Dark lands: the grim truth behind the 'Scandinavian miracle'

[Dubious]

This really was written by some sad Brit!
By Michael Booth

For the past few years the world has been in thrall to all things Nordic (for which purpose we must of course add Iceland and Finland to the Viking nations of Denmark, Norway and Sweden). "The Sweet Danish Life: Copenhagen: Cool, Creative, Carefree," simpered National Geographic; "The Nordic Countries: The Next Supermodel", boomed the Economist; "Copenhagen really is wonderful for so many reasons,"gushed the Guardian.

Whether it is Denmark's happiness, its restaurants, or TV dramas; Sweden's gender equality, crime novels and retail giants; Finland's schools; Norway's oil wealth and weird songs about foxes; or Iceland's bounce-back from the financial abyss, we have an insatiable appetite for positive Nordic news stories. After decades dreaming of life among olive trees and vineyards, these days for some reason, we Brits are now projecting our need for the existence of an earthly paradise northwards.

I have contributed to the relentless Tetris shower of print columns on the wonders of Scandinavia myself over the years but now I say: enough! Nu er det nok! Enough with foraging for dinner. Enough with the impractical minimalist interiors. Enough with the envious reports on the abolition of gender-specific pronouns. Enough of the unblinking idolatry of all things knitted, bearded, rye bread-based and licorice-laced. It is time to redress the imbalance, shed a little light Beyond the Wall.

Take the Danes, for instance. True, they claim to be the happiest people in the world, but why no mention of the fact they are second only to Iceland when it comes to consuming anti- depressants? And Sweden? If, as a headline in this paper once claimed, it is "the most successful society the world has ever seen", why aren't more of you dreaming of "a little place" in Umeå?

Actually, I have lived in Denmark – on and off – for about a decade, because my wife's work is here (and she's Danish). Life here is pretty comfortable, more so for indigenous families than for immigrants or ambitious go-getters (Google "Jantelov" for more on this), but as with all the Nordic nations, it remains largely free of armed conflict, extreme poverty, natural disasters and Jeremy Kyle.

So let's remove those rose-tinted ski goggles and take a closer look at the objects of our infatuation …

Protesters clash with police at an asylum centre near Copenhagen in 2008. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images

DENMARK

Why do the Danes score so highly on international happiness surveys? Well, they do have high levels of trust and social cohesion, and do very nicely from industrial pork products, but according to the OECD they also work fewer hours per year than most of the rest of the world. As a result, productivity is worryingly sluggish. How can they afford all those expensively foraged meals and hand-knitted woollens? Simple, the Danes also have the highest level of private debt in the world (four times as much as the Italians, to put it into context; enough to warrant a warning from the IMF), while more than half of them admit to using the black market to obtain goods and services.

Perhaps the Danes' dirtiest secret is that, according to a 2012 report from the Worldwide Fund for Nature, they have the fourth largest per capita ecological footprint in the world. Even ahead of the US. Those offshore windmills may look impressive as you land at Kastrup, but Denmark burns an awful lot of coal. Worth bearing that in mind the next time a Dane wags her finger at your patio heater.

I'm afraid I have to set you straight on Danish television too. Their big new drama series, Arvingerne (The Legacy, when it comes to BBC4 later this year) is stunning, but the reality of prime-time Danish TV is day-to-day, wall-to-wall reruns of 15-year-old episodes of Midsomer Murders and documentaries on pig welfare. The Danes of course also have highest taxes in the world (though only the sixth-highest wages – hence the debt, I guess). As a spokesperson I interviewed at the Danish centre-right thinktank Cepos put it, they effectively work until Thursday lunchtime for the state's coffers, and the other day and half for themselves.

Presumably the correlative of this is that Denmark has the best public services? According to the OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment rankings (Pisa), Denmark's schools lag behind even the UK's. Its health service is buckling too. (The other day, I turned up at my local A&E to be told that I had to make an appointment, which I can't help feeling rather misunderstands the nature of the service.) According to the World Cancer Research Fund, the Danes have the highest cancer rates on the planet. "But at least the trains run on time!" I hear you say. No, that was Italy under Mussolini. The Danish national rail company has skirted bankruptcy in recent years, and the trains most assuredly do not run on time. Somehow, though, the government still managed to find £2m to fund a two-year tax-scandal investigation largely concerned, as far as I can make out, with the sexual orientation of the prime minister's husband, Stephen Kinnock.

Most seriously of all, economic equality – which many believe is the foundation of societal success – is decreasing. According to a report in Politiken this month, the proportion of people below the poverty line has doubled over the last decade. Denmark is becoming a nation divided, essentially, between the places which have a branch of Sticks'n'Sushi (Copenhagen) and the rest. Denmark's provinces have become a social dumping ground for non-western immigrants, the elderly, the unemployed and the unemployable who live alongside Denmark's 22m intensively farmed pigs, raised 10 to a pen and pumped full of antibiotics (the pigs, that is).

Other awkward truths? There is more than a whiff of the police state about the fact that Danish policeman refuse to display ID numbers and can refuse to give their names. The Danes are aggressively jingoistic, waving their red-and-white dannebrog at the slightest provocation. Like the Swedes, they embraced privatisation with great enthusiasm (even the ambulance service is privatised); and can seem spectacularly unsophisticated in their race relations (cartoon depictions of black people with big lips and bones through their noses are not uncommon in the national press). And if you think a move across the North Sea would help you escape the paedophiles, racists, crooks and tax-dodging corporations one reads about in the British media on a daily basis, I'm afraid I must disabuse you of that too. Got plenty of them.

Plus side? No one talks about cricket.

@al-Hasani any truth there? ^^
NORWAY

The dignity and resolve of the Norwegian people in the wake of the attacks by Anders Behring Breivik in July 2011 was deeply impressive, but in September the rightwing, anti-Islamist Progress party – of which Breivik had been an active member for many years – won 16.3% of the vote in the general election, enough to elevate it into coalition government for the first time in its history. There remains a disturbing Islamophobic sub-subculture in Norway. Ask the Danes, and they will tell you that the Norwegians are the most insular and xenophobic of all the Scandinavians, and it is true that since they came into a bit of money in the 1970s the Norwegians have become increasingly Scrooge-like, hoarding their gold, fearful of outsiders.

Though 2013 saw a record number of asylum applications to Norway, it granted asylum to fewer than half of them (around 5,000 people), a third of the number that less wealthy Sweden admits (Sweden accepted over 9,000 from Syria alone). In his book Petromania, journalist Simon Sætre warns that the powerful oil lobby is "isolating us and making the country asocial". According to him, his countrymen have been corrupted by their oil money, are working less, retiring earlier, and calling in sick more frequently. And while previous governments have controlled the spending of oil revenues, the new bunch are threatening a splurge which many warn could lead to full-blown Dutch disease.

Like the dealer who never touches his own supply, those dirty frackers the Norwegians boast of using only renewable energy sources, all the while amassing the world's largest sovereign wealth fund selling fossil fuels to the rest of us. As Norwegian anthropologist Thomas Hylland Eriksen put it to me when I visited his office in Oslo University: "We've always been used to thinking of ourselves as part of the solution, and with the oil we suddenly became part of the problem. Most people are really in denial."

@Darth Vader any of this true ^^

Iceland
We need not detain ourselves here too long. Only 320,000 – it would appear rather greedy and irresponsible – people cling to this breathtaking, yet borderline uninhabitable rock in the North Atlantic. Further attention will only encourage them.

Finland

Finns … having a quiet drink

I am very fond of the Finns, a most pragmatic, redoubtable people with a Sahara-dry sense of humour. But would I want to live in Finland? In summer, you'll be plagued by mosquitos, in winter, you'll freeze – that's assuming no one shoots you, or you don't shoot yourself. Finland ranks third in global gun ownership behind only America and Yemen; has the highest murder rate in western Europe, double that of the UK; and by far the highest suicide rate in the Nordic countries.

The Finns are epic Friday-night bingers and alcohol is now the leading cause of death for Finnish men. "At some point in the evening around 11.30pm, people start behaving aggressively, throwing punches, wrestling," Heikki Aittokoski, foreign editor of Helsingin Sanomat, told me. "The next day, people laugh about it. In the US, they'd have an intervention."

With its tarnished crown jewel, Nokia, devoured by Microsoft, Finland's hitherto robust economy is more dependent than ever on selling paper – mostly I was told, to Russian **** barons. Luckily, judging by a recent journey I took with my eldest son the length of the country by train, the place appears to be 99% trees. The view was a bit samey.


The nation once dubbed "the west's reigning educational superpower" (the Atlantic) has slipped in the latest Pisa rankings. This follows some unfortunate incidents involving Finnish students – the burning of Porvoo cathedral by an 18-year-old in 2006; the Jokela shootings (another disgruntled 18-year-old) in 2007, and the shooting of 10 more students by a peer in 2008 – which led some to speculate whether Finnish schools were quite as wonderful as their reputation would have us believe.

If you do decide to move there, don't expect scintillating conversation. Finland's is a reactive, listening culture, burdened by taboos too many to mention (civil war, second world war and cold war-related, mostly). They're not big on chat. Look up the word "reticent" in the dictionary and you won't find a picture of an awkward Finn standing in a corner looking at his shoelaces, but you should.

"We would always prefer to be alone," a Finnish woman once admitted to me. She worked for the tourist board.

I was told of the alone nature and the anti depressant pill popping "culture"

Sweden
Anything I say about the Swedes will pale in comparison to their own excoriating self-image. A few years ago, the Swedish Institute of Public Opinion Research asked young Swedes to describe their compatriots. The top eight adjectives they chose were: envious, stiff, industrious, nature loving, quiet, honest, dishonest, xenophobic.

I met with Åke Daun, Sweden's most venerable ethnologist. "Swedes seem not to 'feel as strongly' as certain other people", Daun writes in his excellent book, Swedish Mentality. "Swedish women try to moan as little as possible during childbirth and they often ask, when it is all over, whether they screamed very much. They are very pleased to be told they did not." Apparently, crying at funerals is frowned upon and "remembered long afterwards". The Swedes are, he says, "highly adept at insulating themselves from each other". They will do anything to avoid sharing a lift with a stranger, as I found out during a day-long experiment behaving as un-Swedishly as possible in Stockholm.

Effectively a one-party state – albeit supported by a couple of shadowy industrialist families – for much of the 20th century, "neutral" Sweden (one of the world largest arms exporters) continues to thrive economically thanks to its distinctive brand of totalitarian modernism, which curbs freedoms, suppresses dissent in the name of consensus, and seems hell-bent on severing the bonds between wife and husband, children and parents, and elderly on their children. Think of it as the China of the north.

Youth unemployment is higher than the UK's and higher than the EU average; integration is an ongoing challenge; and as with Norway and Denmark, the Swedish right is on the rise. A spokesman for the Sweden Democrats (currently at an all-time high of close to 10% in the polls) insisted to me that immigrants were "more prone to violence". I pointed out that Sweden was one of the most bloodthirsty nations on earth for much of the last millennium. I was told we'd run out of time.

Ask the Finns and they will tell you that Swedish ultra-feminism has emasculated their men, but they will struggle to drown their sorrows. Their state-run alcohol monopoly stores, the dreaded Systembolaget, were described by Susan Sontag as "part funeral parlour, part back-room abortionist".

The myriad successes of the Nordic countries are no miracle, they were born of a combination of Lutheran modesty, peasant parsimony, geographical determinism and ruthless pragmatism ("The Russians are attacking? Join the Nazis! The Nazis are losing? Join the Allies!"). These societies function well for those who conform to the collective median, but they aren't much fun for tall poppies. Schools rein in higher achievers for the sake of the less gifted; "elite" is a dirty word; displays of success, ambition or wealth are frowned upon. If you can cope with this, and the cost, and the cold (both metaphorical and inter-personal), then by all means join me in my adopted hyggelige home. I've rustled up a sorrel salad and there's some expensive, weak beer in the fridge. Pull up an Egg. I hear Taggart's on again!

Dark lands: the grim truth behind the 'Scandinavian miracle' | World news | The Guardian

I seriously felt different when I met with the few Swedees I know!

Did this author just vent out frustration towards other more successful nations or is anything worth in weight?

 

[Darth Vader]

@Talon Norwegian Centre Against Racism - "Tea Time" - Dinamo Reklamebyraa : AdForum.com
This is how they stopped rasicm against islam In Norway I been To many countries
But One of the most help full polite an people i have met are in Norway, Every one treats me just like other Random guy
Yes every Society have some Nut Jobs but as i say we cant judge a whole community by just few people
He talked about asylum Well Every Country can learn from their mistakes E.g Somalia nd afghan
Why should Norway let every other person to stay here while every other country is deporting immigrants Norway should enter more what will happen it will effect the economy and It will effects Jobs
He said before 1970 Norway was a poor country and people are changed yes it was but now its people have worked their *** of to put where Norway stands now Right on top. the have worked very hard to achieve where they stand today and they have every right to use their money as they like instead of wasting or throwing
In the end its All Just B.S

 

[al-Hasani]

Sorry for the late reply, dear @Talon

Some of what was written about Denmark were mere facts (the economical parts) while some of the other information was exaggerated for the sake of it. Overall Denmark is a really good and pleasant country to live/study/work in and among the most secure, wealthy and happy countries. It is a fairly open country as well. You never hear about any race riots or race motivated murders. It could be much, much worse.

Copenhagen is the only place I really know in Denmark since this is where I am only in (nearly) and the nearby surroundings (coastline, islands, forests, lakes, countryside) and I quite like it but in terms of nature then the "real Scandinavia" (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland) is more beautiful. But then again they have much worse weather in general and not as beautiful beaches or cities if you ask me.

Denmark is actually much more close to neighboring Northern Germany in many more ways than it is close to Scandinavia. Only the somewhat similar mentality, culture and languages ties it more together with Scandinavia than neighboring Northern Germany.

If you look at landscapes, climate, cuisine, history etc. then Denmark is closer to Northern Germany than the other Scandinavian countries. Only southern Sweden is close to Denmark.

Historically speaking Denmark and Sweden were the dominant forces in Scandinavia culturally and militarily and they both ruled Norway for a long time (especially Denmark) and fought many wars with each other.

In terms of languages then Danish and Norwegian are the two closest in my opinion although both Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are very close. Some would call them dialects of the same language even. Icelandic is very different while Finnish is a TOTALLY different language and not even a Germanic or Indo-European language.

For instance many Swedes go to Denmark for work/studies etc. because the pay is bigger but it is more expensive than in Sweden. Then you have Danes going to Norway because the pay is bigger in Norway but at the other hand it is more expensive in Norway. I don't know anything about Iceland or Finland and I am yet to visit those two countries but for me they are too far away from the remaining Europe and isolated countries.

EDIT: The pig farms are mostly based in Jutland which is quite far from Copenhagen (I have only been there 2 times) and they are all kept indoors mostly at large farms on the countryside far away from the cities. Denmark has a lot of agricultural lands and historically it relied on agriculture, fishery etc.

It is a more knowledge based country than a industrial one. Denmark is leading in many scientific disciplines considering its size. Well, the country has oil too but apparently I have heard that the Danish prime minister who stroke the deal with his Norwegian counterpart was drunk when they agreed to the exact borders of the North Sea oil. This meant that Denmark lost most of the oil that then went to Norway.

The same Norway which was Danish for 300 years (1524-1814) 200 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark–Norway

Iceland was also under Danish rule for centuries (from 1524) until 1944 when it became independent.

Kingdom of Iceland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Greenland and the Faros Islands are still part of Denmark officially but they have their own government and self-rule to a certain extent.

They are part of the Danish Realm.

Danish Realm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Likewise the 3 southernmost Swedish provinces of Scania, Halland and Blekinge were Danish for many years.

 

[Dubious]

@Talon Norwegian Centre Against Racism - "Tea Time" - Dinamo Reklamebyraa : AdForum.com
This is how they stopped rasicm against islam In Norway I been To many countries
But One of the most help full polite an people i have met are in Norway, Every one treats me just like other Random guy
Yes every Society have some Nut Jobs but as i say we cant judge a whole community by just few people
He talked about asylum Well Every Country can learn from their mistakes E.g Somalia nd afghan
Why should Norway let every other person to stay here while every other country is deporting immigrants Norway should enter more what will happen it will effect the economy and It will effects Jobs
He said before 1970 Norway was a poor country and people are changed yes it was but now its people have worked their *** of to put where Norway stands now Right on top. the have worked very hard to achieve where they stand today and they have every right to use their money as they like instead of wasting or throwing
In the end its All Just B.S

Thank you for your insight! I think almost every country in EU has such a center...I remember when I first came to EU (cant disclose the country) I was given a crash course on what to do if I was treated with a racist remark and whom to approach, hotlines and how to report it....

Like I put in the post, to me it sounded like unhappy ranting....My country is sucky lets make sure people see other countries in a similar way! Or damage the image of other countries so they land in par with his own country! Every country has its bads but I dont think anyone should write such detailed nonesense! Sadly it was published in thegaurdian.com which has a huge number of readers!

 

[Dubious]

@Darth Vader @al-Hasani

we got a reply:

Not so dark lands: When inaccuracies meet sensationalism

Recent Guardian piece on Denmark and the other Nordic countries created a stir, but was it accurate?

A few days ago, Michael Booth published an article in The Guardian called ‘Dark lands: the grim truth behind the 'Scandinavian miracle'’. The piece has many qualities: it is thought provoking and entertaining. It is also refreshing to completely rediscover a country you are living in. But a lot of the points Booth made about Denmark are unfortunately false or misleading.

Of course, things are far from perfect in Scandinavia in general and Denmark in particular. Booth is right that racism may be rampant (but where it is not, even in multicultural countries like the UK or France?), that the TV sucks (but honestly is British, French, American or Canadian TV always thrilling to intellectually stimulating?) and that the level of personal debt should be a source of public concern since it is the highest among OECD countries (even if one may argue that there are different kinds of household debts: those used for consumption and those used for investment).

These points are right and definitely it is good to remind readers that reality is never one-sided: Scandinavia is not the new Eden. Nevertheless, the article constantly misrepresents the situation of Denmark, which may puzzle the reader about the general intention of the author. Booth seems to over-state his point, and by doing so he is undermining the promotion of his book, which presumably is the purpose of this piece.

The piece contains gross errors or misrepresentations. For instance, Booth claims that because Danes work fewer hours per year than the rest of the world, their productivity is low. Two dimensions are conflated here: work hours and individual productivity. It is not because people work fewer hours that they are less productive. History shows the opposite: people have been working fewer hours because they have been more productive per worked hour. This is a solid fact for all industrialised nations since the 19th century.

According to the OECD, Danes work less hours than those in the United Kingdom, but more than in Germany or the Netherlands. But a closer look shows that the productivity per worked hour is higher in Denmark than in UK, Germany or Canada. So Danes work less hours than Brits while being more productive.

Booth affirms that Denmark is the first oil exporter of the European Union. He is right … if we exclude the Netherlands, the UK, Italy, France, Germany and Belgium from the list.

Denmark would also have the highest tax rates in the world. The concept of higher tax rates is known by economists to be tricky to calculate. Do we consider corporate tax, individual tax, payroll tax or VAT? In all these cases, Denmark does not have the highest maximum rates. Maybe it is the volume of taxes paid, but in this case again the data is not that clear. Sweden appears to have higher tax rates.

For proving the misuse of public money, Booth points at the high cancer rates. The problem is that high cancer rates tell you more about lifestyles than healthcare. It’s right that Danish lifestyle contains unhealthy aspects (heavy smoking, heavy drinking), but it has nothing to do with the state and there is nothing specific about Denmark. But let’s take the problem seriously: maybe it could justify more intrusion of the Danish state within private lives. Why not ban smoking in all public spaces or increase the price of tobacco via more taxes? It is not clear if Booth would be up for that.

In that context, how to understand the point about declining equality? For anyone who worries about the high level of taxation, it should be something to celebrate rather than to deplore. Yes, equality is declining in Denmark, as well as in most industrialised countries since the 1970’s. On this ground, the UK and the US present impressive performance that studies have been shown as resulting from the reduction of tax rates.

Without going through the data for the other Scandinavian countries or engaging all the other disputable/false points about Denmark, the question is still begging: why present Denmark under such a non-charitable light, especially after having personally contributed to the popularity of Scandinavia as Booth, by his own confession, has done?

There could be various reasons. Two are more or less plausible. Firstly, there is always a good reason for creating buzz, especially for commercial purposes. And there is a book to sell. There is nothing wrong with that, just business as usual. But one may wonder if the strategy – overshooting the target – is the right one.

Secondly, it reminds me when Metallica issued the so-called ‘Black Album’. My friends and I, who were following Metallica’s early work, were horrified by the release of this album, not so much because of the music but because it sold too much. The fact that Metallica quickly gained a huge notoriety among un-expert people changed our status as fans from being the cool guys listening to confidential and brutal music to becoming mainstream. The same dynamic is at work here: a shift in status, from belonging to a small circle of Scandinavia connoisseurs to being just one in the middle of an anonymous crowd.

The problem is that the strategy at work in the article is self-defeating. The good points are drowned in false and misinterpreted facts that may diminish the credibility of the book that the article aims at promoting, which is a shame because Booth probably has many interesting thoughts to share about Scandinavia.

Not so dark lands: When inaccuracies meet sensationalism - News - The Copenhagen Post

However, this article looked funny to me esp when the author crossed:

According to the OECD, Danes work less hours than those in the United Kingdom, but more than in Germany or the Netherlands. But a closer look shows that the productivity per worked hour is higher in Denmark than in UK, Germany or Canada. So Danes work less hours than Brits while being more productive.

How is UK working more hrs than Germany? Uk def doesnt work more hrs...I have been to both countries but this one really took me by surprise!

Sorry for the late reply, dear @Talon

Some of what was written about Denmark were mere facts (the economical parts) while some of the other information was exaggerated for the sake of it. Overall Denmark is a really good and pleasant country to live/study/work in and among the most secure, wealthy and happy countries. It is a fairly open country as well. You never hear about any race riots or race motivated murders. It could be much, much worse.

Copenhagen is the only place I really know in Denmark since this is where I am only in (nearly) and the nearby surroundings (coastline, islands, forests, lakes, countryside) and I quite like it but in terms of nature then the "real Scandinavia" (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland) is more beautiful. But then again they have much worse weather in general and not as beautiful beaches or cities if you ask me.

Denmark is actually much more close to neighboring Northern Germany in many more ways than it is close to Scandinavia. Only the somewhat similar mentality, culture and languages ties it more together with Scandinavia than neighboring Northern Germany.

If you look at landscapes, climate, cuisine, history etc. then Denmark is closer to Northern Germany than the other Scandinavian countries. Only southern Sweden is close to Denmark.

Historically speaking Denmark and Sweden were the dominant forces in Scandinavia culturally and militarily and they both ruled Norway for a long time (especially Denmark) and fought many wars with each other.

In terms of languages then Danish and Norwegian are the two closest in my opinion although both Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are very close. Some would call them dialects of the same language even. Icelandic is very different while Finnish is a TOTALLY different language and not even a Germanic or Indo-European language.

For instance many Swedes go to Denmark for work/studies etc. because the pay is bigger but it is more expensive than in Sweden. Then you have Danes going to Norway because the pay is bigger in Norway but at the other hand it is more expensive in Norway. I don't know anything about Iceland or Finland and I am yet to visit those two countries but for me they are too far away from the remaining Europe and isolated countries.

EDIT: The pig farms are mostly based in Jutland which is quite far from Copenhagen (I have only been there 2 times) and they are all kept indoors mostly at large farms on the countryside far away from the cities. Denmark has a lot of agricultural lands and historically it relied on agriculture, fishery etc.

It is a more knowledge based country than a industrial one. Denmark is leading in many scientific disciplines considering its size. Well, the country has oil too but apparently I have heard that the Danish prime minister who stroke the deal with his Norwegian counterpart was drunk when they agreed to the exact borders of the North Sea oil. This meant that Denmark lost most of the oil that then went to Norway.

The same Norway which was Danish for 300 years (1524-1814) 200 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark–Norway

Iceland was also under Danish rule for centuries (from 1524) until 1944 when it became independent.

Kingdom of Iceland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Greenland and the Faros Islands are still part of Denmark officially but they have their own government and self-rule to a certain extent.

They are part of the Danish Realm.

Danish Realm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Likewise the 3 southernmost Swedish provinces of Scania, Halland and Blekinge were Danish for many years.

Thank you! Like I had said under that article it didnt seem right hence I mentioned you!

 

[Darth Vader]

@Talon i have personally met Prince Haakon so down to earth polite person you will ever see
The article talks Crap Been To Denmark have some problems but which country doesnt Every country have some problems its job of the country to men to solve their problems