Cutting Internet in Iran

[SalarHaqq]

@waz This thread and its title represent fake news / disinformation.

The bill passed by Iran's parliament is not going to "cut the internet off" at all. As mohsen pointed out, the text of the bill is public, anyone can read it and there is actually nothing in it that stipulates a disconnection of the internet.

In truth, it is even possible that some of the currently filtered websites, will become freely accessible if their owners and the Iranian government find an agreement on certain technicalities (negotiations are ongoing).

MP's are even discussing the official legalization of VPN's, through which every filtered website becomes accessible (legal or not, these VPN's are already available to everyone).

This thread should be locked for outright disinformation.


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The only solution is what no government in Iran was willing to do.
Build our own phones and echo system . Banning foreigner is useless it only lead to people looking for ways to bypass that ban.

There are ways to make it materially impossible for people to bypass bans. This is what no government in Iran was willing to do, due to the pressure / blackmail exerted by liberals and their foreign backers.

 

[Hack-Hook]

@waz This thread and its title represent fake news / disinformation.

The bill passed by Iran's parliament is not going to "cut the internet off" at all. As mohsen pointed out, the text of the bill is public, anyone can read it and there is actually nothing in it that stipulates a disconnection of the internet.

In truth, it is even possible that some of the currently filtered websites, will become freely accessible if their owners and the Iranian government find an agreement on certain technicalities (negotiations are ongoing).

MP's are even discussing the official legalization of VPN's, through which every filtered website becomes accessible (legal or not, these VPN's are already available to everyone).

This thread should be locked for outright disinformation.


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There are ways to make it materially impossible for people to bypass bans. This is what no government in Iran was willing to do, due to the pressure / blackmail exerted by liberals and their foreign backers.

If they did that it meant cutting on commerce trades accessing scientific data and ....

 

[SalarHaqq]

If they did that it meant cutting on commerce trades accessing scientific data and ....

With a reverse-filtering system, websites useful for commerce, trade and scientific data can be "filtered in".

 

[Hack-Hook]

MP's are even discussing the official legalization of VPN's, through which every filtered website becomes accessible (legal or not, these VPN's are already available to everyone).

Won't you think that would have made us laughing stock

With a reverse-filtering system, websites useful for commerce, trade and scientific data can be "filtered in".

And if they allow those website then there are ways to bypass all filtering.

 

[SalarHaqq]

And if they allow those website then there are ways to bypass all filtering.

I can think of a possible architecture which might fix the issue. First, there needs to be an initial portal that functions as the only node between Iran the global internet (all of Iran's physical connections to the internet should lead exclusively to this exchange point). ISP's should not be able to connect to this portal, whose task it will be to pre-select authorized websites from the global internet.

Then, all these green-lighted websites should be "fed" into a second exchange point in the network, which will itself not be able to connect to the global internet, but will only receive what the initial portal provides it with, in a one-way type of data traffic.

It is this second exchange point that all national ISP's will connect to.

 

[sammuel]

@waz This thread and its title represent fake news / disinformation.

there you go :

Hardline cleric wants to deny-access to the internet :

Hardliner Cleric Wants To Deny Access To Internet To Prevent 'Lust'

A hardliner cleric in Iran has called on the new president Ebrahim Raisi to restrict access to the internet for young people to stop the intrusion of alien cultures.

iranintl.com

Iran Protests: Internet Shutdowns Becoming More Targeted

Iran Protests: Internet Shutdowns Becoming More Targeted

iranwire.com

 

[SalarHaqq]

there you go :

Hardline cleric wants to deny-access to the internet :

You probably ought to read my post again. The OP claims that the Iranian Parliament passed a bill which cuts Iran off from the internet.

This is simply false and counter-factual.

What a random cleric - who is not in charge and has no power to change the laws by the way, is calling for, has no incidence on this fact.

So my point stands: the notion that the Parliament instituted a law to interrupt the internet in Iran is untrue. It is fake news and therefore the thread deserves to be locked or the title changed (for example into something like "The debate about Iran's national internet") as per forum rules.

Iran Protests: Internet Shutdowns Becoming More Targeted

Iran Protests: Internet Shutdowns Becoming More Targeted

iranwire.com

This only confirms what I wrote: there's no law disconnecting Iran from the internet. Shutdowns are targeted, short-term administrative measures to undercut the planning of riots and terrorist attacks when necessary.

 

[sammuel]

Shutdowns are targeted, short-term administrative measures to undercut the planning of riots and terrorist attacks when necessary.

In other words to stop people from protesting.

~

 

[SalarHaqq]

In other words to stop people from protesting.

~

To stop foreign-backed terrorists and saboteurs from derailing or hijacking otherwise tolerated protests.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I can think of a possible architecture which might fix the issue. First, there needs to be an initial portal that functions as the only node between Iran the global internet (all of Iran's physical connections to the internet should lead exclusively to this exchange point). ISP's should not be able to connect to this portal, whose task it will be to pre-select authorized websites from the global internet.

Then, all these green-lighted websites should be "fed" into a second exchange point in the network, which will itself not be able to connect to the global internet, but will only receive what the initial portal provides it with, in a one-way type of data traffic.

It is this second exchange point that all national ISP's will connect to.

Unless you be able to understand what kind of data these sites are transferring then your solution is failed and because of encrypted nature of these communications then that portals can do nothing.
The only solution is completely cut the net or brainwash your people north Korea style to believe what mockery they provide is actually internet

 

[SalarHaqq]

Unless you be able to understand what kind of data these sites are transferring then your solution is failed and because of encrypted nature of these communications then that portals can do nothing.

I don't see why. All communications with the global internet will be accomplished by the one central portal. That portal has a list of authorized and blocked websites. I fail to see where the problem lies for said portal to simply transfer these data exchanged with authorized websites to national ISP's. If VPN's can do it, so can the portal.

Granted, I'm not an IT expert by any means. Are you? I'd prefer a (or several) fool proof expert opinion(s) on this prior to reaching any conclusion.

That said, you can theoretically download entire websites and furnish national users with those copies. Everyone of us can do this with our primitive means... Simple as that. So there's always a potential solution for the most important content, at the very least for non-interactive, "read only" use. Additionally, this is something that could create tens if not hundreds of thousands of jobs, with an entire army of trusted operatives downloading and saving websites, only to provide them to national ISP's which themselves would be physically cut off from the global network.

The only solution is completely cut the net or brainwash your people north Korea style to believe what mockery they provide is actually internet.

The present internet is already brainwashing them sufficiently to pose an existential threat. The western imposed order is genuinely totalitarian and intentionally driving nations to collective suicide, with Iran being their worldwide target number one; the only distinctive feature of western regimes among other totalitarian systems, is their less coercive nature - on the surface, and only as long as they can have their way as is. Hence why an erudite scholar has correctly referred to the US regime as an "inverted totalitarianism". In many ways, they are far more despicable than the North Korean system.

 

[gambit]

I don't see why. All communications with the global internet will be accomplished by the one central portal. That portal has a list of authorized and blocked websites. I fail to see where the problem lies for said portal to simply transfer these data exchanged with authorized websites to national ISP's. If VPN's can do it, so can the portal.

Granted, I'm not an IT expert by any means. Are you? I'd prefer a (or several) fool proof expert opinion(s) on this prior to reaching any conclusion.

Actually, at the high level, you are correct. The government can be that national VPN. In the case of China and NKR, the governments are that VPN.

That said, you can theoretically download entire websites and furnish national users with those copies. Everyone of us can do this with our primitive means... Simple as that. So there's always a potential solution for the most important content, at the very least for non-interactive, "read only" use. Additionally, this is something that could create tens if not hundreds of thousands of jobs, with an entire army of trusted operatives downloading and saving websites, only to provide them to national ISP's which themselves would be physically cut off from the global network.

Right. This would make the government into the country's largest employer being the electronic gatekeeper of information. The problem here is that this path does not guarantee controlled of information because inevitably, many of those employees will leak out what they see, thereby defeating the purpose of the government VPN in the first place.

When I was active duty, I had a chance to play tourist in East Berlin when that half of the city existed. I also learned that Soviet military and intel officers considers postings to the GDR to be the best assignment because of the availability of Western goods, which includes information. Western news were superior to the controlled news in the Warsaw Pact countries and in the Soviet Union.

The point here is that there is no way you can have absolute controlled information. Not even China can, and do they try. Harder than you think and they still failed. And China's model is exactly as you described.

Hence why an erudite scholar has correctly referred to the US regime as an "inverted totalitarianism".

Did you actually read Sheldon Wolin's book?

In many ways, they are far more despicable than the North Korean system.

I noticed you removed the last sentence where you originally said the NKR-eans are happier possibly due to being so controlled. Why the removal?

 

[SalarHaqq]

The point here is that there is no way you can have absolute controlled information. Not even China can, and do they try. Harder than you think and they still failed. And China's model is exactly as you described.

It will still represent a huge step forward for Iran and, by logical equivalence, a significant impediment to western ability to orchestrate "colored revolutions" and the like inside Iran, compared to present conditions.

There are also ways around the problem of assorted civil servants leaking blocked information to the public. I don't rank the Soviet Union, especially after it engaged in detente with the US, as the most apt in this regard. Also, it can safely be assumed that all things being equal and no other factors coming into play, China is shielded from major, system-threatening destabilization attempts of this kind. Hong Kong is a special case and an exception, for obvious reasons. Time will tell.

Did you actually read Sheldon Wolin's book?

Not yet, it is however on my very extensive "to do" list and I did actually read several in-depth reviews of the book. Enough to grasp what the concept he introduces is basically about.

I noticed you removed the last sentence where you originally said the NKR-eans are happier possibly due to being so controlled. Why the removal?

Because I try my best to be a fair person. Which, in this case, does not imply that I backtrack on my statement per se, but simply that I realized one could, in an a priori logical manner, oppose to my remark the fact that western regimes may achieve similar illusions of happiness (relatively speaking) among their citizens, by their own set of techniques, and that therefore, it may be argued we're actually dealing with a similarity more than a difference. Though I do not believe it is chiefly a result of manipulation in the DPRK, but I anticipated that this is what I would get as a reply, and I do not really have enough time to engage in a long side debate about Korea.

 

[gambit]

There are also ways around the problem of assorted civil servants leaking blocked information to the public.

So you think you have the methods that none of the tens of thousands of IT and HR experts over the decades of the Internet do not have?

Because I try my best to be a fair person. Which, in this case, does not imply that I backtrack on my statement per se, but simply that I realized one could oppose to my argument the fact that western regimes may achieve similar illusions of happiness - relatively speaking, among their citizens, by their own set of techniques, and that therefore, it may be argued that were're actually dealing with a similarity rather than a difference. Though I do not believe it is chiefly a result of manipulation in the DPRK, but I anticipated that this is what I would get as a reply.

The reason you removed that sentence is because you know you are a hypocrite. And I say that kindly.

By your flags, am going to assume you live a relatively free life. You go, do, and read what you want. Your limits are chiefly by your own resources such as time and money, and less from externals. It also mean that you would be miserable if you are transported to NKR right now, fully vested in every knowledge you can remember. No one can take away the metadata that you already created in your memory. Therein lies the problem for individual happiness -- metadata. You do not need to remember the details of all events in your life. You just need to remember the high level of them. The NKR-eans will never have the same as you do. You will come to hate them for their happiness. Their knowledge level is child-like, not childish, compares to yours. Why do you think American defectors to NKR want to return? Despite their decades living in NKR, they are unhappy souls because of the metadata they still possess of the lives they had before defections.

Ignorance is bliss. And even though you know the NKR-eans will always be happier than you, theirs is an ignorance you do not want to partake. And that is why you are a hypocrite.

 

[SalarHaqq]

So you think you have the methods that none of the tens of thousands of IT and HR experts over the decades of the Internet do not have?

I think there are methods to effectively control government employees, as well as methods to neutralize the effects of disobedience among some of them when it comes to the topic at hand.

As long as mainland China is safe and stable, the facts vindicate my assumption anyway.

The reason you removed that sentence is because you know you are a hypocrite. And I say that kindly.

Ah, the inevitable ad hominem. Why am I not surprised?

The reason you resort to such methods is because you realize my purely rational logic is not easy to counter. Leaving you with only two options: personal attacks and/or para-logic / sophistry.

By your flags, am going to assume you live a relatively free life. You go, do, and read what you want. Your limits are chiefly by your own resources such as time and money, and less from externals. It also mean that you would be miserable if you are transported to NKR right now, fully vested in every knowledge you can remember. No one can take away the metadata that you already created in your memory. Therein lies the problem for individual happiness -- metadata. You do not need to remember the details of all events in your life. You just need to remember the high level of them. The NKR-eans will never have the same as you do. You will come to hate them for their happiness. Their knowledge level is child-like, not childish, compares to yours. Why do you think American defectors to NKR want to return? Despite their decades living in NKR, they are unhappy souls because of the metadata they still possess of the lives they had before defections.

Ignorance is bliss. And even though you know the NKR-eans will always be happier than you, theirs is an ignorance you do not want to partake. And that is why you are a hypocrite.

Apart from the fact that the above essentially represents speculation, who is to say this so-called "freedom" to amass knowledge trumps actual, de facto happiness? It's an entire philosophical debate of its own. But vastly off topic. And, as said, based on speculation more than anything else. As for the notion that limitations to time and money do not in fact represent major challenges to individual freedom... no comment. In order to shed doubt on my honesty however, much more would be required than this.