DAC briefed about Rafale negotiations, gives go ahead

[SURYA-1]

The Navy is a separate matter, they will do what is best for themselves and I don't think the Rafale-M is particularly appealing to them. The IAF alone may have 189 Rafales all told.

Then make composite total to anywhere near 259 as I guess Navy would like a squadron or two for offshore operations too.

Or is there any scope for Naval Tejas ??

 

[Abingdonboy]

Then make composite total to anywhere near 259 as I guess Navy would like a squadron or two for offshore operations too.

Again, I'm not convicted the IN is all to interested in the Rafale-M for their future carriers, they will (and do) want a 5th gen fighter given the timescales involved.

Or is there any scope for Naval Tejas ??

The N-LCA will serve just fine on the Viky and IAC-1 but it is hardly a suitable substitute for a heavy weight carrier fighter like the Rafale-M/MiG-29K let alone a 5th ten fighter.

 

[surya kiran]

Navy would like a squadron or two for offshore operations too.

The IN now needs force multipliers. It is quite evident, they see the Mig29K as their mainstay fighter with the NLCA as second line, till, the next gen comes online. They need to concentrate now on helis for AEW and transport and UAVs for surveillance, not to mentions more Neptunes for their air wings.

Wait for the LPDs. They are going to needs more choppers of the assault variant.

 

[SURYA-1]

The IN now needs force multipliers. It is quite evident, they see the Mig29K as their mainstay fighter with the NLCA as second line, till, the next gen comes online. They need to concentrate now on helis for AEW and transport and UAVs for surveillance, not to mentions more Neptunes for their air wings.

Wait for the LPDs. They are going to needs more choppers of the assault variant.

But I think Mig 29 K is old platform and hence may be they don't have enough room for further upgradations , while still to be developed naval Rafle may be designed for future 20-30 years.

 

[zambino]

What kind of technology transfer are we getting from France?

we will assemble 90rafales after getting complete knock down kits from dassault. Hal and a pvt company most probably reliance will manufacture it.

But I think Mig 29 K is old platform and hence may be they don't have enough room for further upgradations , while still to be developed naval Rafle may be designed for future 20-30 years.

first thing rafale can't operate from skijump carrier like vikramaditya and vikrant. So rafale simply can't replace mig29k atleast on these two carriers.. Now rafale can operate from catobar ins vishal but it is still a decade away . So most probably f35 will replace mig 29k in IN.

 

[Abingdonboy]

first thing rafale can't operate from skijump carrier like vikramaditya and vikrant. So rafale simply can't replace mig29k atleast on these two carriers.. Now rafale can operate from catobar ins vishal but it is still a decade away . So most probably f35 will replace mig 29k in IN.

Actually Dassualt have stated the Rafale-M can be used on STOBAR carriers but that is neither here nor there as the IN has the airwings of the Viky and IAC-1 fully stocked up with the MiG-29K and N-LCA. What is more relevant is the fact that the MiG-29K (and N-LCA) cannot operate from CATOBAR carriers which it is abundantly clear is the direction the IN is heading so the IN is on the hunt for a brand new fighter within the next 5 years.

 

[Hindustani78]

Rafale deal on track as purchase gets govt nod
NEW DELHI, Sep 01, 2015, DHNS:

The Defence Ministry has given the green signal to officials to complete the price negotiations for purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France so commercial negotiations can be concluded at the earliest.

This is a clear signal that the multi-billion-dollar Rafale deal is on the track.“The negotiation committee apprised the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), headed by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, of the progress (on Rafale negotiations). The DAC told the panel to go ahead,” said a Defence Ministry official on Tuesday after the meeting.
The negotiation team is headed by Air Marshal S B P Sinha.

The DAC also gave the green signal for the purchase of 48 Mi-17V5 helicopters from Russia for Rs 6,966 crore and seven squadrons of indigenous Aakash-II air defence missiles, to be made in India for Rs 4,790 crore.

The DAC approved overall military purchase worth more than Rs 13,000 crore.

The panel, however, spent most of its time on the Rafale deal, announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on his April visit to Paris.

Other important DAC decisions were purchase of 8 Chetak helicopters at a price of Rs 322 crore and nine tubs for Rs 300 crore for the Navy. Also the IAF will get new ATC radars and the Army short-span bridge and tank trawls.

The government's assurance can negate reports of the multi-billion-dollar deal running into rough weather because of the Indian negotiators' tough position.

The two sides earlier decided to complete the price negotiations by July 31. Speculations of trouble began when that didn't happen.

 

[Last Samuri]

I see 36 coming now immediately

And a second batch of 36 being signed for in 2019-2020

May be even 72 more in 2020 BY which time INDIAN GDP will be touching over $3 trillion easily.

 

[zambino]

Actually Dassualt have stated the Rafale-M can be used on STOBAR carriers but that is neither here nor there as the IN has the airwings of the Viky and IAC-1 fully stocked up with the MiG-29K and N-LCA. What is more relevant is the fact that the MiG-29K (and N-LCA) cannot operate from CATOBAR carriers which it is abundantly clear is the direction the IN is heading so the IN is on the hunt for a brand new fighter within the next 5 years.

and that new fighter is most probably f35 . Right sir?? >>>

 

[Abingdonboy]

I see 36 coming now immediately

And a second batch of 36 being signed for in 2019-2020

May be even 72 more in 2020 BY which time INDIAN GDP will be touching over $3 trillion easily.

The timeline presented here doesn't make much sense. By 2020-22 not only will the Rafale's production line (likely)be closed but all of India's MiG-21s and -27s be out of service and their replacements sought.

Within the next 18 months India will be producing Rafales in India for follow on orders, anyone thinking 36 is enough is wrong.

By the time last payment for these Rafales is made (around 2025/6, India's economy will be touching $5TN USD.

and that new fighter is most probably f35 . Right sir?? >>>

Unfortunatly the odds look to be in the F-35's favour.

 

[Perpendicular]

Unfortunatly the odds look to be in the F-35's favour.

Unfortunately is correct word. Why we are not thinking about common platform for navy and airforce.
I wont't mind any of the above but commonality.

 

[Makaramarma]

Based on what's been said so far, this is what I understand.

1. First 36 Rafale will not have 50% offset and will probably be made in France. This will ensure faster delivery.

2. Offset will be implemented in the next batch which will be made in India. This will take time but will ensure 50% offset is implemented.

3. So the Rafale deal is certainly going to be much bigger than 36 AC.

4. What guarantees is the GoI getting to ensure the offset will be implemented ? Is the 50% of deal value submitted as Bank Guarantee ? This will be interesting.

5. What about penalty for delays in implementing the Offset ? opportunity cost, depreciation etc..

 

[Oldman1]

The Navy is a separate matter, they will do what is best for themselves and I don't think the Rafale-M is particularly appealing to them. The IAF alone may have 189 Rafales all told.

Why not? Why is the Rafale not attractive to the Navy?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

To be honest, i do feel if we are already planning for Rafales for minimum 126, we should explore the same Rafale M version also to see its efficacy either from the ACC or for shore based defence under naval arm. Like it or not but if we say for our new ACC plan F35 is procured (most likely as of now as no other competitors are in sight or perhaps bundled with EMALS and E2D), we wont get either the commonality nor the benefits of localisation and make in India deal of rafales.

Also to get two different 5th generation bird (Pakfa/fgfa and F35) is a bit too much for me.. logically if F35 is what navy looks to then whats the number and whats the benefit for such a program over locally manufactured say rafale M and existing supply chain/localisation etc would be a very welcome headache for MOD surely.
If we end up having say 100 F35 (shore based and ACC based together) or say 5-6 squadrons still MOD could argue something. If its say just 36-45 birds just for ACC, these war birds could be hangar queen as just off the shelf purchase wont give massive advantage nor most operational efficiency/benefits as we will be dependent on US tech support for everything.
Now dont get me wrong i am not against US birds, but not with just 2 squadrons and no bargaining ability...