Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[dadeechi]

Once upon a time India was supposed to receive 126 Rafales for $20 billion, now (if India is lucky) it'll be forking out $11 billion for only 36.
.

Originally it was 126 RAFALEs for $10 Billion and the first RAFALE was supposed to have landed in India in 2015.


Rafale Wins the MMRCA Competition

​

Ramesh Phadke
February 06, 2012
The French Dassault Rafale has reportedly won the coveted contract for 126 MMRCA on the basis of its price being lower than the Eurofighter Typhoon. It is still early days, however, as months of detailed negotiations would inevitably follow before such a complex and high priced contract is finally signed.

The IAF had always rooted for the Rafale and hence it should be happy and satisfied over a job well done considering the complexity and the time delays involved when a large number of decision makers are in the loop. One of the reasons the IAF favoured this fighter, besides intrinsic merit, is its experience with the Mirage-2000 fighters acquired in 1984-85. The Mirage was used first in the opening phase in Sri Lanka. Later the Mirage also proved its superior technology during the 1999 Kargil conflict when the small enemy targets at high altitude could not be successfully engaged with other strike fighters. The Mirage-2000 fleet has maintained a very high serviceability and utilisation rate and above all an unbelievably envious flight safety record. It is hoped that the Rafale would prove equally effective and economical in the long run. The main reason for the high serviceability of the Mirage-2000 fleet, I am told, is the near instant availability of spares and technical support from the French Dassault and the Thales team, and a state of the art avionics laboratory in Gwalior that is more sterile than the best hospital’s Intensive Care Unit (ICU). Considering that the quality of technical manpower is about the same across the IAF, it must be the Western technology, training and SOPs formulated by the French and the constantly close interaction between the user and the provider that are responsible for the success of the Mirage-2000 fleet. It is perhaps for this reason that India has chosen to upgrade the Mirage-2000 fleet for a whopping USD 1.8 billion. The IAF will surely do the same with the Rafale to obtain timely spares and maintenance support.

This is the first export contract that Dassault has won and the possibility of the IAF ordering more Rafale fighters in due course puts a very heavy responsibility on the French as future global contracts will probably be influenced by the Indian experience. Dassault will be expected to transfer all the requisite ‘knowledge’ for safe and efficient operations of this fourth generation fighter. High sortie rates and easy maintainability would be the key to the success of the Rafale project. Although a shade less expensive than the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Rafale is among the most expensive fighters in the world. India would thus look for real value for money in Transfer of Technology (ToT) and life cycle costs.

Another key area of cooperation would be the assistance France provides for India’s long running Kaveri engine programme. All defence contracts of this scale are said to include up to 50 per cent offset obligation. Given the current state of Indian defence industry and the associated regulations, both India and France would have to find new and innovative ways to translate that into reality. The Rafale carries a wide array of highly sophisticated weapons and missiles without which it is but an advanced platform. India would be well advised to explore the manufacture of as many of these weapons and missiles as possible. Avionics including the AESA radar (itself under development) is another area for close cooperation and ToT, if this relationship is to become truly rewarding for both sides. HAL, the Indian company that will eventually manufacture the remaining 108 fighters in India, and other associated SMEs would also require very close support and understanding to put India firmly on the hi-tech trajectory. France can play a vital role in easing the learning curve. In fact, the MoD, especially its Department of Defence Production, must facilitate India’s defence industry to team up with France to design and develop other systems such as UAV and UCAV, multipurpose missiles especially MANPADs, PGMs and a host of other weapons for Indian consumption and even exports.

The first batch of 18 Rafale fighters in flyaway condition is likely to reach the Indian skies only in 2015 which gives the IAF adequate time to carefully prepare the support infrastructure for the Rafale. At least initially, the IAF will most probably house the first squadron at Gwalior, the Mirage-2000 base. Given Indian flying conditions, the IAF will also have to ensure a relatively bird-free flying environment.

It must be noted that though the Rafale may cost less than the Eurofighter, it is still awfully expensive. Unit costs of upwards of USD 100-125 million or Rs. 500-625 crore have been mentioned. The aircraft’s upkeep and maintenance would thus demand a very high level of training and skills both by the pilots and technical personnel. We simply cannot afford stupid mistakes. This would require a fundamental change in our outlook to peacetime operations where availability of support services such as weather forecasting, air traffic control, ground infrastructure such as clean and clear runways and navigation and radar facilities would have to be ensured on a 24/7 basis. Murphy’s Law operates even in today’s hi-tech environment, perhaps even more so. Peacetime flying operations are as demanding as those in war. The IAF will have to quickly train its pilots and support personnel to make the Rafale fully operational in good time.

 

[Dungeness]

Originally it was 126 RAFALEs for $10 Billion and the first RAFALE was supposed to have landed in India in 2015.


Rafale Wins the MMRCA Competition

​

Ramesh Phadke
February 06, 2012
The French Dassault Rafale has reportedly won the coveted contract for 126 MMRCA on the basis of its price being lower than the Eurofighter Typhoon. It is still early days, however, as months of detailed negotiations would inevitably follow before such a complex and high priced contract is finally signed.

The IAF had always rooted for the Rafale and hence it should be happy and satisfied over a job well done considering the complexity and the time delays involved when a large number of decision makers are in the loop. One of the reasons the IAF favoured this fighter, besides intrinsic merit, is its experience with the Mirage-2000 fighters acquired in 1984-85. The Mirage was used first in the opening phase in Sri Lanka. Later the Mirage also proved its superior technology during the 1999 Kargil conflict when the small enemy targets at high altitude could not be successfully engaged with other strike fighters. The Mirage-2000 fleet has maintained a very high serviceability and utilisation rate and above all an unbelievably envious flight safety record. It is hoped that the Rafale would prove equally effective and economical in the long run. The main reason for the high serviceability of the Mirage-2000 fleet, I am told, is the near instant availability of spares and technical support from the French Dassault and the Thales team, and a state of the art avionics laboratory in Gwalior that is more sterile than the best hospital’s Intensive Care Unit (ICU). Considering that the quality of technical manpower is about the same across the IAF, it must be the Western technology, training and SOPs formulated by the French and the constantly close interaction between the user and the provider that are responsible for the success of the Mirage-2000 fleet. It is perhaps for this reason that India has chosen to upgrade the Mirage-2000 fleet for a whopping USD 1.8 billion. The IAF will surely do the same with the Rafale to obtain timely spares and maintenance support.

This is the first export contract that Dassault has won and the possibility of the IAF ordering more Rafale fighters in due course puts a very heavy responsibility on the French as future global contracts will probably be influenced by the Indian experience. Dassault will be expected to transfer all the requisite ‘knowledge’ for safe and efficient operations of this fourth generation fighter. High sortie rates and easy maintainability would be the key to the success of the Rafale project. Although a shade less expensive than the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Rafale is among the most expensive fighters in the world. India would thus look for real value for money in Transfer of Technology (ToT) and life cycle costs.

Another key area of cooperation would be the assistance France provides for India’s long running Kaveri engine programme. All defence contracts of this scale are said to include up to 50 per cent offset obligation. Given the current state of Indian defence industry and the associated regulations, both India and France would have to find new and innovative ways to translate that into reality. The Rafale carries a wide array of highly sophisticated weapons and missiles without which it is but an advanced platform. India would be well advised to explore the manufacture of as many of these weapons and missiles as possible. Avionics including the AESA radar (itself under development) is another area for close cooperation and ToT, if this relationship is to become truly rewarding for both sides. HAL, the Indian company that will eventually manufacture the remaining 108 fighters in India, and other associated SMEs would also require very close support and understanding to put India firmly on the hi-tech trajectory. France can play a vital role in easing the learning curve. In fact, the MoD, especially its Department of Defence Production, must facilitate India’s defence industry to team up with France to design and develop other systems such as UAV and UCAV, multipurpose missiles especially MANPADs, PGMs and a host of other weapons for Indian consumption and even exports.

The first batch of 18 Rafale fighters in flyaway condition is likely to reach the Indian skies only in 2015 which gives the IAF adequate time to carefully prepare the support infrastructure for the Rafale. At least initially, the IAF will most probably house the first squadron at Gwalior, the Mirage-2000 base. Given Indian flying conditions, the IAF will also have to ensure a relatively bird-free flying environment.

It must be noted that though the Rafale may cost less than the Eurofighter, it is still awfully expensive. Unit costs of upwards of USD 100-125 million or Rs. 500-625 crore have been mentioned. The aircraft’s upkeep and maintenance would thus demand a very high level of training and skills both by the pilots and technical personnel. We simply cannot afford stupid mistakes. This would require a fundamental change in our outlook to peacetime operations where availability of support services such as weather forecasting, air traffic control, ground infrastructure such as clean and clear runways and navigation and radar facilities would have to be ensured on a 24/7 basis. Murphy’s Law operates even in today’s hi-tech environment, perhaps even more so. Peacetime flying operations are as demanding as those in war. The IAF will have to quickly train its pilots and support personnel to make the Rafale fully operational in good time.

Exactly 4 years past, there is nothing concrete on the ground, and now you have to spend even more for less than 1/3 planes. Something is very wrong with this whole fiasco.

 

[Dungeness]

At this point India should just man up and pay for it. What's another year's cost to India. Buy it and move on, in the grand scheme of things, it hardly matters.

At least India's problems can be solved by money, China in the 90s can't even get deals done even with money. Don't even remember how many deals the West backed out of, even when we agreed to their escalating demands.

In another decade, who's going to remember this four billion, who's going to remember tomorrow...

My suggestion would be just opposite.

India should just forget about whole Rafale thing, and focus its own MMRCA project with that 11 billions. Swallow your pride, and do everything you can to get all necessary technologies, be it "copy and paste" or "hook or crook" or "hack or steal". Put the experience you gained with LCA project to good use. Those ToT you paid a great deal for doesn't do you any good if you don't bite the bullet and go through the entire process of designing and building your own planes. After all, nobody is really willing to share the core defense technologies with you anyway, and it doesn't matter how much you pay.

It will take sometime with this route, but you have spent more than a decade on this MMRCA procurement already anyway. It is not like anybody will attack India anytime soon, and even if it comes the worst, your PM can always write a letter to the President of the United States of American, and he may be more willing to help this time.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

More than the Financing aspect, the deal is being delayed for the completion of the DPP-2016.

The final contract signature would happen after DPP-2016 is released to avoid legal issues.

With regards to the concern on the down payment & CAPEX, the terms generally should allow at least 90 days which would take it to the next fiscal year.



===================================================================================


Qatar makes delayed down payment on French fighter jets
December 19, 2015 by Victoria Scott




Qatar has made the first down payment on its order of 24 Rafale fighter jets, eight months after it agreed to the purchase with French manufacturer Dassault.

The move puts an end to speculation that Qatar might be having second thoughts about the deal, which is thought to be worth around €6.3 billion (QR25.7 billion).

French newspapers had speculated that a huge fall in global energy prices was behind the delay, with French financial newspaper Les Echos suggesting that Qatar’s government required a loan via US banks to help finance the deal.

Tightening belts
The news of the down payment came just before Qatar’s Emir approved a government budget for 2016 that significantly cuts expenditures.


The document shows that the country plans to spend 7.28 percent, or QR15.9 billion, less next year.

A growing hole in the country’s finances due to falling oil and gas prices has made the government make some tough choices.


The total deficit in next year’s budget is estimated at QR46.5 billion.

Instead of cutting expenditure further, however, Qatar’s Finance Minister Ali Shareef Al Emadi said that Qatar had decided to borrow money to make up the shortfall, rather than tapping into its vast savings.

Rafale deal
Qatar’s deal with Dassault was signed in April this year, ending a bidding war between the French manufacturer and rival aerospace firms in the US and UK.

The down payment means Dassault can now begin to build the 24 jets, the first of which are due for delivery in 2018.

The deal also includes the training of 36 pilots and 100 aircraft mechanics.

Qatar’s commitment to upgrading its air force with new fighters is part of a massive military buildup that has seen the government order some QR87 billion worth of new equipment in the last couple of years.

In a recent report, Jane’s Defence concluded that this trend was likely to continue “in the short term,” but that is was unclear whether Qatar’s focus would “shift elsewhere” in the longer term due to financial pressures.

Thoughts?


http://dohanews.co/qatar-makes-delayed-payment-french-fighter-jets/

We are planning to pay more than 15% signing amount , infact closer to 50% of the deal amount but in return we want the delivery as per our schedule and the offset implementation for the MII part. Thats why financing terms are the issues. As such we are bargaining that since its no more TIme Value of Money equation, the present value of the whole purchase dictates a much needed discount due to a massive down payment...

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

Once upon a time PAF was to get 36 J-10s too. I wonder what happened to that. lol

Humari $ 11 billion me fati hai aur unki, $ 4 billion me..

Everybody has their saturation point..

Ontopic(slightly offtopic though) : If F-22 has $ 700+ million cost with maintenance and weapon, then why the hell Russian and Chinese want to match F-22 ? Or they'll realize after they build 150+ fighters, just the way USAF realized ?

 

[Nilgiri]

@sarjenprabhu @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

From the initial quoted full combined cycle cost of 250 million per plane by french....how much is just the non-offset component of aircraft (airframe +hardware + weapons). I.e take away all the opex costs.

Do you guys know? (Sorry if you have already said somewhere....TL;DR etc..)

 

[SQ8]

Then the Pakistani pilots flew them....and left with full of praise for the bird and they never cameback

They also realized that a certain President they had was eating into the economy so bad that new equipments aside, it was getting difficult to even keep the current fleet flyable with the paucity of funds.
If there was any time to hit Pakistan, it was 2011.. the country would have been a walkover.

Thankfully, the only people who could were the Americans and they were still too paranoid about us thinking its you guys and doing something stupid.

When it comes to India and Pakistan , they hold this true for each other.
"Somnath ka mandir jiss ne bhi tora, paise aap ki jaib se kate gain".

As for the Rafale deal, all the financial number crunching posted away here seems amusing when they are excluding the greatest cost of all to the IAF : TIME!

 

[$@rJen]

From the initial quoted full combined cycle cost of 250 million per plane by french....how much is just the non-offset component of aircraft (airframe +hardware + weapons). I.e take away all the opex costs.

Do you guys know? (Sorry if you have already said somewhere....TL;DR etc..)

i guess it would be the same of what Egypt and Qatar paid around 7 billions for 24 jets with weapons and life cycle cost, training and etc

 

[Cyberian]

Once upon a time PAF was to get 36 J-10s too. I wonder what happened to that. lol

Floods and Global Financial Crises happened. Hence Pakistan today produces a new JF-17 Thunder every fortnight.

 

[kaykay]

Floods and Global Financial Crises happened. Hence Pakistan today produces a new JF-17 Thunder every fortnight.

Well you are producing JF-17s while we are producing Su-30MKIs at same rate. Its not that we are sitting idle.

PS: Tejas is also joining our production lines along with MKIs. So we can wait for Rafale.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@sarjenprabhu @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

From the initial quoted full combined cycle cost of 250 million per plane by french....how much is just the non-offset component of aircraft (airframe +hardware + weapons). I.e take away all the opex costs.

Do you guys know? (Sorry if you have already said somewhere....TL;DR etc..)

Well i go by another analysis that has been with me for some time. Its for a commercial jet but a rough analogy may be used for computation.

LCC is in simple words Design manufacture operation disposal cost over lifetime

Source: 16,885 Aircraft systems Engineering Cost analysis by Karen Wilcox , MIT, ACDL

Now i can give the Design to manufacturing costs based on open sources and very very rough estimations.

See part 1

Basically it implies based on the program cost and present confirmed orders (including 36 Indian Rafales), the amortised per unit cost comes out to be Euro 133.61 Mn

Part 2 based on number of orders, this amortised per unit cost comes down as below

As seen the amortised cost if Rafale reaches a similar number as Mirages of say 600 nos, will be Euro 98.69 Mn per Jet

Part 3,
From the same Karen Wilcox research,

FOr the time being let us assume the life cycle cost based on the above model only negating its for commercial jets bcz Crew cost 40% can be replaced by 10% additional cost in fuel and 30% cost of weapons. This means fuel cost is now 30%

and using the publicly available one figure

Source http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes

So if we go from bottom to top, Rafale Operational Cost is estimated at $16,500 per hour

Rafale Loiter time is around 3 hours

So based on the above data

Part 4 is total LIfe Cycle costs of all steps together and thus it is Euro 133.61 Mn + Euro 43.40 Mn = Euro 177 Mn or $ 191.16 Mn

If you consider from Flyaway price then life cycle cost is 3 X multiple of flyaway cost.

Considering a scenario under MII with 100 more orders and export follow and new orders, the potential Amortised price of 450 jets is Euro 111 Mn implying LCC cost of Euro 154 Mn
If its for India 200 Jets, and another exports and France orders adding a total of 300 over present 309 orders meaning a total of 600 jets then amortised cost comes out to Euro 98.7 Mn and LCC cost would be Euro 142 Mn

This shows why the line in India is strategic in nature as the MII order allows around of 10-20% savings in cost

Judging by the capital cost component per base setup per squadron should be around Euro 522 Mn so for our 2 base of operations it should be around Euro 1 Bn.

Thats the best i understand. IF anyone has a different understanding pls feel free to explain so that i can also understand from that.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

++
Source based information - (take it with pinch of salt, dont blame me)
++

• IGA is 150 odd pages
• India wanted guarantees from French Government
• The main guarantee was the term that India (IAF+IN) needs a much higher number jets than 36+18 now being discussed
• French government will monitor the whole deal execution for present as well as future deals
• The main agenda includes France government and its mechanism monitoring the entire deal, delivery schedule and legal issues arising out of ay performance based financial penalty.
• The IGA describes the entire details of the jet, standard, armaments and customization
• Customization includes Astra BVR integration + another few specific customization which needs development and financing by India.
• This new customization will in fact push the Rafales being inducted into India and now the first Rafale will join in 3 years and last on in 5.5 years.
• Manufacturers of the entire supply chain of Dassault are suppose to submit their counter parties tie up or opening of new facilities in India to Dassault and in turn Dassault would submit the same to French Government
• Dassault also wants a possibility of moving Falcon jets line to India besides the Rafale Jet
• The deal sets up the whole basic infrastructure required for next set of Rafales without new investments in basic infrastructures.
• The 2 bases will act as the MRO centers besides the main manufacturing plant.
• The spares/service being procured is for 10 years and India is negotiating for 15 years at the same price.
• Bullet payment upto 50% against signing amount of 15% is being offered for quicker implementation, more discounts and offset implementation on time.
• The basic cost of 36 jets and weapons with offsets are in line with a price tag of approximate Rs 800 Crs. Negotiations going on to decrease it
• The fighters are for 40 years and service has been requested to ensure these jets can serve 50 years.
• The customization cost is coming out high as Indian Rafales will be in between F3 OT4 but less than F3R. Such customization are at present Not requested by any AF including FrAF (beyond IRST)
• The customization cost itself is estimated at close to Euro 2 Bn plus which includes systems/sub systems from Israel and is a one time cost for all future purchases at one go.
• Integration of one more sub system to fire US Harpoon AShM (to be taken over for Anti Shipping roles)
• The infrastructure, support, services, spares and other categories under total cost of ownership are estimated at around Euro 5 Bn
• Jets + weapons are estimated at Euro 4 bn
• The deal all inclusive is estimated at Euro 11 Bn
• The final negotiations are going on to see how a Euro 0.5 bn-1 Bn cost can be reduced and some terms can be altered for more favoring to Indian requests. The deal may get lower cost in case of some terms being left or deleted by Indian side but that seems very difficult.

+++
@Abingdonboy @anant_s @cerberus @Vauban @MilSpec @others
This customization which source refused to elaborate and said will be known soon in media is a bit touchy topic. What customization did India ask for. Can it Astra, IRST and HMDS+ amti shipping missile integration?

He did not elaborate much but just said somethings (plural) from Israel making it a very unique Rafale ever build.

The Harpoon customization is also a news to me for Anti Shipping roles perhaps indicating the present roles by other categories in IAF will be taken over by these birds.

And if Harpoon then how many we have? If we are integrating Harpoons also then are going to order new Harpoons soon from USA?Or is it Brahmos?

its now more tizzy for me.. I am perplexed actually.. Did offset led to rise in Infra support services price? Customizations is a huge amount?

 

[anant_s]

++
Source based information - (take it with pinch of salt, dont blame me)
++

• IGA is 150 odd pages
• India wanted guarantees from French Government
• The main guarantee was the term that India (IAF+IN) needs a much higher number jets than 36+18 now being discussed
• French government will monitor the whole deal execution for present as well as future deals
• The main agenda includes France government and its mechanism monitoring the entire deal, delivery schedule and legal issues arising out of ay performance based financial penalty.
• The IGA describes the entire details of the jet, standard, armaments and customization
• Customization includes Astra BVR integration + another few specific customization which needs development and financing by India.
• This new customization will in fact push the Rafales being inducted into India and now the first Rafale will join in 3 years and last on in 5.5 years.
• Manufacturers of the entire supply chain of Dassault are suppose to submit their counter parties tie up or opening of new facilities in India to Dassault and in turn Dassault would submit the same to French Government
• Dassault also wants a possibility of moving Falcon jets line to India besides the Rafale Jet
• The deal sets up the whole basic infrastructure required for next set of Rafales without new investments in basic infrastructures.
• The 2 bases will act as the MRO centers besides the main manufacturing plant.
• The spares/service being procured is for 10 years and India is negotiating for 15 years at the same price.
• Bullet payment upto 50% against signing amount of 15% is being offered for quicker implementation, more discounts and offset implementation on time.
• The basic cost of 36 jets and weapons with offsets are in line with a price tag of approximate Rs 800 Crs. Negotiations going on to decrease it
• The fighters are for 40 years and service has been requested to ensure these jets can serve 50 years.
• The customization cost is coming out high as Indian Rafales will be in between F3 OT4 but less than F3R. Such customization are at present Not requested by any AF including FrAF (beyond IRST)
• The customization cost itself is estimated at close to Euro 2 Bn plus which includes systems/sub systems from Israel and is a one time cost for all future purchases at one go.
• Integration of one more sub system to fire US Harpoon AShM (to be taken over for Anti Shipping roles)
• The infrastructure, support, services, spares and other categories under total cost of ownership are estimated at around Euro 5 Bn
• Jets + weapons are estimated at Euro 4 bn
• The deal all inclusive is estimated at Euro 11 Bn
• The final negotiations are going on to see how a Euro 0.5 bn-1 Bn cost can be reduced and some terms can be altered for more favoring to Indian requests. The deal may get lower cost in case of some terms being left or deleted by Indian side but that seems very difficult.

+++
@Abingdonboy @anant_s @cerberus @Vauban @MilSpec @others
This customization which source refused to elaborate and said will be known soon in media is a bit touchy topic. What customization did India ask for. Can it Astra, IRST and HMDS+ amti shipping missile integration?

He did not elaborate much but just said somethings (plural) from Israel making it a very unique Rafale ever build.

The Harpoon customization is also a news to me for Anti Shipping roles perhaps indicating the present roles by other categories in IAF will be taken over by these birds.

And if Harpoon then how many we have? If we are integrating Harpoons also then are going to order new Harpoons soon from USA?Or is it Brahmos?

its now more tizzy for me.. I am perplexed actually.. Did offset led to rise in Infra support services price? Customizations is a huge amount?

Well one thing is looking quite clear even if the points mentioned above couldn't be verified at this point of time (they appear logical though). India is looking to create an Air Force around Rafale. these are going to be our workhorses for the future.
Let us remind ourselves of two very important points that swayed decision in favor of Rafale and EFT during MMRCA days were:

1. Both Rafale and EFT are immune to any kind of Super-power influence at later point of time, should there be changes in national foreign policy.
2. Both Rafale and EFT are relatively very new aircrafts and only beginning a long (at least 2 decades) of improvement and development of newer variants/tranches.

MMRCA fell flat in its face but that was owing to procurement procedures we adopted and not on technical capability of fighters. But with Indian government approaching Rafale induction through and alternate path tells, where our faith lies. Here i must point out, that it is a new government which is trying to find out ways to induct a hardware that previous government chose, which also tells that even with different political ideology, the decision taken by user (IAF) is given topmost respect, which i find very heartening.

Now some of us (myself included) here on PDF believe that India will end up having 10-12 squadrons of Rafale and it means that apart from heavy role MKIs and point defence or light role LCA, almost all duties will go to Rafale. I don't want to comment on FGFA and AMCA as we really don't know when and how they'll come.

So if one is taking decisions based purely on options available on table, investing in large scale on Rafale will turn out to be a wise decision.
10 years down the line we won't remember a couple of billion dollars plus or minus in this deal, but the strategic clarity and offset advantage it should bring to Indian forces and industry.

As for the Rafale deal, all the financial number crunching posted away here seems amusing when they are excluding the greatest cost of all to the IAF : TIME!

can't be put it in any better words!
That's the crux of whole issue.

 

[kaykay]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Taygibay

https://twitter.com/x/status/692368516385751040

This coming from a journo with IBN7 TV.....

 

[sathya]

5 years from now,
no more migs except

mig29upg/k/kub ,upgraded jaguars , LCA , su 30mki, Rafales, few samples of pak fa.

ALH , rudra , ACH , mi 17v , chinook , Apache, LUH

Good 4th generation fighters.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Taygibay

https://twitter.com/x/status/692368516385751040

This coming from a journo with IBN7 TV.....

Marginally is how much ?

Did we compromise on anything?