Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Abingdonboy]

Prasun Sengupta's take on the whole matter:
Trouble is the ‘desi’ journalists are an inept lot & can’t give any perspective. The RFP is for the selection of an Indian vendor or a consortium of vendors that will be selected for teaming up with Dassault Aviation for licence-building the 90 Rafales after the first 36 have already arrived from France
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3545138702780178046&postID=4871788731999987404&page=1&token=1438606241407

By FAR the most compelling and logical analysis of the current situation and to be fair to him he called this (Dassualt floating RFI/RFPs to Indian vendors to make Rafales in India) a few months ago.

I hope this is not a drama to hand over the tender to reliance

Fingers crossed for L&T or TATA

 

[SQ8]

Prasun Sengupta's take on the whole matter:
Trouble is the ‘desi’ journalists are an inept lot & can’t give any perspective. The RFP is for the selection of an Indian vendor or a consortium of vendors that will be selected for teaming up with Dassault Aviation for licence-building the 90 Rafales after the first 36 have already arrived from France
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3545138702780178046&postID=4871788731999987404&page=1&token=1438606241407

By FAR the most compelling and logical analysis of the current situation and to be fair to him he called this (Dassualt floating RFI/RFPs to Indian vendors to make Rafales in India) a few months ago.


Fingers crossed for L&T or TATA

In other words, its a lockout bid as far as any other aircraft manufacturer is concerned.. but needed to meet government rules and regulations about having more than one bid.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

In other words, its a lockout bid as far as any other aircraft manufacturer is concerned.. but needed to meet government rules and regulations about having more than one bid.

The Govt's 'Rules of Business' are the "voice of god" of Biblical proportions.

 

[Abingdonboy]

In other words, its a lockout bid as far as any other aircraft manufacturer is concerned.. but needed to meet government rules and regulations about having more than one bid.

It is the continuation (and conclusion) of the MMRCA by another name/method/approach but substituting the involvement of HAL for a private consortium.

As such it is obvious there is no intent to involve any other aircraft manufacturers- that day has long since past.

 

[Silent egale]

Rafael is tip of corruption in India

 

[ejaz007]

India Cancels $12B Combat Jet Program

NEW DELHI — India has canceled its $12 billion program to purchase 126 medium multirole combat aircraft.

According to a July 30 press release from the Indian Ministry of Defence, "The RFP issued earlier for procurement of 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) has been withdrawn. In this multi-vendor procurement case, the Rafale aircraft met all the performance characteristics stipulated in the Request for Proposal (RFP) during the evaluation conducted by Indian Air Force."

The release added, "This information was given by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Ahmed Patel in the upper house of parliament on Thursday, 30 July 2015."

Indian officials provided no reason for the cancellation.

Dassault Aviation, prime contractor for the Rafale, was not immediately available for comment.

Separately, the Indian prime minister said in April there would be an off-the-shelf order for 36 Rafales. Dassault hopes the government-to-government negotiations will deliver a contract later this year. If New Delhi does seal the deal, that would be the third export win for the twin-engine fighter jet, following Egypt and Qatar earlier this year.

The first request for information of the MMRCA was floated in December 2005 and the RFP followed in August 2007.

Rafale beat the Eurofighter Typhoon only on the basis of lower cost after they were the only two bidders left in the field. The F-16, F-18, Gripen and MiG-35 were eliminated from competition after flight trials in August 2011.

Under terms of purchase, the first 18 aircraft would have been delivered in fly-away condition while the remaining 108 would have been manufactured under a technology transfer process. Out of the 108 aircraft to be license-produced in India, 74 would have been single-seat and 34 twin-seater aircraft. The delivery was to have begun three years after the contract was signed.

Pierre Tran contributed to this report from Paris.

India Cancels $12B Combat Jet Program

 

[[Bregs]]

ab es thread ko bhi close kar do, struggling to induct even 36

 

[power of steel]

Rafale sucks. No DSI.

 

[halloweene]

"off" information : Dassault emplyees are still working a building chain in India, as if nothing happened.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

"off" information : Dassault emplyees are still working a building chain in India, as if nothing happened.

So they expect a LARGE order soon

@halloweene

France funding combat laser for wing mounted pod for French Dassault Rafale fighter | idrw.org

 

[halloweene]

So they expect a LARGE order soon

@halloweene

France funding combat laser for wing mounted pod for French Dassault Rafale fighter | idrw.org

Hello Stephen.

I'd like to give more precise infos, but i just do not have them. The "combat",laser is meant afaik only to be *Talios pod one (telemetry etc.)

For the moment

 

[surya kiran]

Hello Stephen.

I'd like to give more precise infos, but i just do not have them. The "combat",laser is meant afaik only to be *Talios pod one (telemetry etc.)

For the moment

So can we assume, the chain is being built with Reliance in mind? Or is some other partner in the picture? Or will it be somebody selected via tender? How is this being played out at Dassault?

 

[halloweene]

All i can say (because i do not know anymore, i'd wish to!) is the lady from Dassault in charge of Rafale industrialization in India is still working as if nothing happened.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Rafael is tip of corruption in India

You can't even spell for $hit, man. Neither Eagle nor Rafale. So why do you waste band-width here ?

 

[Hindustani78]

Updated: August 12, 2015 14:27 IST
Rafale deal runs into problems - The Hindu

Rafale jet fighters are seen on the assembly line in the factory of French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation in Merignac near Bordeaux, France.

Rafale deal runs into problems - The Hindu

Both sides are wrangling over the price of the aircraft and a condition that Dassault Aviation invest a big percentage of the multi-billion dollar contract in India.

India's order of 36 French-made Rafale fighter jets has run into trouble with government officials struggling to agree sales terms, sources said, four months after Prime Minister Narendra Modi intervened to break a logjam in previous commercial negotiations.

Two senior Indian defence officials said that both sides were wrangling over the unit price of the aircraft and a condition that planemaker Dassault Aviation invest a big percentage of the value of the multi-billion dollar contract in India. The problems threaten to further delay the modernisation of India's ageing air force.

Military officials have warned of a major capability gap opening up with rivals China and Pakistan without new Western warplanes or if local defence contractors cannot build what the military needs in a timely manner. Mr. Modi and French President Francois Hollande announced the government-to-government deal for the sale of the off-the-shelf Rafale fighters on April 10.

That followed three years of commercial negotiations with Dassault for 126 aircraft that stalled due to disagreements over assembling most of the aircraft in India. Citing India's urgent defence needs, Modi chose to deal directly with Paris for a smaller order, saying officials would work out the details.

On May 16, Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar told local media that negotiations over pricing would be finished in a "month or two". But those talks were bogged down over India's insistence on a lower price for the frontline warplanes than the roughly $200 million each that was discussed with Dassault during the commercial talks, said the two defence officials, who have been briefed on the new negotiations.

Under the previous proposal, Dassault was to assemble 108 of the aircraft in India, a move New Delhi hoped would help boost a high-tech local aerospace industry. There is no production in India in the new arrangement.

"Since there is no technology transfer, the price that was on the table during the commercial talks cannot stand," said one of the officials, who declined to be identified because he was not authorised to speak to the media.

The Indian Defence Ministry said negotiators were in talks to produce a draft agreement, but declined to give details. Mr. Parrikar said last week that New Delhi had told Paris in April it wanted the jets as soon as possible. A Dassault spokesman declined to comment, as did the French defence procurement agency.


Debate over offsets

The two Indian officials said another sticking point was New Delhi's standard requirement that arms makers invest a percentage of the value of any deal above $50 million in India. In this instance, India wants Dassault to invest at least 30 per cent of the contract value in India through activities such as the sourcing of components for future French operations, the setting up of manufacturing facilities in India or by providing high-tech job training, the officials said.

France has said it was ready to meet the offset obligations, but that it would take time to set up a vendor base in India for components for example and that this could push up the deal's cost, the first defence official said.

"Unless this is waived at the highest levels, the Defence Ministry is proceeding on the basis that offset requirements have to be met," the official said. During the commercial negotiations, India had set the offset bar at 50 percent of the contract, the official added.

"This issue has become bigger than the procurement," said Amit Cowshish, a former financial advisor on arms purchases to the Indian Defence Ministry, who has been tracking the negotiations.


Different priorities

Complicating matters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had asked for technical modifications so the latest weapons could be fitted to the jets, the second defence official said.

Initial technical specifications, which were part of the commercial negotiations, were outlined a decade ago when India began the process of seeking new fighters.

A French source familiar with the matter said differing priorities within India were delaying matters, with the air force focused on weaponry and the Defence Ministry on offsets.

"All along the IAF has asked for more armaments than what Dassault has offered while the Indian administration has demanded offsets," the source said. The air force declined to comment, saying the deal was in the government's hands.

The Rafale fighters are meant to fill a gap in an air force deployed for a two-front war against China and Pakistan.

A domestic programme to build a light combat aircraft to form the backbone of the air force is 19 years behind schedule, with the first plane due for final operational clearance in March 2016.

Meanwhile, nearly 260 MiG 21 and MiG 27 Cold War-era fighter jets are due to be phased out in about eight years.

"Even with the entry of the Rafales, the air force has reconciled itself to depleted aircraft strength over the next decade," said retired air vice marshal Kapil Kak.