Dancing in presence of PM Gillani

[Awesome]

Sure public opinion is a factor - however; the thread was been presented as national disgrace with call sfor his ouster and of course the islamist 5th column chose to add it's own unique take on events.

Dance is part of Pakistani culture, now I realize it's not Saudi culture, though Saudi will dispute this, cuz they are some dancing fools among themselves - but the hysterical reaction to the dance is a bit over the top, in my opinion.

Sooner or later we will grow up and not find in a dance the kinds of consequences we do now - but every joujrney begins with the t first step, eh?

Personally, I feel its the context of dancing that should be considered. There's stage show dancing, which has a theme presented for an event, slow dancing between couples (nothing unislamic in some slow moves with the wife right?), then there's mujra.

This clearly was a cultural 'staged' show. The PM knew it would be construed as the mujra as the gentleman has with his declaration of disgrace. This is the fate of the performing arts in Pakistan. I had the good fortune to speak with Faraz Anwar of the band Mizraab, probably one of the best guitarists around the world , and he said that "Main jitnay bhi awards jeetloon, humari qaum k liay main maraasi hi rahoonga". Really sad.

Dance, music, and all other performing arts are part of the evolving Pakistani culture. What would my generation know about Music say without Junoon? The problem I think people have is that there was a chick dancing which was a decent thing to look at.

The Mullah mentality would always have issues with music. In another conversation with Junoon's Salman Ahmed, he explained it in probably the best way. He said, you can compare a Mullah's waz with my song Allah Hu. A Mullah attracts in one standing a few hundred people and he can get a crowd of at least 10,000. "The Mullah has basically lost his gig".

It's all politics if you ask me. If you go through the Quran, there is a not a single Ayah condemning Music. We learn about these things being bad from the Hadiths which are recorded by Man. Mind control. In Islams battle to remain unchanged, its has solidly changed it by allowing these zombifying Mullahs as the authoritative body on religious affairs.

 

[A1Kaid]

Personally, I feel its the context of dancing that should be considered. There's stage show dancing, which has a theme presented for an event, slow dancing between couples (nothing unislamic in some slow moves with the wife right?), then there's mujra.

This clearly was a cultural 'staged' show. The PM knew it would be construed as the mujra as the gentleman has with his declaration of disgrace. This is the fate of the performing arts in Pakistan. I had the good fortune to speak with Faraz Anwar of the band Mizraab, probably one of the best guitarists around the world , and he said that "Main jitnay bhi awards jeetloon, humari qaum k liay main maraasi hi rahoonga". Really sad.

Dance, music, and all other performing arts are part of the evolving Pakistani culture. What would my generation know about Music say without Junoon? The problem I think people have is that there was a chick dancing which was a decent thing to look at.

The Mullah mentality would always have issues with music. In another conversation with Junoon's Salman Ahmed, he explained it in probably the best way. He said, you can compare a Mullah's waz with my song Allah Hu. A Mullah attracts in one standing a few hundred people and he can get a crowd of at least 10,000. "The Mullah has basically lost his gig".

It's all politics if you ask me. If you go through the Quran, there is a not a single Ayah condemning Music. We learn about these things being bad from the Hadiths which are recorded by Man. Mind control. In Islams battle to remain unchanged, its has solidly changed it by allowing these zombifying Mullahs as the authoritative body on religious affairs.

"He said, you can compare a Mullah's waz with my song Allah Hu. A Mullah attracts in one standing a few hundred people and he can get a crowd of at least 10,000. "The Mullah has basically lost his gig"."

Okay I just want to comment on this point you made. It is quite silly to suggest "The Mullah has basically lost his gig." A Mullah's/Imam's at least a noble one his job is not simply to try and gather the largest crowd, it is to provide religious knowledge and guidance of the Quran, these pop singers cannot do that as many of them are ignorant to the knowledge in the Quran and ignorant to Islamic jurisprudence, all they normally do is offer their opinion (the pop singers).

The guitarist you talk to think the Mullah's or Imam's are condemning them because it is all "politics", really how many of the Mullah's/Imam's condemning them are running for election and political office? (rhetorical) The truth is it is about what the mainstream Pakistani people would consider is "family values" in accordance with Islam and to some extent culture.

Hope I've made my point clear.


"Mind control."-Asim Aquil

And what do you think singers, musicians, artist, painters, and people in the media are doing, it is they who are engaged in mind control, at the bequest of their corporate masters who also happen to be Jewish and Zionist corporate elites and other people.

It is they who are brainwashing the youth in many cases to be rebellious against values, morals, traditions, religion. It is they who have popularized dressing slutty for young girls. It is they who have encouraged promiscuity and lust. Britney Spears, Madonna ( esp. Papa don't preach), and countless and countless of other "artist" have been doing brainwashing on a scale that has never been seen before, and it's done through television-movies, music, and more.


The guitarist you talk to is the last person I would seek advice from on guidance on truth and life, he should stick to plucking strings on his guitar. I hope I have made myself clear..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I beg to disagree with this post, I really wonder why such an irrelevent and nonissue is being hyped up.

honestly look at the type of probems we got
chronic power shortages
lawlessness
terrorism
external threats
crippling economy and unemployment
lack of national concensus on major issues

worrying about a dance is the last thing we should be doing.

please defer it until we have taken out Baithullah Mehsood and Mullah Fazlulla, Nato forces have left Afghanistan, there is peace and stability in Afghanistan.
Kala Bagh and Bhasha dams are constructed and the economy is back on track and finally India and Pakistan are finalising the peaceful resolution of Kashmiri dispute.

until then please have some pitty on the country and spare few moments of yoour time and pray for the safety of the people of Pakistan and victory of our brave soldiers on the front line


many thanks

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[qsaark]

If you go through the Quran, there is a not a single Ayah condemning Music. We learn about these things being bad from the Hadiths which are recorded by Man.

Surah Luqman verse 6.

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e.music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, the Verses of the Qur'ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire).

For more details please read Tafseer Ibn e Kathir here Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[DarkStar]

Surah Luqman verse 6.

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e.music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, the Verses of the Qur'ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire).

For more details please read Tafseer Ibn e Kathir here Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

qsark bhai, this ayah is not explicitly about singing and music, however it has been interpreted as such.

Some have used this ayah to declare even poetry to be Haram, however, that is not the case.

The hurmah of music is not established from a nass, it is a matter of ijtihad. Which is why there is a difference of opinion regarding this amongst the scholars, although the majority of them have tended towards its forbidance.

The Ayah stipulates that all lewd speech is forbidden, that which distracts us from what is good, whether that is in the form of music, singing, poetry, idle talk or movies and flims.

It's like any other medium, it can have good and bad uses. The TV that displays nude scenes and vulgarity, also displays the lectures of scholars, the images of Hajj.

It is the way the medium is used whcih is important.

 

[paritosh]

so in the end it is all about your interpretation of your religion and your books...
your mind is the greatest prophet you'd ever know(no disrespect to anyone)

 

[DarkStar]

so in the end it is all about your interpretation of your religion and your books...
your mind is the greatest prophet you'd ever know(no disrespect to anyone)

This from a person that comes from a country whose minds tell them to worship anything that is either erect, moving, stationary, dead or alive (no disrespect to anyone).

 

[ARSENAL6]

Darkstar...your forefathers used to worship what we worship today....their forefathers used to worship the eagle...and their forefathers were probably cannibals.I know that you'd see that it is not a personal comment...but the point is that....no one can be sure what they worship is actually what they should.Unlike 'you' I'd dare not speak for the almost 1 billion hindus world over...but I personally would not believe what some guy in the dark ages wrote about his understanding of the world and the universe.It's not about hindus turning all knowledgeable and non-religious in this forum...but you talking to people who consider hinuism more of a 'faith' than a doctrine that has to be globally imposed.

GUESS WHAT BEFORE ANYTHING YOUR forfathers worshiped Allah !
Remember Adam and Eve !

 

[qsaark]

so in the end it is all about your interpretation of your religion and your books...
your mind is the greatest prophet you'd ever know(no disrespect to anyone)

Allow me to explain it to you.

As you might know, all great religions have sects and sub-sects in them, and Islam is no exception. Islam has two large sects, that are Shia sect and Sunni sect. Both the sects are further divided into sub-sects. I can not tell much about Shia sect since I do not belong to this. Sunni sect has four sub-sects that are basically four school of thoughts or jurisprudence following these Imams: Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi'i, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. The things that are common among the four Imams are Aitiqad (beliefs), while there are differences in the interpretation of some trivial issues of Shariat. For instance there is no difference among four Imams that Salat (namz) is mandatory or farz. However, they differ in how the salat should be performed. Another example is the hurmat (allowance) of certain animals. All four Imams unanimously agree that pork is haram but differ in the opinion on animals such as Goorkhar (kind of a wild donkey), amphibians, marine animals etc.

These differences appeared mainly because of the failure on reaching to ijtihad (consensus) on certain issues, and there are reasons. One of the important reasons is, not all of the Imams were present in the same time or at the same place. Imam Abu Hanifa was present in 699-765, Imam Malik was around in 711-795, Imam Shafi'i lived in 760-820, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal’s time was 780-855. Another reason is, during the early times (when these Imams lived) not all ahadiths (saying of Mohammed PBUH) were collected in form of a book and were largely scattered. The work of collecting of Hadith is done later by Imam Bukhari for instance in 810-870 and others. In order to reach to consensus (ijtihad), the scholars depend both on Quran and if things are not mentioned clearly (such as how to say your prayers), seek guidance from Hadith. If the answer is not present in both, or the answer is vague, than Ulema discuss the matter with each other in the light of their understanding of Quranic verses and related Hadiths, and try to come to a conclusion.

Things have changed over the period of time, mainly because they have reached to us from some source and to that source from another. Whether music was listened and dances were watched by the Muslims of the time of Prophet is anybody’s guess. However, from the available knowledge, the scripts written by the scholars, based on the understanding of Quranic verses and related Hadiths, it is not proven. There is ample material suggesting that singing, instrument playing and dances are not allowed in Islam and this is something common among all the Sunni as well as Shia sects.

Now Sitara-e-Aswad (DarkStar) has his understanding of the mentioned ayat, and I believe he has read literature that supports his understanding. This is not disturbing for me, as these differences are not un-common and one thing that separates us from the religious extremists is that we don’t fight over these differences. This is not even a matter of Aitiqad or belief, and a person who watches dances, or listen to the music or plays instruments is still a Muslims albeit a non-practicing one.

 

[DarkStar]

The knowledge that is necessary, the knowledge that is protected by the promise of God that he will preserve his zikr (Quran and Sunnah), has not changed, although it is a matter of seeking such knowledge.

Wherever human intellect and endeavour is found, mistakes can arrise.

Atiullah Wa AituRasul Wauluamru Minkum. Wa in tanazatum fi shai in fa rudduhu ilAllahi warr Rasuli...in kuntum tu minuna BiLlahi wal yaumil Akhiri.

 

[brilTek]

qsaark:

Excellent post above. Just want to THANK YOU for that.

 

[Rajkumar]

one question:
does newer generation knows about this. probably they have read quran and sunnah but it seems like lot of religious history and books are there.
those who don't go to madrassah may be lacking this knowledge, isn't it?

 

[shravan]

This from a person that comes from a country whose minds tell them to worship anything that is either erect, moving, stationary, dead or alive (no disrespect to anyone).

What is God ? Seems like you know the answer.

 

[duhastmish]

This from a person that comes from a country whose minds tell them to worship anything that is either erect, moving, stationary, dead or alive (no disrespect to anyone).

And what wrong with that ???? do you have a reason or just said this - because u felt like hearing a few curse from them ?

god is formless , you can pray him in any shape or order. That's why there is nothing in kabba. I think in hinduism its not iconic aspect of idols but the symbolic aspect of them. why people pray them. so its not abotu form either.

Islam is bound to have way more loop holes because of its extremist interpretations.and mulla islam. so dont start this war of religion here. My islam is very much like buddist hindu taoist or christian. its all about humanity and acceptability. I respect islam and know Islam and follow although i dont go for namaz.

so dont say i am hindu so i am uttering bullshyt.

You are my one of fav mod here like neo. Its kind of strange to hear such coming out of you. because you know it gets dirty and people end up abusing religions. which is insane. and banning or deleting post doesnt help too.

 

[Awesome]

Surah Luqman verse 6.

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e.music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, the Verses of the Qur'ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire).

For more details please read Tafseer Ibn e Kathir here Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

This is what pisses me off: (i.e.music, singing, etc.). This is not in the quran, but translators add this, everything in parenthesis is added. This is actually quite an undoing of the Islamic way of life. The Quran should not be toyed with in this way.