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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Morocco has got F 16 ; I dint know that :rofl:

Its true, i remember finding out about it because of a coworker freaking out as her fiancee was flying one there for delivery to the MAF(?) and she was worried safety wise as there was an F-16 crash off the coast of Japan at the time...
 
It seems to me that they bought the F-16 too much recently to shift to Rafale now.
possible.. But they have also sent feelers for Su34 and subs as i said few posts above.. Their contention is that Block 52+ is not as per what they require for their campaigns..
 
Source based news
  • India's window of opportunity is limited here for Rafale signature timeline
  • Mailer yesterday night suggests a new request has come out from Morocco for Rafales
  • Its yet to be confirmed whether this is serious or its just a window shopping request to keep everyone interested.
  • Morocco in past have tried acquiring Rafales but deals did not mature.
  • The presumed date of November 15 is cited for Prz Francois Hollande for a visit and sealing of this deal if all talks by then are matured and deal is given a go ahead by Moroccon President..
  • The numbers are not revealed as of now but expected to replace F-16s
  • Expectation is Morocco may request a expedited order.
  • This implies India needs to get its act together for a possible signing before that in order to match the timelines already stated.
  • In case the deal happens with Morocco, it opens a new customer and further avenues for more Rafales in other places as well.

@Vergennes @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Taygibay @anant_s @MilSpec @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @others
About Morocco : no such news yet in France....

Morocco has got F 16 ; I dint know that :rofl:
The Rafale deal with Morocco failed in 2007, only for internal french reason.... (A fiasco !). USA offer a Financial help and that help to sell 24 F16.
So sad for us.

But I don't imagine they will scrap these relatively new planes. But they have upgraded Mirage F1 (fitted with Mica and AASM !) .... needed a replacement? why not.

They are not the only ones with whom Morocco is talking. They are talking with Russia on Su-34 also.. and possibly a deal of either a lada or amur 1650 sub as well.. Thats why i said as per source it can be window dressing as well as its not fully confirmable.
Su34? probably no, because already ordered by Algeria. And Algeria and Morocco are not the best friends of the world.
 
If the intent is there, Morocco deal will be no different to that of Egypt. It will be for a total of 24 units with an option for further 12 units. The whole negotiation phase will be centered on the same package, therefore requires very little time. No reason for financing also to be any different from the Egypt deal.

morocco.png


  • F-5: 20 F-5E (1980s) 12 F-5E (1990) [24 F-5E upgraded to F-5TIII standard]
  • Mirage F1: 30 Mirage F1CHs (1978-79) 20 Mirage F1EHs [27 upgraded to ASTRAC MF2000 standard]
  • F-16: 24 C/D Block 52+ (2011-2012)

Looking at their current fleet, its not necessary that Rafales are to replace F-16, but rather augment the F-16 by replacing other legacy platforms in the fleet. Majority of their legacy platforms are nearing its end of service time-frame.

Good Day!
 
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And perhaps there is too much string attached?
  • Long term loans requested.
  • Submarines wanted from Russia for a force to take on Algerians sub fleet for parity purpose.
  • Russia ready to give line of credit for financing such purchases..
  • Algerians are looking to procure French weapons so by opting for Rafales or with Su34, Morocco wishes to regain edge over Algerians.
  • Algeria already operates Russian jets so there also a question whether such a acquisition from Russia will give them any kind of advantage or not.
  • Thrown in the mix is a Algeria wanting 10+ Su35 to be bought soon
  • Thus Rafale gives them a counter due to both A2A and A2G roles along with F16 Blk 52+
  • Also old Dassault's jets even though upgraded cant counter more modern jets like the Su34 and later Su35.
  • Morocco thus needs to make a decision which enables them to have some breathing space.
 
Source based news
  • India's window of opportunity is limited here for Rafale signature timeline
  • Mailer yesterday night suggests a new request has come out from Morocco for Rafales
  • Its yet to be confirmed whether this is serious or its just a window shopping request to keep everyone interested.
  • Morocco in past have tried acquiring Rafales but deals did not mature.
  • The presumed date of November 15 is cited for Prz Francois Hollande for a visit and sealing of this deal if all talks by then are matured and deal is given a go ahead by Moroccon President..
  • The numbers are not revealed as of now but expected to replace F-16s
  • Expectation is Morocco may request a expedited order.
  • This implies India needs to get its act together for a possible signing before that in order to match the timelines already stated.
  • In case the deal happens with Morocco, it opens a new customer and further avenues for more Rafales in other places as well.

@Vergennes @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Taygibay @anant_s @MilSpec @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @others

Several high level discussions occured between France and Morocco since february concerning the Rafale ( and other military equipments ). Same with Malaysia, Canada, UAE, Finland, Belgium and 3 other potential customers.
For the Rafale production capacity at Mérignac, I give a clue by saying that in 2018 SAFRAN will produce 85 M88s.
 
@PARIKRAMA

India's Deal for 36 Dassault Rafale Stealth Fighter Jets Reaches Final Phase

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160903/1044935772/india-dassault-rafale-fighter-jet.html


The Rafale fighter jet is believed to be the most dangerous warplane in the skies today combining semi-stealth capabilities with unparalleled thrust maneuvering providing air superiority.

Thx Bro,
+++ the article+++

The Rafale fighter jet is believed to be the most dangerous warplane in the skies today combining semi-stealth capabilities with unparalleled thrust maneuvering providing air superiority.

India’s quest to modernize its fighter aircraft fleet with the acquisition of 36 Rafale multirole fighter jets appears set to become a reality as the deal has been transmitted to the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) for final approval. The deal follows January negotiations between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande on an intergovernmental agreement providing for the sale of Dassault Rafale fighter jets to India.

The transmission of the acquisition file to the Prime Minister came as the Ministry of Defense cleared the negotiation committee’s report to be sent to the Cabinet Committee for Security (CCS) which consists of the Prime Minister’s Office, the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of External Affairs, the Ministry of Finance, and the Ministry of Defense

The 36 fighter jets are to be acquired for $8.8 billion and include advanced weapon systems modified for the Rafale including the Meteor beyond visual range (BVR) missile adding substantial lethality to the warplane. Initially, the deal was projected to be for $11.2 billion before New Delhi negotiated the price down threatening to walk if the arrangement was too expensive.

The 1,188 mile per hour Dassault Rafale is slower than a number of fourth generation fighter jets, but fits into the category of 4.5 generation fighter jets – with some analysts considering it a full-force fifth generation jet – due to its semi-stealth capabilities.

The Dassault is not a full-spectrum stealth aircraft, but its design reduces radar cross-section (RCS) and it has a minimal infrared signature due to modifications of the tail-fin, fuselage, engine placement as well as the use of composite materials and serrated patterns for construction of the wing edges.

As a result, the fighter jet possesses many of the same stealth capabilities of the high-cost American F-35 fighter jet
at less than half the unit cost of the beleaguered Lockheed warplane making it a favored vehicle for reconnaissance and anti-ship strike missions while still possessing air superiority.

+++


Rarely i have read sputnik praising Rafale so much... They still compare on speed which is an old way of seeing things .. But the rest and specifically the half the cost of F35.It tells you what i said how USA wants us top seriously look at F35 and how Russia knows Rafale is not a threat but any american jet like F35 is to their own sales and support for super sukhois and FGFA/PAKFA.

Several high level discussions occured between France and Morocco since february concerning the Rafale ( and other military equipments ). Same with Malaysia, Canada, UAE, Finland, Belgium and 3 other potential customers.
For the Rafale production capacity at Mérignac, I give a clue by saying that in 2018 SAFRAN will produce 85 M88s.
good to see you back.. did you check your PM.. had discussed regarding your professional title with webby. Kindly do the needful for the same.

Also request you to post more regularly.. you are a vital asset to us as well as in other forum (ind def)

@Picdelamirand-oil - hope it answers your question..
 
Several high level discussions occured between France and Morocco since february concerning the Rafale ( and other military equipments ). Same with Malaysia, Canada, UAE, Finland, Belgium and 3 other potential customers.
For the Rafale production capacity at Mérignac, I give a clue by saying that in 2018 SAFRAN will produce 85 M88s.
For Morocco : first time this week I read that.... a stealth nego?

85 M88 ? ie nearly 35 - 40 fighters (with spares). => 33 planes from Mérignac and some others from another line ???
 
Source says

  1. In G20 there was a short meeting between PM NaMo and Prez Hollande on the sidelines where both leaders pull aside each other, sat and talked...
  2. A verbal invitation has been given by PM NaMo for Rafale approval which he says will be intimated soon post necessary procedures (read CCS approval)
  3. Also discussed is Scorpene data theft issue and how India feel's France should help some new tech upgrades for the same.
  4. Prez Hollande said he has got to hear via Jean-Yves Le Drian and via Ambassador Alexandre Ziegler about the apprehensions of scorpene data theft as well as about the relationship progress in all other defence matters including Rafales.
  5. Prez Hollande assured that France will do everything to strengthen and solidify the defence relationship and will ensure India does not feel any apprehensions as well as any doubt on French weapon systems or fear of future security breaches.
  6. Prez Hollande said that he will work out a suitable date for the meet to formally sign as and when India formally sends the invitation out and said to have assured that he will be there for India France friendship moment.
  7. Prez Hollande also said Rafales produced in India will be given full support from French government side and in case of any issue or roadblock, he has assured PM NaMo to look into the same personally.
  8. Both PM NaMo and Prez Hollande agreed that DM MP + NSA Doval from Indian side and DM Le Drian + Amb Ziegler from French side should discuss more for all strategic project cooperation in order to expedite the things.

@Abingdonboy @MilSpec @Vergennes @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002 @Taygibay @surya kiran @GuardianRED @R!CK @Aero @Stephen Cohen https://defence.pk/members/bregs.148509/ @hellfire @randomradio @others
 
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Prez Hollande also said Rafales produced in India will be given full support from French government side and in case of any issue or roadblock, he has assured PM NaMo to look into the same personally.

This to me is a clearest indication that India is still negotiating for Rafales beyond 36 off the shelf purchase and they seem to be on track.:yahoo:
 
Source says

Prez Hollande also said Rafales produced in India will be given full support from French government side and in case of any issue or roadblock, he has assured PM NaMo to look into the same personally.
So there will be "Rafale produced in India" added to the 36 in fly away conditions already to be signed in the Rafale approval moment.
 

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