Dalit girl's limbs chopped off for resisting rape in UP, India

[CardSharp]

for centuries, actually. Sadly, I am not very hopeful on this front.

Sorry I meant write more but I got distracted, lol. Needless to say I am not a fan of the Indian governments approach. They should have just done away with it and made it illegal to know what the person's caste is, and hope that this classification will be forgotten eventually.

 

[no_name]

^^^Might be quite hard comes election time.
And pardon my ignorance by are dalits allowed to vote?

 

[true_indian]

Sorry I meant write more but I got distracted, lol. Needless to say I am not a fan of the Indian governments approach. They should have just done away with it and made it illegal to know what the person's caste is, and hope that this classification will be forgotten eventually.

It was identified for a good cause. To provide them with opportunities in both education and jobs so they could join the main stream. But over the years it was abundantly clear that it doesn't work and people are even more alienated or segregated because of this. Initially the whole caste reservations were meant for 50 years after independence. It got extended for I think another 50 years. It is a direct resultant of vote bank politics. Anyone who comes up with abolishing caste reservation would loose out on Power. No one is willing to take that risk.

Now a days there is a new proposition, giving reservations to economically backward people instead of caste based. I think its a better idea and hopefully GOI would take certain action towards it. But with this policy you would see another 100 million Indians claiming to be poor to avail this policy. This is what is going on for years. Every time GOI comes up with a policy to provide for poor somehow the number of poor in the country shoots up. GOI claims it doesn't know why?

 

[CardSharp]

Sorry I meant write more but I got distracted, lol. Needless to say I am not a fan of the Indian governments approach. They should have just done away with it and made it illegal to know what the person's caste is, and hope that this classification will be forgotten eventually.

Of course they are, but that's precisely the problem. The castes have been politicized and now politicians are dead afraid to do away with backward caste benefits. They'd get crucified at the ballots.

 

[CardSharp]

It was identified for a good cause. To provide them with opportunities in both education and jobs so they could join the main stream. But over the years it was abundantly clear that it doesn't work and people are even more alienated or segregated because of this. Initially the whole caste reservations were meant for 50 years after independence. It got extended for I think another 50 years. It is a direct resultant of vote bank politics. Anyone who comes up with abolishing caste reservation would loose out on Power. No one is willing to take that risk.

Now a days there is a new proposition, giving reservations to economically backward people instead of caste based. I think its a better idea and hopefully GOI would take certain action towards it. But with this policy you would see another 100 million Indians claiming to be poor to avail this policy. This is what is going on for years. Every time GOI comes up with a policy to provide for poor somehow the number of poor in the country shoots up. GOI claims it doesn't know why?

If they can't catch up in 50 years, a 50 year extension is not going to be the solution. An extension can only be seen now as a naked grab for economic advantage using political capital, akin to pork barrel politics in the states.

 

[true_indian]

Double posts for some reason, seem pdf forum is a bit slow now.

Also do dalits have IDs and stuff like that.

Yes they do have ID's, they are called ration cards. But at least a quarter to half of them who claims to be dalits are not actually dalits. Some of them are well off dalits.

 

[true_indian]

If they can't catch up in 50 years, a 50 year extension is not going to be the solution. An extension can only be seen now as a naked grab for economic advantage using political capital, akin to pork barrel politics in the states.

If only every Indian in India is as smart as you are.

 

[CardSharp]

If only every Indian in India is as smart as you are.

Thanks but it's not a question of smart. It's question of balancing people's greed for the greater good. I have little doubt that many dalits could have rising in society by their own ingenuity and effort if not for the self-defeating trap of affirmative action. To them it's a double edge sword, on one hand they may still face social discrimination as dalits, on the other they want to continue to receive governmental benefits as "backward classes".

Short term greed, longterm damage. It's perfectly human to be honest.

 

[true_indian]

Thanks but it's not a question of smart. It's question of balancing people's greed for the greater good. I have little doubt that many dalits could have rising in society by their own ingenuity and effort if not for the self-defeating trap of affirmative action. To them it's a double edge sword, on one hand they may still face social discrimination as dalits, on the other they want to continue to receive governmental benefits as "backward classes".

Short term greed, longterm damage. It's perfectly human to be honest.

But the thing is 70% of the population is benefiting from caste based reservation.

Caste Categories % of population

Scheduled Castes(Dalits) 15%

Scheduled Tribes (Tribals) 7%

Other Backward Classes 52% (Mandal Commission) or 32% (National Sample survey)

-----------------------------------------------

Total 74% or 54%

There are even more reservations for other minorities within the country like for Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.


What can anyone do if majority of population is bent on taking short term economic advantage against longterm economic development of the country. Ain't that sad. This shows lack of vision with in our society.

 

[CardSharp]

But the thing is 70% of the population is benefiting from caste based reservation.

Caste Categories % of population

Scheduled Castes(Dalits) 15%

Scheduled Tribes (Tribals) 7%

Other Backward Classes 52% (Mandal Commission) or 32% (National Sample survey)

-----------------------------------------------

Total 74% or 54%

There are even more reservations for other minorities within the country like for Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.


What can anyone do if majority of population is bent on taking short term economic advantage against longterm economic development of the country. Ain't that sad. This shows lack of vision with in our society.

It's the price you pay for democracy. There are natural shortcomings of any political system, long term planning and managing short term greed is not a democracy's strong suit.

 

[true_indian]

It's the price you pay for democracy. There are natural shortcomings of any political system, long term planning and managing short term greed is not a democracy's strong suit.

I agree with you. But the good thing about democracy is that you just need one good leader to turn all this around. He might need to take some tough decisions initially but once people see the development they'll just ask for more. And more importantly they demand similar development from following governments. This would lead to further development without compromising our freedom.

I am just waiting for that one good leader to come around.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I agree with you. But the good thing about democracy is that you just need one good leader to turn all this around. He might need to take some tough decisions initially but once people see the development they'll just follow suit. And more importantly they demand similar development from following governments. This would lead to further development without compromising our freedom.

I am just waiting for that one good leader to come around.

I hope you're a patient person

 

[CardSharp]

I agree with you. But the good thing about democracy is that you just need one good leader to turn all this around. He might need to take some tough decisions initially but once people see the development they'll just ask for more. And more importantly they demand similar development from following governments. This would lead to further development without compromising our freedom.

I am just waiting for that one good leader to come around.

With the Gandhi-Nehru dynasty around and the Congress as their political instrument, it is going to be hard for a charismatic leader to emerge.

 

[jayron]

Thanks but it's not a question of smart. It's question of balancing people's greed for the greater good. I have little doubt that many dalits could have rising in society by their own ingenuity and effort if not for the self-defeating trap of affirmative action. To them it's a double edge sword, on one hand they may still face social discrimination as dalits, on the other they want to continue to receive governmental benefits as "backward classes".

Short term greed, longterm damage. It's perfectly human to be honest.

Hi Cardsharp! Non Indians often think the Indian government is keeping the caste system alive by having reservations. That is not the case. These people were oppressed for thousands of years. So there has to be a means of equalizing the society before abolishing the caste system. These people have to be empovered so that they do not face discrimination. The government cannot wish away the caste system . Economic and social status of these people has to be improved for this inhuman practice to die. The reservations certainly help some of the most downtrodden people like the Dalits. The challenge is to make those people aware of the reservations and encourage them to use it.

 

[CardSharp]

Hi Cardsharp! Non Indians often think the Indian government is keeping the caste system alive by having reservations. That is not the case. These people were oppressed for thousands of years. So there has to be a means of equalizing the society before abolishing the caste system. These people have to be empovered so that they do not face discrimination. The government cannot wish away the caste system . Economic and social status of these people has to be improved for this inhuman practice to die. The reservations certainly help some of the most downtrodden people like the Dalits. The challenge is to make those people aware of the reservations and encourage them to use it.

I agree they had very noble intentions but good intentions do not always beget good results.