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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

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https://twitter.com/x/status/756166234534739968

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Dassault cuts Falcon jet delivery forecast as first-half profit falls
PARIS | BY TIM HEPHER AND CYRIL ALTMEYER
) cut its delivery forecast for Falcon business jets by 17 percent after posting lower first-half operating income and revenue on Thursday, hit by a price battle in the economically sensitive business jet market.

The family-controlled maker of business jets and Rafale warplanes said it would deliver 50 Falcon jets in 2016, down from a previous target of 60, and 55 deliveries in 2015.

Chief Executive Eric Trappier said the first half had been marked by economic and geopolitical uncertainty, including the decision by UK voters to leave the European Union, prompting some buyers to defer taking decisions on purchasing luxury jets.

"There is strong pressure on prices across the whole range," he told a news conference, adding that Canadian rival Bombardier was "certainly the most aggressive in cutting prices."

A spokesman for Bombardier (BBDb.TO) responded, "We are in a very competitive market right now. We don’t believe any single (manufacturer) is impacted any more than another, and all are facing the same pressures."

Trappier also said ample availability of second-hand planes was piling pressure on prices.

Dassault Aviation's first-half operating profit fell to 125 million euros($137.66 million) from 144 million as revenue slipped to 1.662 billion euros from 1.675 billion.

The French company slowed down R&D spending.

Analysts were on average expecting stable operating profit of 143 million euros on sales of 1.51 billion.

Weakening or sluggish economies around the globe are taking a toll on business jet sales, forestalling an incipient recovery that had raised the hopes of planemakers last year.

"We are getting ready for low levels for some time ... in terms of production," Trappier said.

Falcon revenues fell to 853 million euros from 919 million as Dassault delivered 15 jets, three fewer than the first half of last year. New orders for the jets fell to 22 from 25.

Dassault said it expects to deliver its first Falcon 8X version in the fourth quarter as planned.

The Falcon 5X has already been pushed back to 2020 from 2017 due to problems in developing the Silvercrest engine at France's Safran (SAF.PA) and Trappier said Dassault was now in talks to receive penalty payments

The company reaffirmed its full-year revenues were expected to fall in 2016, compared with 2015, which had been boosted by a Mirage 2000 fighter modernization project in India.

($1 = 0.9080 euros)

On the defense business, Trappier said Dassault had concluded detailed discussions over the sale of 36 combat jets to India and was waiting for a final Indian decision.

He also said Dassault is responding to a new request for information from Canada for a possible fighter purchase but that it remains unclear whether Ottawa is ready to buy non-U.S. jets.

He took a swipe at the Lockheed Martin (LMT.N) F-35 fighter previously chosen by Canada, which staged its first major international appearance at air shows in Britain last week.

"It may not be the airplane for them," he said, adding that the displays, while popular with UK aviations fans, had demonstrated a lack of maneuverability needed for air defense.

U.S. officials say the F-35 is as maneuverable and capable as most current jets, despite some studies that showed a gap. But they argue the jet will probably never see air-to-air combat because of its superior radar and stealthy coatings which allow it to see enemy jets long before they could be engaged.



(Additional reporting by Andrea Shalal. Editing by Jane Merriman, Susan Thomas and Alexandra Hudson)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-dassault-avi-results-idUKKCN1012HZ


++
I said that .. is nt it?
Now you know DM MP was resisiting signing for the sake of differing payments to later dates,,

From April end onwards this game is ON
Right when in Jan PM NaMo and Prez Hollande met the timeline was 4 weeks converted to months and from that time onwards its our own side which is dragging it ... Unfortunately BJP twitter announcing PM NaMo and crediting him for rafale only created more issues,,

Its good that French side is patient enough.. and yes of course in the end its we whose making a mockery of prolonging an impending signature
++


kaykay said:
Big statement. Though this melodrama will go on for few more weeks if not months before deal will be signed.
Click to expand...
Yes, thats true..
I am expecting a strong anti Rafale campaign.. I expect Saab and LM and Sputnik - all to go on overdrive mode to discredit the deal.
 
. .
PARIKRAMA said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/756166234534739968

View attachment 319636


Dassault cuts Falcon jet delivery forecast as first-half profit falls
PARIS | BY TIM HEPHER AND CYRIL ALTMEYER
) cut its delivery forecast for Falcon business jets by 17 percent after posting lower first-half operating income and revenue on Thursday, hit by a price battle in the economically sensitive business jet market.

The family-controlled maker of business jets and Rafale warplanes said it would deliver 50 Falcon jets in 2016, down from a previous target of 60, and 55 deliveries in 2015.

Chief Executive Eric Trappier said the first half had been marked by economic and geopolitical uncertainty, including the decision by UK voters to leave the European Union, prompting some buyers to defer taking decisions on purchasing luxury jets.

"There is strong pressure on prices across the whole range," he told a news conference, adding that Canadian rival Bombardier was "certainly the most aggressive in cutting prices."

A spokesman for Bombardier (BBDb.TO) responded, "We are in a very competitive market right now. We don’t believe any single (manufacturer) is impacted any more than another, and all are facing the same pressures."

Trappier also said ample availability of second-hand planes was piling pressure on prices.

Dassault Aviation's first-half operating profit fell to 125 million euros($137.66 million) from 144 million as revenue slipped to 1.662 billion euros from 1.675 billion.

The French company slowed down R&D spending.

Analysts were on average expecting stable operating profit of 143 million euros on sales of 1.51 billion.

Weakening or sluggish economies around the globe are taking a toll on business jet sales, forestalling an incipient recovery that had raised the hopes of planemakers last year.

"We are getting ready for low levels for some time ... in terms of production," Trappier said.

Falcon revenues fell to 853 million euros from 919 million as Dassault delivered 15 jets, three fewer than the first half of last year. New orders for the jets fell to 22 from 25.

Dassault said it expects to deliver its first Falcon 8X version in the fourth quarter as planned.

The Falcon 5X has already been pushed back to 2020 from 2017 due to problems in developing the Silvercrest engine at France's Safran (SAF.PA) and Trappier said Dassault was now in talks to receive penalty payments

The company reaffirmed its full-year revenues were expected to fall in 2016, compared with 2015, which had been boosted by a Mirage 2000 fighter modernization project in India.

($1 = 0.9080 euros)

On the defense business, Trappier said Dassault had concluded detailed discussions over the sale of 36 combat jets to India and was waiting for a final Indian decision.

He also said Dassault is responding to a new request for information from Canada for a possible fighter purchase but that it remains unclear whether Ottawa is ready to buy non-U.S. jets.

He took a swipe at the Lockheed Martin (LMT.N) F-35 fighter previously chosen by Canada, which staged its first major international appearance at air shows in Britain last week.

"It may not be the airplane for them," he said, adding that the displays, while popular with UK aviations fans, had demonstrated a lack of maneuverability needed for air defense.

U.S. officials say the F-35 is as maneuverable and capable as most current jets, despite some studies that showed a gap. But they argue the jet will probably never see air-to-air combat because of its superior radar and stealthy coatings which allow it to see enemy jets long before they could be engaged.



(Additional reporting by Andrea Shalal. Editing by Jane Merriman, Susan Thomas and Alexandra Hudson)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-dassault-avi-results-idUKKCN1012HZ


++
I said that .. is nt it?
Now you know DM MP was resisiting signing for the sake of differing payments to later dates,,

From April end onwards this game is ON
Right when in Jan PM NaMo and Prez Hollande met the timeline was 4 weeks converted to months and from that time onwards its our own side which is dragging it ... Unfortunately BJP twitter announcing PM NaMo and crediting him for rafale only created more issues,,

Its good that French side is patient enough.. and yes of course in the end its we whose making a mockery of prolonging an impending signature
++



Yes, thats true..
I am expecting a strong anti Rafale campaign.. I expect Saab and LM and Sputnik - all to go on overdrive mode to discredit the deal.
Click to expand...

Brain says it will happen after December only (given the Indo Russian December annual summit )
But Heart Says it will be a bit sooner....

However , now that the deal is linked directly with the French government , its not Dassualt alone reaping the benefits .... but AirBus, Eurocopter , Nexter , Thales and DCNS will be getting a bigger pie together with Dassault.
 
Last edited:
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Lockheed Martin to offer F-35 to India ?
Published July 23, 2016

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

54ca6c3d37d8f_-_jsf-630-0608.jpg


According to a report prepared by Financial Express , after Lockheed Martin failed to create Indian interest in their legacy F-16 fighter jets , is currently preparing to offer its latest 5th generation F-35A to Indian Air force to meet its requirements for 90 combat fighter jets above 36 Rafale fighter jets currently been negotiated with France .

The report also mentions that India has officially turned down ” Make in India ” F-16 offer from Lockheed Martin and is currently going through proposals submitted by Swedish SAAB for their Gripen E and American Boeing’s F-18s combat fighter jets with Transfer of Technology to be made in India .

F-35A reported per unit cost is 98$ million with additional funds required for weapons ,spares and training support . Defence analyst close to idrw.org do not believe Lockheed Martin will offer Transfer of Technology (TOT) nor will agree to Make it in India , most likely it will offer to establish local supply chain in India for its maintenance and components but it is unlikely to see any interest in India’s Defence ministry .

India is already negotiating with Russia for the development of 5t generation FGFA based on Sukhoi’s T-50 design and has committed to contribute 4 $ Billion each in its development with committed orders for 114 units of this Indo-Russia developed 5th generation Heavy Class fighter which will be slotted above current Air superiority fighter jets like Sukhoi-30 MKI .

India also plans to kickstart its own 5th generation multirole fighter jet programme AMCA by the end of this year for which Defence ministry and various Aerospace developmental and production agencies in India are waiting for official clearance to the project from the government with project budget allocation, timelines and collaborations to be cleared soon .

http://idrw.org/source-idrw-news-network/

+++
Comments

The article only describes what was told by me a good time back and reiterated a week plus back
  1. Small correction - Deal offerred was F16-F35 upgradation package
  2. Original F16 route was 160 and 60 F35 which has been now reduced to 90 F16 and 65-67 F35 (75% of F16 fleet)
  3. There was a separate proposal for procuring 65 F35 (4 squadrons) with no TOT for appeasing USA in case we dont buy any american jets and no MII line for them
  4. This order directly competes with 65-100 (not more than 100) PAKFA Stage 1 jets which is being planned for procurement in 2021-26 timeline . That is the back up plan of DM MP for squadron strength issue.
  5. Time and again DM MP has talked about technology transfer, no conditionalities/strings and what really is being offerred other than marketing gimmicks.
  6. Its been said DM MP is not convinced with either of LM, Saab and Boeing offer till date. And all of them keep coming with revised offers to convince him.
  7. The third angle to all this is Russia has requested India to look at Su35 officially in Innoprom 2016 and have suggested a good number for quick induction. With commonality to Super upgrade, the planes will have most of the tech already shared with India. DM MP has yet not even considered the proposal and given it a thought.
 
.
PARIKRAMA said:
Lockheed Martin to offer F-35 to India ?
Published July 23, 2016

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

54ca6c3d37d8f_-_jsf-630-0608.jpg


According to a report prepared by Financial Express , after Lockheed Martin failed to create Indian interest in their legacy F-16 fighter jets , is currently preparing to offer its latest 5th generation F-35A to Indian Air force to meet its requirements for 90 combat fighter jets above 36 Rafale fighter jets currently been negotiated with France .

The report also mentions that India has officially turned down ” Make in India ” F-16 offer from Lockheed Martin and is currently going through proposals submitted by Swedish SAAB for their Gripen E and American Boeing’s F-18s combat fighter jets with Transfer of Technology to be made in India .

F-35A reported per unit cost is 98$ million with additional funds required for weapons ,spares and training support . Defence analyst close to idrw.org do not believe Lockheed Martin will offer Transfer of Technology (TOT) nor will agree to Make it in India , most likely it will offer to establish local supply chain in India for its maintenance and components but it is unlikely to see any interest in India’s Defence ministry .

India is already negotiating with Russia for the development of 5t generation FGFA based on Sukhoi’s T-50 design and has committed to contribute 4 $ Billion each in its development with committed orders for 114 units of this Indo-Russia developed 5th generation Heavy Class fighter which will be slotted above current Air superiority fighter jets like Sukhoi-30 MKI .

India also plans to kickstart its own 5th generation multirole fighter jet programme AMCA by the end of this year for which Defence ministry and various Aerospace developmental and production agencies in India are waiting for official clearance to the project from the government with project budget allocation, timelines and collaborations to be cleared soon .

http://idrw.org/source-idrw-news-network/

+++
Comments

The article only describes what was told by me a good time back and reiterated a week plus back
  1. Small correction - Deal offerred was F16-F35 upgradation package
  2. Original F16 route was 160 and 60 F35 which has been now reduced to 90 F16 and 65-67 F35 (75% of F16 fleet)
  3. There was a separate proposal for procuring 65 F35 (4 squadrons) with no TOT for appeasing USA in case we dont buy any american jets and no MII line for them
  4. This order directly competes with 65-100 (not more than 100) PAKFA Stage 1 jets which is being planned for procurement in 2021-26 timeline . That is the back up plan of DM MP for squadron strength issue.
  5. Time and again DM MP has talked about technology transfer, no conditionalities/strings and what really is being offerred other than marketing gimmicks.
  6. Its been said DM MP is not convinced with either of LM, Saab and Boeing offer till date. And all of them keep coming with revised offers to convince him.
  7. The third angle to all this is Russia has requested India to look at Su35 officially in Innoprom 2016 and have suggested a good number for quick induction. With commonality to Super upgrade, the planes will have most of the tech already shared with India. DM MP has yet not even considered the proposal and given it a thought.
Click to expand...

We can only say -- OMFG
 
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@Oscar @waz @mods & seniors here.

The subjected thread is being derailed/offtopic many times and now most of posts are about Indian procurement. Let this thread be specifically as per subject and @PARIKRAMA and others may post news & updates regarding Indian procurement in specific thread regarding IAF indcutions/plans (new or old) other than Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]. Just my opinion. @PARIKRAMA your words.
 
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It will be good if we convert this thread in Rafale and Make in India fighter aircraft thread or
We make a new sticky thread for Make in India fighter jet thread and stick to only Rafale news here only..

I would request the first one as its clear that all news are aimed at the Make in India part which is bifurcated from original MMRCA only..

Would look forward to suggestions on this..
 
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I think you guys should close this thread.. Just waste of bandwidth ... Our DM really sucks.. I expected alot from him.. Now he turned out be wrost in modi cabinet!! All whining...
 
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PARIKRAMA said:
It will be good if we convert this thread in Rafale and Make in India fighter aircraft thread or
We make a new sticky thread for Make in India fighter jet thread and stick to only Rafale news here only..

I would request the first one as its clear that all news are aimed at the Make in India part which is bifurcated from original MMRCA only..

Would look forward to suggestions on this..
Click to expand...

I think thread need to be remain as what it is as per subject, no conversion is needed however, a new thread for MMRCA / Make in India to be created so the readers may view and share as per interest of subject whether it is about Dassualt or MMRCA / Make in India / DM.
 
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The Eagle said:
@Oscar @waz @mods & seniors here.

The subjected thread is being derailed/offtopic many times and now most of posts are about Indian procurement. Let this thread be specifically as per subject and @PARIKRAMA and others may post news & updates regarding Indian procurement in specific thread regarding IAF indcutions/plans (new or old) other than Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]. Just my opinion. @PARIKRAMA your words.
Click to expand...

PARIKRAMA said:
It will be good if we convert this thread in Rafale and Make in India fighter aircraft thread or
We make a new sticky thread for Make in India fighter jet thread and stick to only Rafale news here only..

I would request the first one as its clear that all news are aimed at the Make in India part which is bifurcated from original MMRCA only..

Would look forward to suggestions on this..
Click to expand...

It is unnecessary right now. Before March 2017, we will know which jets will be part of MII, new threads can be made accordingly. Assume this thread to be a Rafale + MII thread for now because right now, they are all interrelated. It will automatically change in 6 months or so.

Athen said:
I think you guys should close this thread.. Just waste of bandwidth ... Our DM really sucks.. I expected alot from him.. Now he turned out be wrost in modi cabinet!! All whining...
Click to expand...

Our DM has already finished contracts worth billions. How much are you actually expecting in just 1.5 years after he's taken office? He's already done more than what UPA has done in 10 years.
 
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Kishore said:
French are sucking us high and dry. Just like mirage MLU deal.
Click to expand...
In this case why India is always bargaining? Better not to choose Rafale in 2012 (there was a L2), and why not stopping all the process with the end of MMRCA ?

Think about it, and you will have the answer Bro.
 
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randomradio said:
It is unnecessary right now. Before March 2017, we will know which jets will be part of MII, new threads can be made accordingly. Assume this thread to be a Rafale + MII thread for now because right now, they are all interrelated. It will automatically change in 6 months or so.



Our DM has already finished contracts worth billions. How much are you actually expecting in just 1.5 years after he's taken office? He's already done more than what UPA has done in 10 years.
Click to expand...
sorry..i am a rafale fanboy!!
 
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