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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

I assume the Derby-ER would be compatible with the DRDO's AESA radars?
Normally israeli will give you specifications of interface of the missile and DRDO will make the AESA compatible with it. Same for Russian missile and French one.
The problem is only when you cannot modify the software of the radar. And the real interface is not with the Radar, but with the weapon system if you want to be able to fire on whatever track you have and not only on radar ones.
 
MBDA_Meteor_Missile.jpg


by Vishnu Som
IAF's Rafales will come equipped with Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

New Delhi: As India and France get set to sign a Euro 7.87 billion contact for 36 French Rafale fighters, details are emerging on a previously undisclosed part of the deal, which will see India acquiring the Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

Sources tracking the final negotiations have confirmed to NDTV that the IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor designed to knock out enemy aircraft and cruise missiles significantly more than 100 km away.

The acquisition of this weapon is likely to be game changer in South Asia. Neither Pakistan nor China, India's traditional military adversaries, possess a weapon of the same class.

The only other air-to-air missile as capable as the Meteor is the AIM-120D, the latest variant of the US Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile which is also designed to hit targets more than 100 km away.
Analysts, however, point out that the Meteor is likely to be significantly more capable because of its ramjet engine.

According to War is Boring, a leading international website that explores high technology weapons systems, "A conventional solid-fuel booster accelerates the Meteor after launch, like most air-to-air missiles. But while roaring through the air, the missile opens up a chute, allowing air to rush into the engine, which heats up the oxygen and propels the supersonic missile to Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound)."

Rafale_Firing_Meteor_Missile.jpg

A Rafale fighter firing a Meteor Missile

Engineers from the European firm MBDA, which builds the missile, have reportedly claimed that the Meteor has a "no escape zone" three times larger than that of the AIM 120D AMRAAM missile.

According to War is Boring, "the no-escape zone is an aerial combat term for a cone-shaped area determined by the missile's capabilities -- from where a targeted aircraft cannot escape solely using its own maneuverability."

To survive the no escape zone, a fighter jet has to be able to jam the seeker of the incoming missile or deceive it by firing chaff, strips of metal foil released in the air to obstruct radar detection.

At the moment, India and France are finalizing details of the Inter-governmental agreement on India's acquisition of the Rafale. A French team, currently in Delhi, is reviewing the contract which runs into several thousand pages.

Once this document is firmed up, the file goes back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, which, at this stage, is likely to be a formality.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would be acquiring 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in an off-the-shelf purchase when he visited France in April last year. Deliveries of the fighter are likely to begin in 2019. Sharp differences between Indian and French price negotiators meant that neither side was able to achieve a breakthrough till now.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with...t-puts-india-ahead-of-china-exclusive-1458726
 
Rafale + Meteor is India's reply to JF-17 + SD-10.

meteor-Mere.jpg



India also has similar missile project but Meteor is most advanced AAM in service now.

aUlHatH.png


J1sBt5r.png
India doesn't need the Rafale to counter anything the PAF has. The 300+ MKIs, 100 upgraded MiG-29/Mirage 2000 and 200 odd LCA are more than enough.

The Rafale will be a game changer where China is concerned , it's ability to strike deep into hostile territory and all round performance will release The IAF's other high performance assets to prosecute other targets.
 
India Coaxes France Into Selling its Air-to-Air Missile Equipped Rafale

Some procedural work could take little more time for signing of 36 Rafale deal between India and France

New Delhi (Sputnik) — India and France are still working on preparing a fresh Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for 36 Rafale combat aircraft. Sources told Sputnik that following negotiations, officials from both countries are finalizing documents which will be placed before Cabinet Committee of Security, India’s topmost approving authority, for final approval. © FLICKR/ ALEXANDER BABASHOV India's Deal for 36 Dassault Rafale Stealth Fighter Jets Reaches Final Phase However, it is not clear that whether the IGA requires fresh approval from the Law Ministry or not. The Ministry of Law & Justice had made certain observations regarding the arbitration and liability clause in case of breach of contract. Sources told Sputnik that the Rafale would be equipped with Meteor beyond-visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM). Meteor is seen as the most lethal radar guided air-to-air missile in operational service in the world. It is claimed that its dual rocket and ramjet propulsion system continues to provide power and acceleration even at its maximum range. During his visit to France in April last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that India would purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract. Soon after the announcement, the defense ministry scrapped a separate process that to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defense giant Dassault Aviati

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160915/1045325989/india-rafale-missile.html
 

IAF's Rafales will come equipped with Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

New Delhi: As India and France get set to sign a Euro 7.87 billion contact for 36 French Rafale fighters, details are emerging on a previously undisclosed part of the deal, which will see India acquiring the Meteor, arguably the world's most advanced air-to-air missile.

Sources tracking the final negotiations have confirmed to NDTV that the IAF's Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor designed to knock out enemy aircraft and cruise missiles significantly more than 100 km away.


The acquisition of this weapon is likely to be game changer in South Asia. Neither Pakistan nor China, India's traditional military adversaries, possess a weapon of the same class.

The only other air-to-air missile as capable as the Meteor is the AIM-120D, the latest variant of the US Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile which is also designed to hit targets more than 100 km away.

Analysts, however, point out that the Meteor is likely to be significantly more capable because of its ramjet engine.

According to War is Boring, a leading international website that explores high technology weapons systems, "A conventional solid-fuel booster accelerates the Meteor after launch, like most air-to-air missiles. But while roaring through the air, the missile opens up a chute, allowing air to rush into the engine, which heats up the oxygen and propels the supersonic missile to Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound)."

Engineers from the European firm MBDA, which builds the missile, have reportedly claimed that the Meteor has a "no escape zone" three times larger than that of the AIM 120D AMRAAM missile.

According to War is Boring, "the no-escape zone is an aerial combat term for a cone-shaped area determined by the missile's capabilities -- from where a targeted aircraft cannot escape solely using its own maneuverability."

To survive the no escape zone, a fighter jet has to be able to jam the seeker of the incoming missile or deceive it by firing chaff, strips of metal foil released in the air to obstruct radar detection.

At the moment, India and France are finalizing details of the Inter-governmental agreement on India's acquisition of the Rafale. A French team, currently in Delhi, is reviewing the contract which runs into several thousand pages.

Once this document is firmed up, the file goes back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, which, at this stage, is likely to be a formality.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would be acquiring 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in an off-the-shelf purchase when he visited France in April last year. Deliveries of the fighter are likely to begin in 2019. Sharp differences between Indian and French price negotiators meant that neither side was able to achieve a breakthrough till now.
 
Source based news with rough numbers of the package

Part 1

  • Basic Aircraft package ~ Euro 2.7 Bn
  • Financial package comprising of Cost escalation + milestone payments + other conditions ~Euro 0.5Bn
  • Weapon package cost~ Euro 0.70 Bn includes meteors, scalp and mica +others
  • Engineering Support package + Basic infrastructure support package for operations ~Euro 1.8 Bn
  • Customization package including high altitude performance package, hot weather performance package, Indian weapons, required thrust, India specific Training, Simulators for local language, etc etc ~Euro 1.8Bn
  • Logistics support package for high performance availability and spares ~ Euro 0.35 Bn
Part 2
  • It is expected some of these sub portions may be combined in case media is briefed about the package details or realigned to showcase some sub sections under different heads.
  • There is a guideline to play down availability rate and in all probability will be revealed at 75% but sperate logistics support for high performance is a way to ensure its 90%
  • The high-altitude performance package involves specific engine setup conditions as well as payload conditions defined under
    • SEAD, DEAD, low altitude missions
    • Weapon package and payload being very specific
    • Intensive AD environment and other warfare aspects
    • Defined under TAR (Tibet Autonomous Region) and Leh/Ladakh, J&K, and Gilgit, P-OK region
  • The hot weather conditions includes
    • extreme temperature performance under operations in Desert environment
    • continuous sand particles based issues
    • for standard SEAD, DEAD, low altitude ingress
    • Strict guidelines to ensure no system or engine failure or performance issues.
  • There is a serious consideration for corrosion effect owing to extreme weather seen across the year and country bases.and emphasis is to ensure none of this compromises the mission goals and compromises package delivery aspects.

Hope this helps. This is the best i could muster.

@Abingdonboy @Vergennes @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @anant_s @MilSpec @SpArK @nair @AUSTERLITZ @Ankit Kumar 002 @hellfire @Armani @randomradio @GuardianRED @R!CK @kaykay @[Bregs] @Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @others.
 
For what?
Ambiguity for doctrine and aircraft identified for strategic payloads.
Higher availability rate will showcase they are for strategic package and then our media may cover and compromise their locations. Such bases would be under constant monitoring and will deemed HV targets in the event of any conflict beyond the usual crippling of operations aspect.
 
Higher availability rate will showcase they are for strategic package
Media is not that stupid, and what ever availability rates, they know the reason why we opt for it and what role it need to pay..... Instead by showing lower availability rate they might attract another CAG report and will have to face the same media's trial .....
 
@nair @PARIKRAMA

Ignore availability issue. Reserves are built for that. For a certain number of days of intensive war. It is akin to the Su-30 issue, it was a laugh when the claims were being made in public of servicibility. For war, the issue is different.

Again, example of IL-76. Not more than 2 or 3 are flying at a time. But for projection 7 were flown to Leh simultaneously in 1 wave in 2012. And supposedly we dont have spares for that either. Or for Mi-26. Too many AOGs:p:
 
@nair @PARIKRAMA

Ignore availability issue. Reserves are built for that. For a certain number of days of intensive war. It is akin to the Su-30 issue, it was a laugh when the claims were being made in public of servicibility. For war, the issue is different.

Again, example of IL-76. Not more than 2 or 3 are flying at a time. But for projection 7 were flown to Leh simultaneously in 1 wave in 2012. And supposedly we dont have spares for that either. Or for Mi-26. Too many AOGs:p:

I would have ignored it, But i was interested to know the reason behind the attempt to show a lower availability rate deliberately......:)
 
I fail to understand why they report Meteor purchase as a big surprise? Why don't they also say it comes with 2 engines as well? :hitwall:



This was possible because no other export order existed, so only French AF had to make a sacrifice. Right now we got French, Qatar and Egypt. While French may sacrifice further, we cant expect the same from other two customers. While I do expect deliveries before the 36 month standard, 3-6 months could be next to impossible. Another important factor being, Egypt choosing a very basic standard next to French, while Qatar and IAF requesting for more customization. The customized variants might require a slightly longer test regime for the first few aircraft. Anyways happy times ahead.

Good Day all!
Right !
But Dassault always has nearly 30 fighters for France in the backlog (before a last and final 5° batch).... I think it will be possible to take 3 to 6 planes for training issue in India. Even in a french standard (for the beginning).
 
The French have offered to fine tune and upgrade the Kaveri engine for 1 billion euro or dollar, will that be done from offset clause money or new deal will be signed ? or else it would be done when further deal for MII is signed
 

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