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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Rafale vs J-20: Ex-IAF chief Dhanoa calls China’s bluff with ‘two simple questions’

Updated: Jul 31, 2020 11:04 IST
By Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times New Delhi

Former Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa has always highlighted how Rafale fighter jets are better stealth fighters and are not inferior to China’s J-20 jets Rafale is 4.5 generation jet.

Former Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa on Friday dismissed claims that the Rafale fighter jets inducted by the Indian Air Force this week had no chance against China’s J-20 stealth fighter.


The claims, made by an ‘expert’ in Chinese Communist Party’s tabloid Global Times, claimed that the Rafale was superior to the IAF’s Sukhoi-30 MKI jets.

“It is only about one-fourth of a generation more advanced and does not yield a significant qualitative change,” Zhang Xuefeng, who was described by the communist party’s propaganda website as a Chinese military expert, said.


The website, quoting unnamed experts claimed, that “Rafale is only a third-plus generation fighter jet, and does not stand much of a chance against a stealth, fourth generation one like the J-20”.

Ex-IAF chief Dhanoa, who has described the 4.5 generation Rafale fighter jets as a “game changer for the IAF, responded to the Chinese claim with “two simple questions”.

“If the J-20, also called the Mighty Dragon, is indeed a fifth generation stealth fighter, then why does it have canards while genuine 5th generation fighters such as the US’ F 22, F 35 and Russian fifth generation Su 57 don’t,” Dhanoa asked.

Canards are fuselage-mounted small, forward wings located forward of the main wing to improve aircraft control and contribute to lift. They are considered to present large angular surfaces that tend to reflect radar signals.


“I don’t think J-20 is stealthy enough to be called a fifth generation fighter as the canard increases the radar signature of the fighter and gives away its position to a long-range BVR missile like the Meteor missile that the Rafale has.

The other question the former IAF chief has for the Chinese is: “Why can’t the J-20 supercruise if it is really a 5th generation fighter as its manufacturer Chengdu Aerospace Corporation calls it.”

Supercruise is the ability of a fighter jet to fly at speeds above M 1.0 - the speed of sound - without the use of afterburners, the additional combustion component used on some jet engines to increase thrust.

“The Rafale has the supercruiseability and its radar signature is comparable to the best of the fighters in the world,” Dhanoa told Hindustan Times.

The retired top air force officer had earlier this week shredded the Chinese propaganda of superior air capability, wondering that if the Chinese equipment was so good, Pakistan would have used its Chinese JF-17 and not the F-16 aircraft to attack Nangi Tekri brigade in Rajouri sector on 27 February 2019. But Pakistan used the Chinese JF-17 to merely give air defence cover to its Mirage 3/5 bombers. Or why China’s “iron brother” uses Swedish early air warning platforms up north and the keep Chinese AWACS in the south.

Incidentally, India is expected to get 12 more Sukhoi 30 MKI and 21 MiG 29s next year from Russia.

According to diplomats based in Moscow, the new Su-MKIs will “look better, shoot better, and fight better”.

The MiG 29 will be used for setting up a new squadron in Jamnagar in Gujarat and will have the same capability as the MiG 29 that India currently has.

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-...vypDHeIrXI_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Probably the most incompetent/ill-advised/corrupt Air Chief IAF ever had.

a. Canards of a certain shape, size, angle, metal, and coating retain the stealth characteristics. Hence it is moronic to suggest that fighters with canards are less stealthy as compared to those without it. Rafale has canards, Mirage 3/5 do not. Yet the Rafale has a smaller RCS compared to them.

b. Supercruise does contribute to stealth but its absence in J-20 does not demote it to 4th generation or even 4.5 generation. J-20's armed with PL-15's won't have to deal with Rafales anyway. (Edit: F-35's also dont have supercruise. I dont see anyone claiming it to be anything less than a 5th generation)

c. Indians are still damned at admitting that JF-17s violated their airspace and targetted installations. Yet the imbecile is claiming that Pakistan used F-16s to attack (oh the F-16 obsession).

This moron didn't have the balls to contest Christian Fair in Chandigarh. When she thrashed the entire agenda of the event by rubbishing IAF claims of Spice bombs destroying balakot targets only from the inside and of course, bison shooting down F-16.

This fat man is not to be taken seriously.
 
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Probably the most incompetent/illadvised/corrupt Air Chief IAF ever had.

a. Canards of a certain shape, size, angle, metal, and coating retain the stealth characteristics. Hence it is moronic to suggest that fighters with canards are less stealthy as compared to those without it. Rafale has canards, Mirage 3/5 do not. Yet the Rafale has a smaller RCS compared to them.

b. Supercruise does contribute to stealth but its absence in J-20 does not demote it to 4th generation or even 4.5 generation. J-20's armed with PL-15's wont have to deal with Rafales anyway.

c. Indians are still damned at admitting that JF-17s violated their airspace and targetted installations. Yet the imbecile is claiming that Pakistan used F-16s to attack (oh the F-16 obsession).

This moron didnt have the balls to contest Christian Fair in Chandigarh. When she thrased the entire agenda of the event by rubbishing IAF claims of Spice bombs destroying balakot targets only from the inside and ofcourse, bison shooting down F-16.

This fat man is not to be taken seriously.
F-35 cannot supercruise either ... according this air marshal's reasoning, the F-35 is not a 5th gen fighter either.
 
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This is just how Indians operates, they are out there to just scam everyone, they think every one is low lQ like them and they can operate on nonsensical big talks.
Rafale is like a vintage plane fit for museums when j20b is concerned.
 
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Another day another Bullshit from Bullshit dhona
 
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Canards of a certain shape, size, angle, metal, and coating retain the stealth characteristics. Hence it is moronic to suggest that fighters with canards are less stealthy as compared to those without it. Rafale has canards, Mirage 3/5 do not. Yet the Rafale has a smaller RCS compared to them.
Wrong again, canards of all characteristics will cause a spike in frontal RCS relative to a configuration without canards
Capture-2020-07-31-12-07-23.png
 
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Wrong again, canards of all characteristics will cause a spike in frontal RCS relative to a configuration without canards
Capture-2020-07-31-12-07-23.png


Read up on X-36. A dedicated low observable aircraft from Boeing that was designed with canards.

The general rule of thumb is, RCS is directly proportional to surface area and canards increase it and so does rudder, wings, ailerons. However, canards designed for stealth will do their job.



McDonnell_Douglas_X-36_planform.jpg
 
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You probably make even the most illiterate of your countrymen as 'smarter'

Read up on X-36. A dedicated low observable aircraft from Boeing that was designed with canards.

The general rule of thumb is, RCS is directly proportional to surface area and canards increase it and so does rudder, wings, ailerons. However, canards designed for stealth will do their job. Doesnt matter how much your crooked and shameless ex chief yapps about it.



View attachment 657295
It never progressed beyond prototype stage because of poor design and capability .
 
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F-35 cannot supercruise either ... according this air marshal's reasoning, the F-35 is not a 5th gen fighter either.
No really.
The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners. But in order to cruise at Mach 1.2 without afterburner, it would need to reach Mach 1.3 to Mach 1.4 using it's afterburner after which pilot can disengage the afterburner and cruise for the next 150 miles at speeds right above Mach 1.

"Mach 1.2 is a good speed for you, according to the pilots," chief designer O’Bryan said.
 
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Yes, it would be a wonderful vision. One Rafale parked on the ground in the extreme left corner, one in the extreme right corner - All right, little ones, off you go, home to your Mums.

Dumb Americans. They could have taken over North Vietnam so many times over, given the number of superior planes they had.

Aircraft cannot defeat trained gorillas. Scary beings.
 
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India should propose a duel to China to settle this matter.

2 x Rafale vs. 2 x J-20

:sarcastic:
That is a CAPITAL IDEA SIR!!:enjoy:
Now how do we go about setting it up?,because I imagine that the indians are literally champing at the bit to show the entire world not only how much better their new french planes are compared to their old russian sukhois,but how much better they are compared to chinas fifth gen aircraft as well!!.
This is indias moment to shine,so I`m sure they wont turn down a challenge.:haha:
tenor.gif
 
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Whatever the problems are, they are being FIXED. These are very complex machines.

Every aircraft in the world has "problems." Problems are also variable - some units work better than others. This is why maintenance is necessary and solutions are sought to fix problems.

You will learn more from pilot testimonials.

There is no such thing as picture-perfection.
 
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Whatever the problems are, they are being FIXED. These are very complex machines.

Every aircraft in the world has "problems." Problems are also variable - some units work better than others. This is why maintenance is necessary and solutions are sought to fix problems.

You will learn more from pilot testimonials.

There is no such thing as picture-perfection.
Maybe.
But not every problem has a solution.
F-35 has design defect, which can NOT be fixed I think. F-35 lift coefficient is too bad. Basically you need a slim jet or a over powerful engine to be supersonic cruise. F-35 has neither of them compared with the overweight body.
 
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