Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[sancho]

MoD cannot go to L2 as per CVC (Central Vigilance Commission) rules.

Only way for EF consortium is for MMRCA to be scrapped and a govt. to govt deal for 126 Eurofighters. (Watch karan thapar-manohar parrikar interview) I don't see that happening. Impossible for IAF or GoI to justify buying an even more expensive and less technologically advanced mrca (no aesa) with a fraction of L1 availability.

Parrikar didn't said anywhere in the interview that they can't go back to the EF / L2 anymore, infact he even purposly avoided to say anything about the EF twice in the interview, when he was asked if the only alternative is the MKI? He stated that he can't talk to others when they already negotiation with the L1 and that the MKI is always an option, since it's outside of the tender.
Not to mention that we have seen the same before in other tenders like for consultancy partner of N-LCA, where LM was selected as L1, but wasn't able to get US government approval contrary to what they have proposed in their initial bid, as the result, the L2 Airbus got the deal.

 

[Otocal]

Parrikar didn't said anywhere in the interview that they can't go back to the EF / L2 anymore, infact he even purposly avoided to say anything about the EF twice in the interview, when he was asked if the only alternative is the MKI? He stated that he can't talk to others when they already negotiation with the L1 and that the MKI is always an option, since it's outside of the tender.
Not to mention that we have seen the same before in other tenders like for consultancy partner of N-LCA, where LM was selected as L1, but wasn't able to get US government approval contrary to what they have proposed in their initial bid, as the result, the L2 Airbus got the deal.

He said how can you go to L2 when there is L1?

Of course we can do a govt-govt deal

his words not mine. Yes he avoided speaking too much about it in order to not influence the CNC too much

 

[sancho]

He said how can you go to L2 when there is L1?

Exactly, which only means, that as long as the L1 is not rejected he can't go to the L2! And as I said, he was asked twice if the EF is out and didn't said no.

 

[Otocal]

Exactly, which only means, that as long as the L1 is not rejected he can't go to the L2! And as I said, he was asked twice if the EF is out and didn't said no.

Where has he said that EF is not out? twice?

He did not mention that as per CVC rules L2 cannot be selected in any tender. If MoD initiates negotiations with EFT GMBH then MoD (entire) will face the law. Resignation will follow. He wants to do the exact opposite which is why he canceled the minesweeper deal as a goa shipyard was involved and he felt he could somehow have his image tarnished.

 

[sancho]

Where has he said that EF is not out? twice?

Again, he was asked twice if the EF is out and both times avoided the answer by pointing to the above mentioned points. So the fact remains, he never said that the EF is out or that it couldn't be an alternative if the Rafale is out.

 

[Otocal]

Again, he was asked twice if the EF is out and both times avoided the answer by pointing to the above mentioned points. So the fact remains, he never said that the EF is out or that it couldn't be an alternative if the Rafale is out.

He has to follow the law

1. L2 cannot be selected as per CVC rules.
2. To buy Eurofighter he has to do a govt. to govt deal

Anyways why do you like it so much? 10% availability and defects in rear fuselage with all deliveries stopped its hardly meets IAF's needs.

 

[Hindustani78]

Everything is normal: France on Rafale deal | Zee News
Thursday, February 5, 2015 - 00:17


New Delhi: Putting a brave face despite the multi-billion dollar Rafale fighter jet contract flowing into rough weather, France on Wednesday claimed that everything is going "normal".


Interestingly, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius will not be raising the issue of the much delayed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) during his three day-visit beginning tomorrow.

"Clearly the defence procurement is not part of the agenda of this visit," said French sources refusing to comment on the Rafale deal.

Asked again, the sources said the exchanges between French and Indian sides continues. "Everything is at its normal path," they said.

India has made it clear that the ball is in France's court on the signing of the contract.

India is insisting that Dassault Aviation, which manufactures Rafale, cannot renege on the Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses, which it had initially agreed to.

They say France must stick to the price that it had quoted in the RFP and guarantee clause under which Dassault has to stand guarantee for the planes that would be manufactured by state-owned HAL.

 

[halloweene]

I can explain that. There's been an internal war between Fabius and le Drian about who should be responsible for weapons export. Le Drian won it and Fabius was told to stfu. So, at least officially there will be no talks about it.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@halloweene
Are they still so tight lipped about any new breakthrough? Your sources are also fully silent?

 

[Abingdonboy]

PM Modi may fly in Rafale at air show

[...]With the presence of french minister for foreign affairs and international development Laurent Fabius in New Delhi, Dassault has offered Mr Modi a trip during the upcoming Aero India in Bengaluru, which will be inaugurated by the Prime Minister February 18, sources said. “We are looking at the possibility of Mr Modi flying in a fighter jet. There are talks under way and it will be confirmed in a week,” government sources said.[...]

More:
http://www.asianage.com/india/pm-mod...e-air-show-801


Hmmmm this could be interesting. Although there could be a number of reasons Modi may not end up flying in the Rafale (medical, safety concerns etc), if he does then the likelihood of the Rafale being ordered is high IMHO.

I can explain that. There's been an internal war between Fabius and le Drian about who should be responsible for weapons export. Le Drian won it and Fabius was told to stfu. So, at least officially there will be no talks about it.

Implications for the Rafale sale to India, if any?

 

[Hindustani78]

PM Modi may fly in Rafale at air show

[...]With the presence of french minister for foreign affairs and international development Laurent Fabius in New Delhi, Dassault has offered Mr Modi a trip during the upcoming Aero India in Bengaluru, which will be inaugurated by the Prime Minister February 18, sources said. “We are looking at the possibility of Mr Modi flying in a fighter jet. There are talks under way and it will be confirmed in a week,” government sources said.[...]

More:
http://www.asianage.com/india/pm-mod...e-air-show-801


Hmmmm this could be interesting. Although there could be a number of reasons Modi may not end up flying in the Rafale (medical, safety concerns etc), if he does then the likelihood of the Rafale being ordered is high IMHO.


Implications for the Rafale sale to India, if any?

Press information Bureau. Government of India

07-February, 2015 18:59 IST
Reports of Prime Minister to Fly in a French Fighter Jet at Aero India Denied

With reference to a news item in a section of the media that “At Aero India, PM may fly in a Rafale”, it is clarified that there is no plan for the Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi to fly in any fighter jet. The news item is incorrect, misconceived and is not based on facts.

It is further clarified that the conduct of Aero India, a premier aero-show of Asia, has no linkage with any of the acquisition plans pursued by the Ministry of Defence. Aero India- 2015, to be held in Bengaluru from 18 to 22 February, will witness the participation of most of the original defence equipment manufactures from across the globe. As such, the event held biennially, provides defence manufacturers to showcase their products and innovations taking in the field.

 

[DrSomnath999]

FROM FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL FEB 10

Courtesy-Olybrius

 

[sancho]

Make in India theme for upcoming Aero India in Bangalore. Even invite has Modi magic.

Aviator Anil Chopra (@Chopsyturvey)

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 191147
View attachment 191148


Aviator Anil Chopra (@Chopsyturvey)

The EFT consortium and SAAB have been heavily investing in such advertising in India for the past year, seems desperate but I guess they have to, just to say they did...

The L2 bidders can't come back into the race, as stated by the DM himself so it seems rather futile nonetheless.

 

[Turingsage]

its utterly disgusting the way India manages its procurements. A combination of bollywood, trying to get that shit blocking the u-bend out and power politics. Combine this with total inability to think, make clear decisions with competing politicians controlling how much rent is due to them and how they can extract the last cent for themselves and the defence of the nation is the least of their concern.

With useless companies like HAL designed for the purpose of defence ministers to have something they can play with and mangle to their own desires you have a khichri that has a disgusting smell.

HAL to go around saying to dassault, we will make the aircraft, if we make a bodge of it as we have done with practically all projects, you pay and by the way you cant come and check that we are not using chair leg to hammer in the flight controls upside down. its a effing joke.