Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[BON PLAN]

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india-wants-to-buy-predator-guardian-uavs-from-the-us/20160622.htm

I was thinking India needed Avenger.... May be Avenger + Predator...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Talk abt how livefist is shocked that even after first pointing their mistake and Rafale addition late in the poll, finally it's Rafale onl which won the poll

And they don want to declare results now citing meek reasons...

 

[Piper]

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Talk abt how livefist is shocked that even after first pointing their mistake and Rafale addition late in the poll, finally it's Rafale onl which won the poll

And they don want to declare results now citing meek reasons...

So much money being wasted by SAAB

 

[Techy]

So much money being wasted by SAAB

Not so much money.. I am sure that a couple of thousand dollars would have done their work

 

[raj76]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Indo-French-deal-for-36-Rafale-Fighter-Jets-move-forward-6197


New Delhi is in the final stages of a process that could lead to a contract for 36 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft. Negotiations between Indian and French teams regarding the final terms of the contract are now concluded, said defence minister Manohar Parrikar during a recent visit to Bengaluru. “I should receive their report this week and the ministry will analyse it and then send it to the Government,” he said. “After the report is submitted, it may take the government four to five weeks to officially come to a conclusion as to the final terms of the contract.” Parrikar made the remarks during a recent visit to Bangalore. He indicated that the contract would be valued at approximately $7-8 billion. New Delhi will also look to acquire a singleengined and a twinengined fighter type under the Government’s ‘MakeinIndia’ initiative for manufacture in India. “We also envisage acquiring singleengined and twinengined fighter aircraft under the ‘Make in India’ programme,” he says. “Final discussions are likely to be concluded in a couple of months to decide the exact course of action, though more or less the line is decided.” Extensive negotiations have reportedly been underway between the Ministry of Defence and the air force to decide on the final requirements and iron out the financial aspects of such a proposal. The plans for production of a twinengined fighter in India could tiein with recent remarks by Dassault Aviation chief executive Eric Trappier: “At the moment we are negotiating the price for the first 36……we are already preparing the second phase of the contract, that is an additional order of some 90 aircraft but that is in the long term.” Saab has been running a highly visible campaign in India to promote the Gripen E to be built in India. Lockheed Martin has offered its F16V and Boeing has proposed the F/A18 E/F Super Hornet for manufacture in India.

 

[W@rwolf]

Rafale negotiations concluded according to Flight Global report. Talks about 36 + the other 90 jets in the 2nd phase as per Dassault CEO Trappier

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/indian-deal-for-36-rafales-moves-forward-426617/

""New Delhi is in the final stages of a process that could lead to a contract for 36 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

Negotiations between Indian and French teams regarding the final terms of the contract are now CONCLUDED, said defence minister Manohar Parrikar during a recent visit to Bengaluru.

“I should receive their report this week and the ministry will analyse it and then send it to the Government,” he said. “After the report is submitted, it may take the government four to five weeks to officially come to a conclusion as to the final terms of the contract.”

Parrikar made the remarks during a recent visit to Bangalore. He indicated that the contract would be valued at approximately $7-8 billion.

New Delhi will also look to acquire a single-engined and a twin-engined fighter type under the Government’s ‘Make-in-India’ initiative for manufacture in India.

“We also envisage acquiring single-engined and twin-engined fighter aircraft under the ‘Make in India’ programme,” he says. “Final discussions are likely to be concluded in a couple of months to decide the exact course of action, though more or less the line is decided.”

Extensive negotiations have reportedly been underway between the Ministry of Defence and the air force to decide on the final requirements and iron out the financial aspects of such a proposal.

The plans for production of a twin-engined fighter in India could tie-in with recent remarks by Dassault Aviation chief executive Eric Trappier: “At the moment we are negotiating the price for the first 36……we are already preparing the second phase of the contract, that is an additional order of some 90 aircraft but that is in the long term.”

Saab has been running a highly visible campaign in India to promote the Gripen E to be built in India. Lockheed Martin has offered its F-16V and Boeing has proposed the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet for manufacture in India.""

 

[randomradio]

Rafale and Gripen MIIs are practically guaranteed. Now the question is whether Parrikar will also order the SH.

Gripen MII is guaranteed because it is cheaper and better than the F-16.

 

[W@rwolf]

Gripen MII is guaranteed because it is cheaper and better than the F-16.

Have you considered setting up of 2nd LCA production line with help of private cos?

 

[randomradio]

Have you considered setting up of 2nd LCA production line with help of private cos?

There are two problems:
1. We are yet to see if the LCA program succeeds.
2. If production is to be expanded, HAL wants to do it.

The issue with point 2 is HAL doesn't want to give away their hold on the LCA program. In fact, they now want the govt to cancel the multiple MRCA programs and focus only on their products. They want the LCA program extended to 24 jets a year. So in case a second line is setup, it is doubtful if HAL will assist the private companies with good intentions.

Regardless of what you see here, Gripen is not seen as a threat to the LCA program.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Rafale and Gripen MIIs are practically guaranteed. Now the question is whether Parrikar will also order the SH.

Gripen MII is guaranteed because it is cheaper and better than the F-16.

Grippen is not better than F 16

Let us go for F 16 if we are going to make TWO planes

And if we decide to make only ONE plane then it should be Rafale

 

[randomradio]

Grippen is not better than F 16

Let us go for F 16 if we are going to make TWO planes

And if we decide to make only ONE plane then it should be Rafale

Gripen is easily a generation ahead, both in performance and avionics. Plus Gripen is cheaper in LCC.

Plus it will increase GE's footprint in India making ToT easier for AMCA.

The decision for making Rafales has already been taken. Rafales are coming. We are talking about a second imported line, and a third.

 

[zebra7]

Gripen is easily a generation ahead, both in performance and avionics. Plus Gripen is cheaper in LCC.

Plus it will increase GE's footprint in India making ToT easier for AMCA.

The decision for making Rafales has already been taken. Rafales are coming. We are talking about a second imported line, and a third.

Generation is just the marketing terms. And with the Block 60 upgrade, and a working AESA radar in F-16, care to explain how it is a generation ahead in Avionics. Second is the LCC, F-16 is never lagging in this domain also

GE footprint is already high now. A fighter plane needs 2.5 engine in its life time, with 120 confirm MK-1, and IN already committed for 42 LCA MK-2, and around 90 MK-1 trainer, and MK-2 for airforce, which also wants GE-F-414 IN60, and very much possible AMCA -- Do the calculation

Yes Rafale is already and should be selected.

Let me clear one thing -- Make in India, means India, wants various global OEMs to setup plants in India, and take the advantage of pool of highly skilled engineer and technitians available in the country, and relatively cheaper labour cost, to lower down the production cost. This just not automatically makes that India would be the customer of the product and very much possible that, Make in India Gripen would be bought by Swedish Airforce.

Just like, Gerenal Motors Ambassador car, when 100,000 cars were imported to U.K.

 

[BON PLAN]

Gripen is easily a generation ahead, both in performance and avionics. Plus Gripen is cheaper in LCC.

Plus it will increase GE's footprint in India making ToT easier for AMCA.

The decision for making Rafales has already been taken. Rafales are coming. We are talking about a second imported line, and a third.

Three lines? If you choose the right two first, you will not need a third one. It will be a waste on money and energy. Do you ever have enough strong company to cope in such high technology?

With a good deal from the first two, you will have largely enough ToT to boost your aerospace industry. From that point of view Gripen E seemed a nice second choice.

 

[W@rwolf]

There are two problems:
1. We are yet to see if the LCA program succeeds.
2. If production is to be expanded, HAL wants to do it.

The issue with point 2 is HAL doesn't want to give away their hold on the LCA program. In fact, they now want the govt to cancel the multiple MRCA programs and focus only on their products. They want the LCA program extended to 24 jets a year. So in case a second line is setup, it is doubtful if HAL will assist the private companies with good intentions.

Regardless of what you see here, Gripen is not seen as a threat to the LCA program.

1. The LCA program is already successful. The govt is not going to stop at the 120+ plus figure, its a fact. The question is whether the govt will go for more Mk-1As or order the MK-2 (it depends on HAL to complete the later's development)
At the most we can see is SAAB co-operating with HAL for Mk-1A and MK-2 development.
Gripen is not coming to India for two reasons:

a) Will never be procured under IAFs medium fighter requirement as it has failed the GSQR
b) Under light fighter requirement, Gripen doesnt bring anything significant to the table that the Tejas Mk-2 cannot offer.​

Also it will take the 3-5 years for the first fighter to be delivered. By that time the Mk-1A production would have started.

2. Ofcourse the HAL would not want to give up its monopoly. But it doesn't have the final say in the matter, its the government's decision. And the current trend shows us that the govt is willing to team up with private players for faster production and induction of platforms.
Also the pvt players wont incur losses by setting up parallel production to HAL's main line since IAF will have orders for different aircrafts stretching on for atleast the next 2 decades and they can start with the next aircraft once the previous one is completed. (Mk-2, Rafale's MII prod line, AMCA, FGFA and I can also see a 5th gen spin off from LCA). HAL will have its handfull with Mk-1A, Mk-2, AMCA, FGFA along with BTT-40, IJT, Dhruv, Rudra, LCH and the LUH-Ka-226 combo.
So HAL is never loosing out on revenue.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Gripen is easily a generation ahead, both in performance and avionics. Plus Gripen is cheaper in LCC.

Plus it will increase GE's footprint in India making ToT easier for AMCA.

The decision for making Rafales has already been taken. Rafales are coming. We are talking about a second imported line, and a third.

forget it grippen just has the biggest marketing budget than any other OEM in indian defnce market and SAAB dont have any ground breaking tech with them what either LM or Boeing or GE or BAE cant give us

plus the fact we need at least two new MRCA to complement LCA one is rafale for sure (126 for IAF and 36 for IN)the other one is for sure a american fighter and since both LM & Boeing wanted to go alone in indian defence market under MII it could either be F16V or F/A-18 E/F but grippen forget it