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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Does it have a A to A missile with 1900 km range?
Yes US Claiming It
Sensors, Data And Decisions

[QUOTE="The DAS is a remarkably sensitive and discriminating set of six sensors that gives the pilot data not just from in front of his aircraft, but directly below, above and to the sides — in military parlance he’s got 360 degree situational awareness. How sensitive is the system? I’ve been told by two sources that the DAS spotted a missile launch from 1,200 miles away during a Red Flag exercise in Alaska. But DAS, just as with the older Defense Support Satellites used to search the world for missile launches, may not know exactly what it’s looking at right away.[/QUOTE]

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/06/a-gods-eye-view-of-the-battlefield-gen-hostage-on-the-f-35/4/
 
The F-35's DAS is so sensitive, it reportedly detected the launch of an air-to-air missile in a training exercise from 1200 mi (1,900 km) away, which in combat would give away the location of an enemy aircraft even if it had a very low RCS


That's wrong. It detected a ballistic missile from that range. You can't detect an air to air missile from that range because 1900Km is beyond the F-35's max horizon, the earth is a sphere, so the missile will be hidden by earth's curvature.

There's nothing special about tracking ballistic missiles from that distance, especially when the background radiation is well below freezing.


In the right conditions, we can even see them.
2E45A14400000578-3310577-image-a-32_1447089321500.jpg


This video explains how people observed a BM test in the Pacific as far as Arizona. That's more than 1000Km from the test site.

Do you Know how Power full RWR of F-35 Is

Iam ready Listen Its Performance in rafale what's its Range

Rafale's Spectra suite is far superior, the Americans/British are yet to develop something similar.

In fact from what DARPA's queen bee says, the Americans are yet to develop algorithms that the Spectra has been using over the last 15 years.
 
That's wrong. It detected a ballistic missile from that range. You can't detect an air to air missile from that range because 1900Km is beyond the F-35's max horizon, the earth is a sphere, so the missile will be hidden by earth's curvature.

There's nothing special about tracking ballistic missiles from that distance, especially when the background radiation is well below freezing.
Subtract RCS and you will get the figures Close thousand KM For fighter aircraft

While being flown on Northrop Grumman's BAC 1-11 test aircraft, the DAS detected and located tank fire from an operationally significant distance. In addition to artillery, the system is able to simultaneously detect and pinpoint the location of rockets and anti-aircraft artillery fired in a wide area. Although hostile fire detection is not an F-35 requirement for the DAS, the system design makes it ideal for this mission. This inherent capability enables DAS to harvest, process and deliver key battlespace information to ground forces and other aircraft autonomously, without the need for cueing or increasing pilot workload

http://www.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/anaaq37f35/pages/default.aspx

This Technology is Patent by US so you will not find Its similar in market
https://www.google.com/patents/US5317394
 
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Subtract RCS and you will get the figures Close thousand KM For fighter aircraft

While being flown on Northrop Grumman's BAC 1-11 test aircraft, the DAS detected and located tank fire from an operationally significant distance. In addition to artillery, the system is able to simultaneously detect and pinpoint the location of rockets and anti-aircraft artillery fired in a wide area. Although hostile fire detection is not an F-35 requirement for the DAS, the system design makes it ideal for this mission. This inherent capability enables DAS to harvest, process and deliver key battlespace information to ground forces and other aircraft autonomously, without the need for cueing or increasing pilot workload

http://www.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/anaaq37f35/pages/default.aspx

Nah, man. DAS doesn't detect radio frequency, it detects heat. BMs are hot, fighters planes are not even remotely close as hot. RCS does nothing.

You are posting what IR detection systems normally do.
 
Nah, man. DAS doesn't detect radio frequency, it detects heat. BMs are hot, fighters planes are not even remotely close as hot. RCS does nothing.

You are posting what IR detection systems normally do.
DAS Multi Sensor Unit it has six sensors Including Passive IRST It can Detect even smaller IR emissions

In fact, during a test flown on Northrop Grumman’s BAC 1-11 test aircraft, the F-35’s DAS detected and located tanks that were firing live rounds during a military exercise. Hostile fire detection makes the aircraft capable to simultaneously detect and pinpoint anti-aircraft artillery and rocket fired in a wide area: the location from where the hostile fire originates can be gathered and then shared with ground forces,At very long Ranges



Designated the AN/AAQ-37 and comprising six electro-optical sensors, the full EO DAS will enhance the F-35's survivability and operational effectiveness by warning the pilot of incoming aircraft and missile threats, providing day/night vision and supporting the navigation function of the F-35 Lightning II's forward-looking infrared sensor.


The DAS provides:


  • Missile detection and tracking
  • Launch point detection
  • Situational awareness IRST & cueing
  • Weapons support
  • Day/night navigation
At every long ranges

Source
http://www.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/anaaq37f35/pages/default.aspx

ighters planes are not even remotely close as hot. RCS does nothing.
DAS Made to detect Missiles and Aircraft at very long ranges that's why IRST sensors are Included
 
Rafale deal paves way for India-France strategic partnership for next 40 years: French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

India-France partnership in defence is no going to be limited to Rafale alone in future, France is expected to bag many more defence deals which Russia might loose and US might not get all of them for sanctions risk associated with them .
 
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I know that:-). just saying f 35 is superior to f 22 in most cases except stealth even that is questionable(At optimal frequencies, the F-35 compares favorably to the F-22 in stealth, according to General Mike hostage, Commander of the Air combat command) .
Don't go by physical parameters , i'm talking about situational awareness-> sensor fusion,electronic warfare( The CATbird avionics testbed aircraft has proved capable of detecting and jamming radars including the F-22's AN/APG 77
Our ballistics missiles have range of 5k km to 11.5km
And we have our own refuel jets, with connections getting better with gulf countries that too count Iran as an enemy, I guess gettin to iran wouldn't be such of a problem
 
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Posted at: Sep 25, 2016, 12:57 AM; last updated: Sep 25, 2016, 2:48 PM (IST)
Rafale to widen arch of operations
MoD working on multiple options, next 5-6 yrs crucial for Air Force to induct technology

2016_9$largeimg25_Sunday_2016_005050403.jpg

The first of the Rafales will start coming in by September 2019 and the full fleet shall be operational by April 2022. File photo

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, September 24

Equipped with the latest missiles which widen the arch of offensive operations, the Rafale fighter will be a potential game-changer for India’s airborne capability on several fronts.
India has signed a contract with France to buy 36 such jets at a cost of Rs 58,828 crore, a huge sum but modern technology does not come cheap.

Chiefly the Rafale will provide: dependability of having the very latest technology-backed air-strike platform; ability to hit enemy targets which are further away due to its flight radius of some 1,000 km; be available for five sorties per day instead of three of the Sukhoi 30 MKI; a new set of onboard radars to help pilots navigate and also strike; a new set of missiles that hit targets further away; and infusion of new technology in the Indian Air Force that is presently operating at its lowest level of fighter jets in the past decade.

The Rafale will bridge the shortfall of the fast-dwindling fighter squadrons. India needs 45 fighter squadrons to counter a combined threat from Pakistan and China. Currently, it has only 33, where each squadron has 18-20 jets. Of these, the vintage MiG-21 and MiG-27 form 11 squadrons. The Sukhoi 30-MKI populates 10 squadrons, the 1970s design British Jaguar six, followed by French Mirage 2000 and Soviet Union’s MiG-29 in two and three squadrons, respectively. The last three are being upgraded with better missiles and avionics.

Rafale will be in some ways be superior to what the Chinese presently have in their arsenal, but Beijing is producing its own platforms and weapons and with the next generation J-20 fighter jet getting established, India will need to carry forward its plans rapidly and catch up with Beijing over the next five-six years by widening its ‘make in India’ footprint.

The first of the Rafales will start coming in by September 2019 and the full fleet shall be operational by April 2022. In the intervening period, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) led by Manohar Parrikar, needs to focus on a multi-pronged approach to meet future needs. The Rafale deal was negotiated for 18 months – ‘lightning fast’ going by MoD’s record.

As the good news filters in, the MoD is already working on multiple options – at least four of which are known – to bridge the technology gap of the IAF and add newer planes.

  1. The first is to quickly induct the 106 Tejas “Mark-1A”. The MoD has set a 2018 deadline for the first aircraft to be ready with a target to complete its production by 2022-23.
  2. The second is to have an additional assembly line of Indian-made fighter jets. This could be a joint venture with a US or European company setting up a plant in collaboration with an Indian partner.
  3. The third is completion of the production schedule of 272 of the Sukhoi 30-MKI, expected by 2020.
  4. The fourth is to ink an agreement with Russia to co-develop and produce a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with stealth features and the works.
The Sukhois were ordered in phases since 1997, the IAF wants 272 of these in its fleet by 2020. The agreement for the FGFA is expected to be inked when Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin meet next month.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/rafale-to-widen-arch-of-operations/300365.html
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Comments

I have said this before
upload_2016-9-26_0-55-42.png

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-351#post-8704512

If the article above is correct, then point 2
The second is to have an additional assembly line of Indian-made fighter jets. This could be a joint venture with a US or European company setting up a plant in collaboration with an Indian partner
Seems to suggest a straight shootout situation as
  • F18SH vs Rafale ( USA vs European)
  • F16 vs Rafale vs Gripen (USA vs European)
Interesting to note, first option of F18 is not accepted by IAF as of now
Second option is basically a LWF Single engine vs twin Engine MWF/DPSA

In both sense logic, rationality and the MII investments couple with Eric Trappier words indicate the choice is Rafale.

Yet i would love to see rationale of using either other american options (F16/F18) or Gripen instead of Rafale. This brings us to the important second part of the equation.
In my observation for Rafale M and interaction with vstol, we discussed the following


upload_2016-9-26_1-4-26.png


upload_2016-9-26_1-5-5.png


upload_2016-9-26_1-5-41.png

IF what you read above is basically the scope of IN order and its basically much sooner in the horizon owing to inadequate fleet for the carriers.

This opens up the scope of debate further, bcz these orders may be again from Merignac only unless the first MII order is Rafale M (highly unlikely). We know surely the F16/F18/Gripen E are not qualified for STOBAR config ACC.

On top, if supposing say 3 squadrons of 16 aircraft and 6 twin seater are ordered thats 54 odd Rafale Ms. Bascially 90 aircrafts from Merignac Line. Unless of course we order 45 Mig29Ks between now and 2017.

This makes me wonder, why is mainstream media still believing that a US jet or may be another European jet actually is running for a MII line, the likes of LM, Boeing and Saab....

Again all as per the report which does not mention a second LWF which i believe is a possibility if LCA Mk2 is shelved or delayed or the foreign aircraft /LSA is rechristened as LCA Mk2 with some basic changes.


@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @Taygibay @R!CK @Armani @GuardianRED @surya kiran @Ankit Kumar 002 @Nilgiri @hellfire @Spectre @randomradio @litefire @dadeechi @[Bregs] @BON PLAN @CNL-PN-AA @Skull and Bones @MilSpec @SpArK

By any chance Am I missing something here?
 
Any deal with US in MII specifically for a fighter aircraft is going to be sure shot pain in future so better to concentrate onh Rafale MII(both for IN and IAF), signing of FGFA deal at earliest, Super sukhois upgrades and fattier n timely induction of tejas at least now. Gripen wont bring in any thing strategic to us
 
The second is to have an additional assembly line of Indian-made fighter jets. This could be a joint venture with a US or European company setting up a plant in collaboration with an Indian partner

The offer for something other than Rafale for these would be terribly difficult to justify fiscally, given all the new one time costs yet again for another platform.

Anyway keeping options open only helps India in the long run for the next negotiation whenever it commences (probably after 2019 election).

Enough breathing room has been acquired in the mean time with this interim method.
 

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