Dalai Lama in ‘informal’ talks to return to Tibet

[tranquilium]

that's the official propaganda line fed to the chinese people. we here in the west were shown a different picture. people happy with their religion in tibet for thousands of years. you forced them to conform to chinese ideals rather than their own. with rampant oppression and the destruction of nearly all monestaries in tibet. bad bad china. give the hongkongese protesters what they want, give the tibetans back their monestaries and their religion, and then china's leaders can have my respect.

'We dont care about your respect' - no you care only for your own egos and paycheck levels, that's your problem. greed of political power and luxury wealth. so much for the respectability of the chinese leadership, if there ever was one after they started on marxism.


oppress the tibetans, hong kong-ese, or the taiwanese any further than you're trying today, and you're gonna have issues with me. i'm not afraid of any china man or woman. nor impressed by their military skills.

Yeah, Tibetans are "happy". With 99% of Tibetan's life is literally worth a straw rope to the clergies. Hint, old Tibetan laws states when a member of the clergy kills a common Tibetan, which is 99% of the population. If the clergy is found at fault, then he has to pay the total concession of....one straw rope.
Illustrated White Paper on Democratic Reform in Tibet-Rigid hierarchy in Old Tibet
Guess they don't talk about these a lot "in the west" eh? Here is a another hint, you would never see a credible historical institute in the west claiming Tibetans were happy under Dalai Lama's rule. The new media can claim anything they want because they do not have an academic reputation to consider or preserve.

Considering your "respect" meaning jeopardizing the life of millions of Tibetans, I would say it is not worth it at all.

 

[PeaceGen]

Yeah, Tibetans are "happy". With 99% of Tibetan's life is literally worth a straw rope to the clergies. Hint, old Tibetan laws states when a member of the clergy kills a common Tibetan, which is 99% of the population. If the clergy is found at fault, then he has to pay the total concession of....one straw rope.
Illustrated White Paper on Democratic Reform in Tibet-Rigid hierarchy in Old Tibet
Guess they don't talk about these a lot "in the west" eh? Here is a another hint, you would never see a credible historical institute in the west claiming Tibetans were happy under Dalai Lama's rule. The new media can claim anything they want because they do not have an academic reputation to consider or preserve.

Considering your "respect" meaning jeopardizing the life of millions of Tibetans, I would say it is not worth it at all.

that's brainwashed nonsense you're talking about here. severely exaggerated facts generalized to the entire country of tibet and it's long history. doesn't fly.

mods, as promised i've brought my password file and will now continue under this main account of mine on this forum..
thank you for your cooperation in letting me make these bold statements (warnings of policital activism countermeasures) while operating under a secondary account for a few days. the password files have been copied to this laptop.

to acknowledge that the tibetan system of government had it's flaws (which have been fixed now i believe), yes, indeed that too was made shown to me by my western sources about tibet.

every system of government has to protect itself and those majority of citizens who agree with their rule, from those nutters in any age of mankind who seek to take over power.

that's where those straw-rope laws come from, that's where chinese crackdowns on civilian unrest come from. that's why the occupy movement and in fact any street demonstrations anywhere don't get the job done anymore. governments have evolved beyond these measures of resistance against *their* unreasonable behavior.

these days, battles are won or lost based on what is said by whom on the internet.

the airplane was decisive, after that came the mass media as deciding factor, now the internet forums have taken over that role. i'm willing to explain why and how.. i like hong kong movies

 

[PeaceGen]

simply put : the mass media is still the deciding factor, but that medium (mass media) cannot ignore what's happening on a hierarchial layer of internet forums. i believe this forum here (defence.pk/forums) to be one of the most decisive on the net. not just because i post here, but for it's overall community and intelligence and misinformation-debunking level.

 

[tranquilium]

that's brainwashed nonsense you're talking about here. severely exaggerated facts generalized to the entire country of tibet and it's long history. doesn't fly.

mods, as promised i've brought my password file and will now continue under this main account of mine on this forum..
thank you for your cooperation in letting me make these bold statements (warnings of policital activism countermeasures) while operating under a secondary account for a few days. the password files have been copied to this laptop.

to acknowledge that the tibetan system of government had it's flaws (which have been fixed now i believe), yes, indeed that too was made shown to me by my western sources about tibet.

every system of government has to protect itself and those majority of citizens who agree with their rule, from those nutters in any age of mankind who seek to take over power.

that's where those straw-rope laws come from, that's where chinese crackdowns on civilian unrest come from. that's why the occupy movement and in fact any street demonstrations anywhere don't get the job done anymore. governments have evolved beyond these measures of resistance against *their* unreasonable behavior.

these days, battles are won or lost based on what is said by whom on the internet.

the airplane was decisive, after that came the mass media as deciding factor, now the internet forums have taken over that role. i'm willing to explain why and how.. i like hong kong movies

Right, because the written law of old Tibetan is considered "exaggerated facts ". How about a photo exhibition?
Photo Exhibition '50 Years of Democratic Reform in Tibet'
Considering your entire argument hinges on that Tibetans were "happy". I would say the fact that the general Tibetan populace doesn't agree with your argument.

 

[PeaceGen]

Right, because the written law of old Tibetan is considered "exaggerated facts ". How about a photo exhibition?
Photo Exhibition '50 Years of Democratic Reform in Tibet'
Considering your entire argument hinges on that Tibetans were "happy". I would say the fact that the general Tibetan populace doesn't agree with your argument.

do you have surveys to back up your analysis? i'll accept chinese state-run surveys, but will compare them to western surveys done in the same time periods.

point is: lets focus on the future rather than get stuck in the past. let the dalai lama visit that mountain of his and return to his exile, let the hongkong-ese choose their own top leaders.. it's better for china as a whole i assure you.

and once more i plead for the chinese leadership to crack down with watercannons more than rubber bullets which always lead to real bullets being used, people dying, and a never-ending cycle of revenge starting..

 

[PeaceGen]

Right, because the written law of old Tibetan is considered "exaggerated facts ". How about a photo exhibition?
Photo Exhibition '50 Years of Democratic Reform in Tibet'
Considering your entire argument hinges on that Tibetans were "happy". I would say the fact that the general Tibetan populace doesn't agree with your argument.

your photo exhibition is chinese propaganda that adds up all that went wrong in tibet, then presenting it as the norm in tibet.
'peaceful liberation' is where you show you're lying.

 

[tranquilium]

your photo exhibition is chinese propaganda that adds up all that went wrong in tibet, then presenting it as the norm in tibet.
'peaceful liberation' is where you show you're lying.

Hey, if you don't trust written evidence, don't like photo evidence, I am not sure what kind of evidence can convince you, since video recorder really isn't available in a medieval theocracy.

Considering how much weight you put into "propaganda", have you considered why none of your source ever go into details on what old Tibetan laws are like or the condition of the people, but mere settled with a word "happy"? Because you can find one or two happy individual even in a backward theocracy, but it is much harder to falsify historical evidences that are on public display.

 

[PeaceGen]

china might say : "we _need_ control over tibet, hong kong and taiwan"...

you might be right. but the solution is a healthy measure of autonomy for all those regions, including their own leaders that can and have cooperated with the government in Beijing. it's definately not healthy for china as a whole (tibet, mainland, hongkong and taiwan) for Beijing to install "puppet leaders" for the regions of China that crave and deserve autonomy..

The world is waiting for a peacefully-arranged asian economic union. Led by the Chinese in Beijing. India and Pakistan excluded and allowed their own spheres of influence.

Hey, if you don't trust written evidence, don't like photo evidence, I am not sure what kind of evidence can convince you, since video recorder really isn't available in a medieval theocracy.

Considering how much weight you put into "propaganda", have you considered why none of your source ever go into details on what old Tibetan laws are like or the condition of the people, but mere settled with a word "happy"? Because you can find one or two happy individual even in a backward theocracy, but it is much harder to falsify historical evidences that are on public display.

You don't improve a religion by destroying it('s monestaries and monks). Hence my request to allow the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans to have a healthy measure of autonomy.

 

[tranquilium]

china might say : "we _need_ control over tibet, hong kong and taiwan"...

you might be right. but the solution is a healthy measure of autonomy for all those regions, including their own leaders that can and have cooperated with the government in Beijing.

The world is waiting for a peacefully-arranged asian economic union. Led by the Chinese in Beijing. India and Pakistan excluded and allowed their own spheres of influence.

Right, by that argument US should have let Texas, California and a number of other states to have their own leaders that "can and have cooperated" with the government in Washington DC.

Please, do you take the Chinese people as idiots that don't understand "separated you are weak and united you are strong"?

BTW, since you insist on none-Chinese sources, here a bit read from Michael Parenti for you:

Friendly Fuedalism - The Tibet Myth

 

[PeaceGen]

The US HAS autonomy per state. The right for states (regions) in the USA to set their own laws. Gay marriage laws, Wheed consumption laws, as 2 major recent examples of things being done decentrlized per region in the states.
Works like a charm

"seperated you are weak but united you are strong" - nice try.

let me add, to make it work in the real world of today : "unification is fostered by decentralized autonomy and profit sharing between regions of very large countries and unified levels of quality of education for kids and teens"..

 

[PeaceGen]

ofcourse, when it comes to education quality : math, accountancy, engineering, house-cleaning, clothing repair : equal for the entire (huge) country.

- religion and cultural education : different per region up to the school-building level.

 

[tranquilium]

china might say : "we _need_ control over tibet, hong kong and taiwan"...

you might be right. but the solution is a healthy measure of autonomy for all those regions, including their own leaders that can and have cooperated with the government in Beijing. it's definately not healthy for china as a whole (tibet, mainland, hongkong and taiwan) for Beijing to install "puppet leaders" for the regions of China that crave and deserve autonomy..

The world is waiting for a peacefully-arranged asian economic union. Led by the Chinese in Beijing. India and Pakistan excluded and allowed their own spheres of influence.


You don't improve a religion by destroying it('s monestaries and monks). Hence my request to allow the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans to have a healthy measure of autonomy.

I have stated at the very beginning. China is a secular state. Religion is a minor part of our life and it most certainly doesn't take precedence over people's well being. Religious improvement has nothing to with political power and certainly not involving any sort attempts to sabotage sovereign integrity of a nation.

 

[Sasquatch]

oppress the tibetans, hong kong-ese, or the taiwanese any further than you're trying today, and you're gonna have issues with me. i'm not afraid of any china man or woman. nor impressed by their military skills.

I personally don't care if you afraid of China or not or having issues with you, you can't do anything except rant on the internet hence no threat.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

that's the official propaganda line fed to the chinese people. we here in the west were shown a different picture. people happy with their religion in tibet for thousands of years. you forced them to conform to chinese ideals rather than their own. with rampant oppression and the destruction of nearly all monestaries in tibet. bad bad china. give the hongkongese protesters what they want, give the tibetans back their monestaries and their religion, and then china's leaders can have my respect.

'We dont care about your respect' - no you care only for your own egos and paycheck levels, that's your problem. greed of political power and luxury wealth. so much for the respectability of the chinese leadership, if there ever was one after they started on marxism.


oppress the tibetans, hong kong-ese, or the taiwanese any further than you're trying today, and you're gonna have issues with me. i'm not afraid of any china man or woman. nor impressed by their military skills.



you can't blame the dalai lama for seeking international help after what his country had to endure. he is the legitimate leader of the COUNTRY tibet. i deny china's right to the tibettan territory. it's an ongoing occupation that needs to end.

i suggest you not underestimate my influence that i've accumulated since 9/11, chinese leadership & supporters thereof..

nor my ability to stay alive and a nuisance you can't handle.

was he voted by his people in tibet? where is the west democracy now? he is a religion leader so he is legitimate leader of Tibet? Bullshiit and double standard

 

[bolo]

Chinese people are not stupid. Letting old fraudster back is like 養虎為患.