step in at the low end, the Rafale will occupy the mid-level force structure with the expectation that an advanced indigenous descendant of the Tejas or the fifth generation fighter that India is jointly developing with Russia will form the top of the line component.

Immediately, the Rafale is expected to give India the dominant status in the air. Wedded to airborne control systems, the Rafale and its armaments can essentially hit enemy targets while staying out of range of their fighter jets. Though not the essential component of a future cross-border strike, the Rafale can provide the additional firepower if needed. As the IAF's description of the tender suggests, the Rafale is a multi-role platform that can be deployed for air dominance, ground support, aerial reconnaissance, and nuclear delivery. The Rafale has already been used in all these capacities - except the last, of course - in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, and Iraq and maintained a high operational rate throughout.

Neither the Rafale nor any other weapons system will give the side possessing it the ultimate advantage in battle and such expectations are foolish. Nonetheless, the Rafale, when it arrives, will substantially augment the Indian Air Force's capabilities in several mission profiles and put India's hostile neighbours on notice. An additional acquisition of domestically manufactured Rafales post-2021 would buy the Indian defence establishment time to complete its advanced fighter aircraft for the IAF. For an enervated service, the arrival of the Rafales will be a breath of fresh air.

http://m.firstpost.com/world/rafale...ry-and-what-this-means-for-india-3014872.html
+++
Interesting what it said here.. most of the points are covered already. Why its significant for me to post here is bcz its a firstpost article.

• It talks about IAF+IN mix which i said here before
• It talks about MII possibly
  • This is even more likely if Dassault begins to manufacture in India - with the transfer of technology, it would be easy to domestically ramp up numbers as India has done with the Sukhoi.
• Lastly it said one specific line
  • An additional acquisition of domestically manufactured Rafales post-2021 would buy the Indian defence establishment time to complete its advanced fighter aircraft for the IAF

To understand this line significance one has to understand what could be the timeline to have this work really.

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-346#post-8697204

• Indeed if what article is hinting as a possibility is what i have said so many times here.
• The comparison with the fleet being ramped up as done with Su 30MKI is also significant bcz we know what kind of big numbers we have finally of MKI

Lets see how it unfolds.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Spectre @hellfire @Vergennes @Picdelamirand-oil @Armani @Taygibay @R!CK @GuardianRED @randomradio @BON PLAN @nair @[Bregs]

 

[GuardianRED]

Rafale deal confirmed: An overview of its history and what this means for India
Jaideep Prabhu Sep 22, 2016 8:11 IST

As news broke late Wednesday evening that India and France had finally agreed upon the terms and conditions for the purchase of 36 Rafale jets by the former from the latter, it was probably greeted with relief rather than joy. Dassault, the French aviation company that manufactures the Rafale, had won the tender in January 2012 but had been locked in negotiations with the Indian government over the technical details ever since. When Narendra Modi came to office, he tried to break the impasse and India initiated talks directly with the French government for an inter-government agreement but even that, until just a month ago, seemed to be going nowhere. The conclusion of the deal, to be signed on 23 September, will be a relief to the Indian Air Force as well as Dassault. The first planes will begin to arrive 36 months hence and the entire order will be completed a further 30 months from then.

In fact, India's search for a medium multi-role combat aircraft had begun almost a decade ago in August 2007 when finances finally allowed the IAF to begin replacing its aging fleet of MiGs. Four companies participated in the competition - Saab, Mikoyan, Lockheed and of course, Dassault. The Rafale's similarities to the Mirage 2000 that the IAF already operated, its lower life-cycle costs, and its naval and nuclear strike variants clinched the deal for Dassault.

Although the deal was originally envisaged to be for 126 aircraft with an option of 74 more, the final agreement has settled around 36 jets. Projected to cost $12 billion in 2012, that figure has also come down to $7.88 billion. However, India has managed to negotiate for several bells and whistles in the smaller deal and it is reported that the agreed upon price is around $750 million less than what the previous government was willing to pay.

Dassault has agreed to make India-specific modifications to the planes, allowing the integration of Israeli helmet-mounted displays. Additionally, MBDA, the European missile manufacturer, will provide Meteor, an air-to-air missile with a beyond-visual-range over 100 km, and Storm Shadow (known as Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général or SCALP in the French military), an air-launched cruise missile with a range of over 560 km, with the Rafales. Both these acquisitions will significantly improve the reach of the IAF, allowing them to shoot deep into enemy airspace or territory without crossing any international boundaries. Integration of the Brahmos-NG, a smaller version of the Brahmos supersonic missile, will make the Rafale a lethal platform by land or sea.

A complete transfer of technology, including for the Thales RBE2-AA radar and software source code, spare parts, maintenance, training, and a guarantee of 75 percent operational availability for the first five years takes the price of the package up from a base price of $3.8 billion for just the Rafales to the final number. A 50 percent offset agreement obligates Dassault to re-invest half the money from the deal in India again, creating hundreds of new jobs.

India's decision to buy only 36 planes, barely two squadrons, seems puzzling at first. They will not fill the gap in the IAF's numbers and nor will the Rafale's nuclear capability add much to the Indian offensive toolkit. One can only assume that once the first set of jets are delivered, a further order will be placed to augment the existing numbers, including naval variants. This is even more likely if Dassault begins to manufacture in India - with the transfer of technology, it would be easy to domestically ramp up numbers as India has done with the Sukhoi.

The Rafale's primary role is to replace the IAF's retiring fleet: while the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is expected to step in at the low end, the Rafale will occupy the mid-level force structure with the expectation that an advanced indigenous descendant of the Tejas or the fifth generation fighter that India is jointly developing with Russia will form the top of the line component.

Immediately, the Rafale is expected to give India the dominant status in the air. Wedded to airborne control systems, the Rafale and its armaments can essentially hit enemy targets while staying out of range of their fighter jets. Though not the essential component of a future cross-border strike, the Rafale can provide the additional firepower if needed. As the IAF's description of the tender suggests, the Rafale is a multi-role platform that can be deployed for air dominance, ground support, aerial reconnaissance, and nuclear delivery. The Rafale has already been used in all these capacities - except the last, of course - in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, and Iraq and maintained a high operational rate throughout.

Neither the Rafale nor any other weapons system will give the side possessing it the ultimate advantage in battle and such expectations are foolish. Nonetheless, the Rafale, when it arrives, will substantially augment the Indian Air Force's capabilities in several mission profiles and put India's hostile neighbours on notice. An additional acquisition of domestically manufactured Rafales post-2021 would buy the Indian defence establishment time to complete its advanced fighter aircraft for the IAF. For an enervated service, the arrival of the Rafales will be a breath of fresh air.

http://m.firstpost.com/world/rafale...ry-and-what-this-means-for-india-3014872.html
+++
Interesting what it said here.. most of the points are covered already. Why its significant for me to post here is bcz its a firstpost article.

• It talks about IAF+IN mix which i said here before
• It talks about MII possibly
  • This is even more likely if Dassault begins to manufacture in India - with the transfer of technology, it would be easy to domestically ramp up numbers as India has done with the Sukhoi.
• Lastly it said one specific line
  • An additional acquisition of domestically manufactured Rafales post-2021 would buy the Indian defence establishment time to complete its advanced fighter aircraft for the IAF

To understand this line significance one has to understand what could be the timeline to have this work really.

View attachment 336922
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-346#post-8697204

• Indeed if what article is hinting as a possibility is what i have said so many times here.
• The comparison with the fleet being ramped up as done with Su 30MKI is also significant bcz we know what kind of big numbers we have finally of MKI

Lets see how it unfolds.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Spectre @hellfire @Vergennes @Picdelamirand-oil @Armani @Taygibay @R!CK @GuardianRED @randomradio @BON PLAN @nair @[Bregs]

So simply putting it, the time between now and when the final French built rafale lands in india. The ground works for local production would be almost complete (local vendors), thus IF a new deal is signed, the time taken to complete a Indian Built Rafale is small and rapid!

 

[#hydra#]

You then are wrong on details only :

1- Dassault has agreed - is meaningless. All manufacturers incl. Ru do so on request.
India has agreed to the price of integration is more like it.

2- Meteor is 115 ++; Storm Shadow is Brit and covered in mint sauce, SCALP_EG is
French and EG means Extra Gupta oeuf corse as in the ultimate protector; but the
range will be 299.999999999 kms not 560.

3- Not quite full ToT as you describe it, mate! That simply doesn't exist and not even
all software source code. For a minor example of what this means In Real Life :
You will be able to make as full a use of Spectra as you can but the threat libraries
will be blank. We won't give you the signatures of our British and American allies'
F22 and Typhoon; you'll need to build those up yourself.

... and a mini-Bhramos won't make the Rafale a lethal platform : it already is/was!



4- No errors there.

G'dday, Tay.

F22 signatures, u r kidding right.... Ohk let's assume that frenchmen got f22 signatures while joint exercise,will rafale be able to detect f22 before being shoot down in bvr by raptor?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

F22 signatures, u r kidding right.... Ohk let's assume that frenchmen got f22 signatures while joint exercise,will Rafale be able to detect f22 before being shoot down in bvr by raptor?

Spectra when was launched and integrated into active missions did not have any signature in its library. Indeed even if the capabilities of some of the fighters are compromised under exercise conditions, i wont be surprised if Spectra library has added such emissions recorded during extensive exercises and in certain times with no capability downgrade. In a similar way, even USA would have got a good look in into Rafale to understand where their own jack of all trades, master of none F35 stands vs a vs the Rafales and EFs.

Its a very famous case that in one of the joint exercise a Rafale pilot was very keen to add the emission signature of Su30 MKI in order to get tactical advantage. Its nothing bad as India is going to get a part in Spectra itself and will share their own library collections due to a very diversified fleet it operates and also due to number of joint exercises it does with multiple other candidates. if it does not do that, Spectra library for IAF will come blank and will need efforts for at least 3-5 years to build up this library and get its jet to every known place in joint exercise

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @R!CK @randomradio @nair @ranjeet @hellfire @GuardianRED etc.

Not adding that the Rafale deal would boost the trade between India and France which amounted to €8,548 Bn last year. (According to government figures)

France's exports to India amounted to €3,176Bn in 2015. (Out of €654Bn of exports)
India's exports to France amounted to €5,372Bn in 2015. (Out of €685Bn of imports.)

Sir, I think its Mn

This link gives a very good detail and its official
http://www.ambinde.fr/economic-and-commerce/india-france-relations/india-france-commercial-relations

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Spectra when was launched and integrated into active missions did not have any signature in its library. Indeed even if the capabilities of some of the fighters are compromised under exercise conditions, i wont be surprised if Spectra library has not added such emissions recorded during extensive exercises and in certain times with no capability downgrade. In a similar way, even USA would have got a good look in into Rafale to understand where their own jack of all trades, master of none F35 stands vs a vs the Rafales and EFs.

Its a very famous case that in one of the joint exercise a Rafale pilot was very keen to add the emission signature of Su30 MKI in order to get tactical advantage. Its nothing bad as India is going to get a part in Spectra itself and will share their own library collections due to a very diversified fleet it operates and also due to number of joint exercises it does with multiple other candidates. if it does not do that, Spectra library for IAF will come blank and will need efforts for at least 3-5 ears to build up this library and get its jet to every known place in joint exercise


Sir, I think its Mn

This link gives a very good detail and its official
http://www.ambinde.fr/economic-and-commerce/india-france-relations/india-france-commercial-relations

Hello Sir ; in the current environment ; there is no real excitement about Rafale

Everybody wants to know about what and when something will happen

 

[indo]

What about the 1 billion investment in kaveri program. Is it still on ? @PARIKRAMA

 

[#hydra#]

Spectra when was launched and integrated into active missions did not have any signature in its library. Indeed even if the capabilities of some of the fighters are compromised under exercise conditions, i wont be surprised if Spectra library has added such emissions recorded during extensive exercises and in certain times with no capability downgrade. In a similar way, even USA would have got a good look in into Rafale to understand where their own jack of all trades, master of none F35 stands vs a vs the Rafales and EFs.

Its a very famous case that in one of the joint exercise a Rafale pilot was very keen to add the emission signature of Su30 MKI in order to get tactical advantage. Its nothing bad as India is going to get a part in Spectra itself and will share their own library collections due to a very diversified fleet it operates and also due to number of joint exercises it does with multiple other candidates. if it does not do that, Spectra library for IAF will come blank and will need efforts for at least 3-5 years to build up this library and get its jet to every known place in joint exercise


Sir, I think its Mn

This link gives a very good detail and its official
http://www.ambinde.fr/economic-and-commerce/india-france-relations/india-france-commercial-relations

But AFAIK uncle Sam used to send 22s in exercise by deliberately increasing its radar cross section. Then how the French acquired data will help in tackling 22s.

 

[randomradio]

Sir, I think its Mn

Here's the data from the french customs services.

View attachment 336931
You can find it here ;

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/po...s-economiques-pays-par-pays/asie/article/inde

The French use comma as a decimal point. That creates problems for us.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The French use comma as a decimal point. That creates problems for us.

Then Let us delay the signing and check the documents again

BC ; baad me pata chala CHUNA laga diya to gayi BJP

 

[Vergennes]

The French use comma as a decimal point. That creates problems for us.

Then Let us delay the signing and check the documents again

BC ; baad me pata chala CHUNA laga diya to gayi BJP

Ok,let's forget my posts that lead to confusion and enjoy nice Rafale pics/videos before the signature !

@PARIKRAMA @ranjeet @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @Ankit Kumar 002 @anant_s @GuardianRED @Nilgiri @mkb95 @mirage @hellfire @SrNair @R!CK @proud_indian @Armani @surya kiran @thesolar65 @itachii @Nilgiri etc.

 

[GuardianRED]

Ok,let's forget my posts that lead to confusion and enjoy nice Rafale pics/videos before the signature !

View attachment 336944
View attachment 336945
View attachment 336946

View attachment 336952

View attachment 336948
View attachment 336949
View attachment 336950
View attachment 336951


@PARIKRAMA @ranjeet @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar @Ankit Kumar 002 @anant_s @GuardianRED @Nilgiri @mkb95 @mirage @hellfire @SrNair @R!CK @proud_indian @Armani @surya kiran @thesolar65 @itachii @Nilgiri etc.

Simply Amazing! Thanks (just realize that the Flight stick is to the Left)

 

[Nilgiri]

Mostly in French but lots of info in this video, if anyone wants translation of any part...just give me or the others the timestamp (or use auto generate subs at your risk ):

@Vergennes @Taygibay

 

[Taygibay]

thus IF a new deal is signed, the time taken to complete a Indian Built Rafale is small and rapid!

Best case, same as in France : 2+ years from first piece to final product.

F22 signatures, u r kidding right.... Ohk let's assume that frenchmen got f22 signatures while joint exercise,will rafale be able to detect f22 before being shoot down in bvr by raptor?

The two fighters know each other well enough. The TriLat ex, Al-Dhafra '09 and,
in the beginning the one below.
And that thing to make a Raptor bigger on radar is a Luneburg lens or RCS enhancer.

Its a very famous case that in one of the joint exercise a Rafale pilot was very keen to add the emission signature of Su30 MKI in order to get tactical advantage.

Yes and the first time Raffys recorded MKI and vice-versa was Red Flag 2008-04
which is also where & when the Raptor was a surprise first encounter for us.
All encounters face to face in this instance.

Sir, I think its Mn

In 2015, the total trade in goods between France and India was worth € 8.54 billion, registering an increase of 7.91% from 2014. India’s exports to France were valued at € 5.37 billion (+2.96%) whereas French exports to India totalled € 3.17 billion (+17.47%).

From the link to the Indian embassy you gave, and so yes, trillions of €.

Good day all, Tay.