Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[MirageBlue]

Yes, I know, you will continue, and continue and continue....

We'll be better off than you for sure. Project AZM it seems.

 

[Yasser76]

We'll be better off than you for sure. Project AZM it seems.

My friend, you realise that in a few years, as LCA will START to roll out, JF-17 Production will be FINISHING and AZM will be starting. The delays have led India to be a generation behind. You can comprehend this surely?

 

[MirageBlue]

My friend, you realise that in a few years, as LCA will START to roll out, JF-17 Production will be FINISHING and AZM will be starting. The delays have led India to be a generation behind. You can comprehend this surely?

Well, what does it matter that JF-17 production will end by say 2027 or whenever and Tejas Mk1A production would be going on? PAC Kamra will be either sitting idle or waiting for Shenyang to teach it how to build the FC-31.

It's not as if the PAF is going to retire the JF-17 and induct all FC-31s is it? Lol.. the JF-17's aren't going anywhere. They'll still be the frontline combat fighter for the PAF for the next 30 years. Which means the Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2 and TEDBF will all be more than relevant. How many FC-31s (or to humor you, AZM) will PAF be able to afford anyway? 60? 100?

People like you predicted the LCA program would fail and be shelved. It now has 126 orders and 2 new combat fighter programs spun off as well with the IAF backing the Tejas Mk2 to get anywhere between 120-170 orders.

I am constantly amazed how Pakistanis cannot see the fact that with next to zero facilities for fighter aircraft design, there is no real Project AZM within Pakistan. There's not even a sketch of what AZM is. Clearly, the PAF is just waiting on Shenyang to finish work on the FC-31 prototypes, before calling it another JV thanks to some funding that Pakistan will provide. You're happy with the Chinese doing ALL the engineering and technology development work while you assemble and count that as a massive win. And it won't bring any ground breaking change.

India's goals are different, not just taking someone else's design and assembling it together and calling it a JV. It's not just to have a fighter in service, but also to stand up a world class aerospace industry. Meanwhile, Pakistan will always look at the Chinese cupboard and see what it can take off the shelf and adapt for it's needs. When we need more Rafales or other MRFA's, they'll be imported. But work will continue within India on mission mode.

In this decade for India, 4 combat aircraft programs will see prototypes and 2 will even enter production, leading to thousands of jobs at hundreds of MSMEs and OEMs both public and private. As much as you and so many others here on this forum hope for it to fail, India has turned a corner.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[The Eagle]

topic please...


Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

 

[Yasser76]

People like you predicted the LCA program would fail and be shelved. It now has 126 orders and 2 new combat fighter programs spun off as well.

I am constantly amazed how Pakistanis cannot see the fact that with next to zero facilities for fighter aircraft design, there is no real Project AZM within Pakistan. There's not even a sketch of what AZM is. Clearly, the PAF is just waiting on Shenyang to finish work on the FC-31 prototypes, before calling it another JV thanks to some funding that Pakistan will provide. You're happy with the Chinese doing ALL the engineering and technology development work while you assemble and count that as a massive win. And it won't bring any ground breaking change.

India's goals are different, not just taking someone else's design and assembling it together and calling it a JV. It's not just to have a fighter in service, but also to stand up a world class aerospace industry. Meanwhile, Pakistan will always look at the Chinese cupboard and see what it can take off the shelf and adapt for it's needs. When we need more Rafales or other MRFA's, they'll be imported. But work will continue within India on mission mode.

In this decade for India, 4 combat aircraft programs will see prototypes and 2 will even enter production, leading to thousands of jobs at hundreds of MSMEs and OEMs both public and private. As much as you and so many others here on this forum hope for it to fail, India has turned a corner.

The more you lose the argument the more your posts lose touch withh reality.

Firstly there is not 126 orders for LCA. Contract has not been signed yet for MK1A, so you need to calm down.

Yes, you are engaged in "developing" 4 new fighters. US and Europe combined are not doing this and your defence budget is 5% of their combined defence budgets. No one outside of HAL Marketing department (and probably not even most of them) believes all 4 will come to frutition.

Yes, Pak has much help from China in helping us build aircraft in house and developing our own industry. India has no such partner.

 

[ziaulislam]

Well, what does it matter that JF-17 production will end by say 2027 or whenever and Tejas Mk1A production would be going on? PAC Kamra will be either sitting idle or waiting for Shenyang to teach it how to build the FC-31.

It's not as if the PAF is going to retire the JF-17 and induct all FC-31s is it? Lol.. the JF-17's aren't going anywhere. They'll still be the frontline combat fighter for the PAF for the next 30 years. Which means the Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2 and TEDBF will all be more than relevant. How many FC-31s (or to humor you, AZM) will PAF be able to afford anyway? 60? 100?

People like you predicted the LCA program would fail and be shelved. It now has 126 orders and 2 new combat fighter programs spun off as well with the IAF backing the Tejas Mk2 to get anywhere between 120-170 orders.

I am constantly amazed how Pakistanis cannot see the fact that with next to zero facilities for fighter aircraft design, there is no real Project AZM within Pakistan. There's not even a sketch of what AZM is. Clearly, the PAF is just waiting on Shenyang to finish work on the FC-31 prototypes, before calling it another JV thanks to some funding that Pakistan will provide. You're happy with the Chinese doing ALL the engineering and technology development work while you assemble and count that as a massive win. And it won't bring any ground breaking change.

India's goals are different, not just taking someone else's design and assembling it together and calling it a JV. It's not just to have a fighter in service, but also to stand up a world class aerospace industry. Meanwhile, Pakistan will always look at the Chinese cupboard and see what it can take off the shelf and adapt for it's needs. When we need more Rafales or other MRFA's, they'll be imported. But work will continue within India on mission mode.

In this decade for India, 4 combat aircraft programs will see prototypes and 2 will even enter production, leading to thousands of jobs at hundreds of MSMEs and OEMs both public and private. As much as you and so many others here on this forum hope for it to fail, India has turned a corner.

Even if project azm is clone so what?
We arent in competition to produce unique fighter but practical fighter
This isnt a school science project competition

With respect to dependence..HAL was delayed why? Engine? So what type of independence you bought?

India would have learned more and ensured its security had it simply license produced gripen in 90, 2000s or 2010s

 

[Yasser76]

Even if project azm is clone so what?
We arent in competition to produce unique fighter but practical fighter
This isnt a school science project competition

With respect to dependence..HAL was delayed why? Engine? So what type of independence you bought?

India would have learned more and ensured its security had it simply license produced gripen in 90, 2000s or 2010s

Shocking, especially when you compare it with the Brazil Gripen E deal.

$4.7 Billion
36 planes
full weapons and training package
Brazilian production and full ToT
$3 Billion swedish investment in Brazilian industry
High chance of more orders after first 36 completed
Signed in 2015, first plane delivered in 2020.

 

[ziaulislam]

Shocking, especially when you compare it with the Brazil Gripen E deal.

$4.7 Billion
36 planes
full weapons and training package
Brazilian production and full ToT
$3 Billion swedish investment in Brazilian industry
High chance of more orders after first 36 completed
Signed in 2015, first plane delivered in 2020.

Cheaper then HAL tejas
More learning experience

But i think we should be happy
Atlesst they won the science project

In 2012 i said on this forum scrap MRCA and go fot gripen

Had they signed a 9b$ gripen NG instead of rafale deal PAF would have been sweating now

9+8B of money diverted to gripen would have meant 200+ gripens
That would have been a somewhat resistance to PLAAF massive 1500(700+j10(abc),700 flankers) fourth gn fleet

 

[MirageBlue]

The more you lose the argument the more your posts lose touch withh reality.

Troll can’t handle the truth I suppose

Firstly there is not 126 orders for LCA. Contract has not been signed yet for MK1A, so you need to calm down.

It’s a done deal as far as HAL and IAF are concerned. The MoD confirmed that it will sign the contract at Aero India.
Their statements matter not those of some internet troll.

Yes, you are engaged in "developing" 4 new fighters. US and Europe combined are not doing this and your defence budget is 5% of their combined defence budgets. No one outside of HAL Marketing department (and probably not even most of them) believes all 4 will come to frutition.

Lol. First it was that there weren’t 4 programs. Now with interviews with the Project Directors coming out and actual progress being described in interviews, the troll wants to believe that no one believes they’ll come to fruition. Despite the IAF saying it is hedging it’s future bets on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. And IN having released operational requirements document to ADA. The customers are behind the programs and there is political will to achieve maximum self reliance. They will be completed, as horrible as that thought may be to many folks here who cannot comprehend what’ll happen beyond Block 3 on their side.

Yes, Pak has much help from China in helping us build aircraft in house and developing our own industry. India has no such partner.

India doesn’t need a daddy. Lol.

all they’re teaching you is how to assemble fighters. Big deal.

 

[Yasser76]

Troll can’t handle the truth I suppose


It’s a done deal as far as HAL and IAF are concerned. The MoD confirmed that it will sign the contract at Aero India.
Their statements matter not those of some internet troll.

Lol. First it was that there weren’t 4 programs. Now with interviews with the Project Directors coming out and actual progress being described in interviews, the troll wants to believe that no one believes they’ll come to fruition. Despite the IAF saying it is hedging it’s future bets on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. And IN having released operational requirements document to ADA. The customers are behind the programs and there is political will to achieve maximum self reliance. They will be completed, as horrible as that thought may be to many folks here who cannot comprehend what’ll happen beyond Block 3 on their side.


India doesn’t need a daddy. Lol.

all they’re teaching you is how to assemble fighters. Big deal.

Is there a signed contract for MK1A? It's a yes or know answer?

So MK1A, LCA MK 2, AMACA, and Naval programme do not add up to 4 (please check my maths for me), again, simple yes or no answer no need to go into a complicated Indian habit of writing 2 paragraphs. Just yes or no.

Thanks

 

[MirageBlue]

Is there a signed contract for MK1A? It's a yes or know answer?

So MK1A, LCA MK 2, AMACA, and Naval programme do not add up to 4 (please check my maths for me), again, simple yes or no answer no need to go into a complicated Indian habit of writing 2 paragraphs. Just yes or no.

Thanks

Man the troll is so predictable!

This troll will ask for the attested contract document to be shown to him in a week when it's signed officially by the Defence Minister at Aero India..lol

The 13th edition of Aero India, the defence ministry’s biannual air show, will see heightened government pitch for indigenous aircraft designs. Defence Minister Rajnath Singh will formally sign India’s largest defence orders for Indian industry, a Rs 48,000 crore contract for 83 LCA Tejas Mark 1 aircraft on February 3. The contract--73 combat jets in the Mark 1A configuration and 10 Mark 1 trainers--will be signed on the inaugural day of the three-day Aero India 2021 air show beginning in Bengaluru on February 3.

If one was ask the troll if there are signed contracts for the JF-17 Block 3, for the RD-93 engines, for the PL-15, all the stuff that they regularly boast about on the other threads, then I'm sure he'll claim "don't bring the JF-17 into this".

Go split hairs elsewhere troll. In less than a week's time your post won't even matter.


And in more news related to the Rafale for the IAF, 3 more Rafales landed in India yesterday. Fleet size is now 11, with No.17 'Golden Arrows' squadron at Ambala AFS.

UAE AF's A-330 MRTT provided refueling on multiple occasions to the 3 IAF Rafales.

3rd batch of Rafale fighter jets land in India

 

[Yasser76]

Man the troll is so predictable!

This troll will ask for the attested contract document to be shown to him in a week when it's signed officially by the Defence Minister at Aero India..lol



If one was ask the troll if there are signed contracts for the JF-17 Block 3, for the RD-93 engines, for the PL-15, all the stuff that they regularly boast about on the other threads, then I'm sure he'll claim "don't bring the JF-17 into this".

Go split hairs elsewhere troll. In less than a week's time your post won't even matter.


And in more news related to the Rafale for the IAF, 3 more Rafales landed in India yesterday. Fleet size is now 11, with No.17 'Golden Arrows' squadron at Ambala AFS.

UAE AF's A-330 MRTT provided refueling on multiple occasions to the 3 IAF Rafales.

3rd batch of Rafale fighter jets land in India

So you could simply not answer two yes/no questions truthfully as requested for fear your lies would be exposed?

I will ask again, maybe your English is not that good.

Signed order for MK1A? Yes or no?
4 new designs promised (MK1A, MK2, AMACA, Navy Fighter). Yes or no?

 

[MirageBlue]

So you could simply not answer two yes/no questions truthfully as requested for fear your lies would be exposed?

I will ask again, maybe your English is not that good.

Signed order for MK1A? Yes or no?
4 new designs promised (MK1A, MK2, AMACA, Navy Fighter). Yes or no?

Lol..

Troll got stuck..keep repeating this for the next 5 days. And you'll have your answer on Feb 3.

As for the 4 new designs, who said no to that? It was you who kept saying that all this was just HAL marketing wasn't it? Or does the troll's memory fail him?

You might want to add a potential 5th design, the ORCA derivative of the TEDBF to the mix as well, which HAL is pitching to the IAF. Will make your trolling even more interesting.

 

[Yasser76]

Lol..

Troll got stuck..keep repeating this for the next 5 days. And you'll have your answer on Feb 3.

As for the 4 new designs, who said no to that? It was you who kept saying that all this was just HAL marketing wasn't it? Or does the troll's memory fail him?

You might want to add a potential 5th design, the ORCA derivative of the TEDBF to the mix as well, which HAL is pitching to the IAF. Will make your trolling even more interesting.

OK, so guess no real answers from you. I will just state the facts again, correct me if I am wrong

1) No contract signature for LCA MK1A
4) 4 New jet designs being promised (more then US/EU/Russia combined)

No you can go.