Curious Case of Brahmos M (mini)

[The_Sidewinder]

why not on LCA Mk2 / NLCA ?

also if they are able to takeoff and land with 5.5-6tonnes then why not

why only carrier based ?

why not look at the map of IOR

with navy progressively taking over responsibility for coastal defence in southern india, Andaman & Lakshwadweep ?

the southern india, Andaman & Lakshwadweep are large stationary aircraft carriers - NO?

+ consider Naval bases with airstirps all along the coast

starts with jamnagar, porbunder, junagadh in gujarat + Baroda

Mumbai
Goa (INS HANSA)
Karwar
Sulur
Lakshwadweep
Andamans
Vizag,
+ 1 eastern base coming up

think

Range (combat radius) of LCA Mk2 / NCLA - 600 km + 300 km range of Brahmos Mini lets condier 750 Km total range

most of the immideate IOR falls under this range of 750Km with low cost light fighter

I guess you have read Sancho's posts. Its hardly about maximum take of & landing bro. If you haven't, read them below.

LCA will carry not a single Brahmos, no matter in which version. The centerline can't carry such long loads, the wingstations doesn't have the weight limit, nor does it make any sense to use such heavy loads with a single centerline fuel tank on a light class fighter. We shouldn't make LCA better or more important than it is, there is no need for it to carry heavy loads when you have so many bigger fighters in the fleet. Even in the navy, it will be the Mig 29K that is aimed to carry larger missile, but if that's possible from a STOBAR carrier needs to be seen though.



Because IAF doesn't have this capability at all so far. The longest range weapon is the Kh 59, but other than that we hardly have credible stand off range weapons in the pack so far. It's disappointing if we didn't add Scalp for the upgraded M2Ks, we badly need CM strike capabilities.

First of all it's DRDO that develops the LCA not HAL. Secondly, it's not about if LCA should carry such a missile, but if it's possible to carry and operate it. Even the Brahmos M is simply too boig for LCA and operating N-LCA from a STOBAR carrier will add more than enough operational limitations, even with lighter loads. N-LCA might carry only a single anti ship missile (like Kh35, or Harpoon) with 2 fuel tanks to useful ranges, or 2 missiles with just a single fuel tank to short ranges.
I even doubt so far that the Mig 29K will be able to take off and land with 2 x Brahmos M from a carrier, so lets not dream about LCA with even less thrust and capability.

As I said, more interesting than what happens with N-LCA is, how capable the Mig 29K will be and if it will be able to take off and land with such loads.
N-LCA itself is mainly a paper plane at the moment, since it's dependent on the MK2 changes that are not even developed yet. So dreaming about Brahmos for it, before we even know how the final specs of the Air Force based MK2 will be, is simply too overoptimistic. One only needs to see the difference between the specs Saab gave about Gripen earlier and what now comes up. If things will go a similar way with LCA MK2, I feel many people will be disappointed by the weight and performance, let alone of the naval version.

 

[Trawllu]

I guess you have read Sancho's posts. Its hardly about maximum take of & landing bro. If you haven't, read them below.

sancho has i=his opinion fine

i have mine

you can choose to believe what you want to

but

about LCA capability to lift the load i have already indicated why it is possible - weight wise

as to length etc the Brahmos M is going to be smaller in lenght too check it out

 

[The_Sidewinder]

sancho has i=his opinion fine

i have mine

you can choose to believe what you want to

but

about LCA capability to lift the load i have already indicated why it is possible - weight wise

as to length etc the Brahmos M is going to be smaller in lenght too check it out

I have read the specs of Brahmos M. Right now, Sancho seems more credible, even whatever little knowledge I have about aircrafts, I feel it will need a lot of tinkering integrate a single 1.5 ton brahmosM to LCAmkii successfully, forget two.

That being said, I will be very happy if DRDO makes me to eat my own words.

 

[sathya]

sancho already stated it would much better if we develop Nirbhay mini for airforce..

even with 500 kms range, it will be a significant extension of strike

 

[Archie]

Mig 29K will get the Brahmos M, not so sure about the NLCA

Air Launched Brahmos will be a Big improvement over the KH-35 Anti Ship missile used by the Mig29k,

It might also enable us to keep the Harpoon just for the P8I
We might also scrap the Exocet and SCALP Missiles as part of Rafale's Weapons package and Go with Brahmos integration with Rafale

 

[sancho]

as to length etc the Brahmos M is going to be smaller in lenght too check it out

True, but with 6m still far longer than any other payload it has, not including if the diameter fits between the gear bays, where it currently only carries 725l fuel tanks. So there are more reasons that just weight that needs to be considered, besides the limitations of the ski-jump take off from a carrier or the likely weight changes the MK2 will have to face and these things shouldn't be ignored.

sancho already stated it would much better if we develop Nirbhay mini for airforce..

It would be better, if DRDO goes down that way is another question though. A basic anti ship / stand off missile might not offer enough pride to be a world class developer.

 

[Trawllu]

True, but with 6m still far longer than any other payload it has, not including if the diameter fits between the gear bays, where it currently only carries 725l fuel tanks. So there are more reasons that just weight that needs to be considered, besides the limitations of the ski-jump take off from a carrier or the likely weight changes the MK2 will have to face and these things shouldn't be ignored.



It would be better, if DRDO goes down that way is another question though. A basic anti ship / stand off missile might not offer enough pride to be a world class developer.

my dear when you say currently it carries 725 l fuel tank you are talking about Mk1
what i am saying is about Mk2

 

[sancho]

my dear when you say currently it carries 725 l fuel tank you are talking about Mk1
what i am saying is about Mk2

Which doesn't matter, since it's not the weight to lift, but the space for the missile that is the first issue and you keep ignoring that. Brahmos M is longer than the 1200l fuel tank and not even that should fit on the centerline because of SIZE restrictions.

 

[Trawllu]

Which doesn't matter, since it's not the weight to lift, but the space for the missile that is the first issue and you keep ignoring that. Brahmos M is longer than the 1200l fuel tank and not even that should fit on the centerline because of SIZE restrictions.

i am not talking of cetreline pylon

on centre line pyloen besides the lenght the dia will also become the issue

since my first post i have said on two innerline pylons 1 each

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The LCA MK 2 will be smaller in size than Mig 29 K and Rafale

The Maximum payload that it would be able to carry is 5000 KG

It will have to modified or rather redesigned for being able to carry Brahmos M

So why bother ; we need to get the LCA Mk2 up and running
and NOT get delayed because of this Brahmos OBSESSION
Ie putting Brahmos on EVERYTHING

 

[sancho]

since my first post i have said on two innerline pylons 1 each

Which as I said earlier too, is out of question by the fact that an LCA with a single small fuel tank and such a heavy payload will have no useful range and therefor that config has no operational sense. Add the fact that the ski-jump take off is expected to cut around 1/3rd of the payload and it gets more than doubtful that 2 x 1.5t for Brahmos + centerline fuel tank could be carried at all.
Again, don't make more out of LCA than it is meant to be. It's just a light class fighter, for air defence, CAS and is more likely to get Kh 35 than Brahmos.