Crying Greek pensioner: The Story Behind the Heartbreaking Photo

[bsruzm]

 

[Armstrong]

@As is - where is - I feel for you my Brother and I hope that Greece is able to get out of this mess soon !

 

[Norwegian]

Maybe they should have paid their taxes and avoided all this.

Yeah, blame the poor for all its problems. Typical crony Capitalist.

Not just that, poor fiscal management. The Greek government's revenue is about 42 percent of GDP. What they need to do (and do it soon) is raise tax rates.

And ensure mass capital flight out of the country? Don't people understand that raising the taxes with no capital controls is counter productive?

 

[livingdead]

Yeah, blame the poor for all its problems. Typical crony Capitalist.


And ensure mass capital flight out of the country? Don't people understand that raising the taxes with no capital controls is counter productive?

in democracy ultimately its the people who are responsible for their misfortune. If some party is promising you sky, you should be careful.
In UK, the winning party clearly told to people, we are going to cut your welfare budget (by 12 billion I think), still they got into power. You can always vote for parties who tell you fairy tale, how 'you dont deserve to be treated badly', 'its all bloody bankers and rich people, we will force them to pay for this mess' etc.

 

[Norwegian]

in democracy ultimately its the people who are responsible for their misfortune. If some party is promising you sky, you should be careful.

No, people are only responsible for putting a group of people in government. Its the government that is ultimately responsible for the mess it causes on behalf of people that elected it to run the country in the first place! Did you know Iceland faced much worse crisis than Greece. They were left with 10x more debt than their entire gdp. Yet they managed to recover because unlike Greece they had an independent currency which was immediately depreciated. Foreigners could no longer take their money out from Icelandic banks but national depositors were protected. UK even tried using anti-terror laws against Icelandic government but failed miserably when in popular referendum, people of Iceland refused to pay their dues with extortionist methods and threats. Shame on Greece government for not saying no 7 years ago, at the start of the crisis than extending the problem up until now. Walk away from all kinds of odious debt. Don't pay. Do like Iceland @LeveragedBuyout
The miraculous story of Iceland - The Washington Post

Thousands of Icelanders are sending a message to Gordon Brown that they are not terrorists after the UK used terror laws to freeze their assets.

An online petition was launched this week following the UK government's attempt to protect British savings in Iceland's failed Landsbanki.

The petition has been signed by about 40,000 people and shows Icelanders with signs saying they are not terrorists.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Icelandic anger at UK terror move

In UK, the winning party clearly told to people, we are going to cut your welfare budget (by 12 billion I think), still they got into power.

UK's voting system sucks bad. Its not even proportionate representation. UKIP grabbed popular vote in all of UK, but managed to get only one seat in the parliament. LOL

 

[Hyperion]

I feel for the pensioners, however, they have leeched enough from Germany. Stupidity and freeloading has to have an end, and the Greeks have just broken that ceiling. Next in line is Greek Cyprus.

 

[livingdead]

No, people are only responsible for putting a group of people in government. Its the government that is ultimately responsible for the mess it causes on behalf of people that elected. Did you know Iceland faced much worse crisis than Greece. They were left with 10x more debt than their entire gdp. Yet they managed to recover because unlike Greece they had an independent currency which was immediately depreciated. Foreigners could no longer take their money out from Icelandic banks but national depositors were protected. UK even tried using anti-terror laws against Icelandic government but failed miserably when in popular referendum, people of Iceland refused to pay their dues with extortionist methods and trust. Shame on Greece government for not saying no 7 years ago, at the start of the crisis than extending the problem up until now. Walk away from all kinds of odious debt. Don't pay. Do like Iceland @LeveragedBuyout
The miraculous story of Iceland - The Washington Post


UK's voting system sucks bad. Its not even proportionate representation. UKIP grabbed popular vote in all of UK, but managed to get only one seat in the parliament. LOL

Greeks can always walk away, thats why they are having referendum, right? Whats the point of blaming govt, they are your people, they are one of you. Greek and italians must be corrupt society(compared to UK, france or germany) and they get the leaders they deserve.
Yes, greeks joining currency union was probably bad idea, but who will they blame for that? UK did not join currency union, although there were brits who believed in it. Ultimately you pay the price for your decision, imagine currency union had worked so well, greeks had left behind all other western countries.
In that case you will be blaming british govt for being stupid (for not joining the union). Well thats the decision they took, and they get both benefit if it works and pay the price if it did not.

remember there are always economists telling you what is best, but best advice tends to be 'go back in time and change xyz'

How to elect a govt is separate topic altogether.

 

[Norwegian]

I feel for the pensioners, however, they have leeched enough from Germany. Stupidity and freeloading has to have an end, and the Greeks have just broken that ceiling. Next in line is Greek Cyprus.

Shame on you for calling pensioners leechers. Have you got any idea how long they have worked and payed taxes and now gets nothing, thanks to debating Euroweenies sitting in Brussels and Paris?

Yes, greeks joining currency union was probably bad idea, but who will they blame for that? UK did not join currency union, although there were brits who believed in it. Ultimately you pay the price for your decision, imagine currency union had worked so well, greeks had left behind all other western countries.

They were persuaded / pressured to join the monetary union. Twice they tried to lure Norwegians in, but thank Goodness to our deeply rooted democratic traditions, the issue was put on popular referendum like Switzerland. And in both cases majority voted no. I don't think there is gonna be a need for a third referendum after Greece debacle.

 

[Hyperion]

I'm an investment banker... was there when the banking 'crisis' hit, I've witnessed their 'lifestyles' prior to this fiasco....... great many people lost their 'livelihoods' all over the world, because of the stupidity of few select nations......... I have little to no sympathy for nations that can not manage borrowed money.......... call me what you wish, a sick man can not be part of Europe without being able to manage it's finances, and on top of that being an arrogant twat....... days of freeloading on German peoples hard earned cash is over......

Shame on you for calling pensioners leechers. Have you got any idea how long they have worked and payed taxes and now gets nothing, thanks to debating Euroweenies sitting in Brussels and Paris?

 

[Norwegian]

I'm an investment banker... was there when the banking 'crisis' hit, I've witnessed their 'lifestyles' prior to this fiasco....... great many people lost their 'livelihoods' all over the world, because of the stupidity of few select nations......... I have little to no sympathy for nations that can not manage borrowed money.......... call me what you wish, a sick man can not be part of Europe without being able to manage it's finances, and on top of that being an arrogant twat....... days of freeloading on German peoples hard earned cash is over......

Funny. Its not the person borrowing that can be blamed for all his sickness, rather the creditor as well. Both parties are equally to blame for current Greece debacle, yet almost everybody is blaming Greeks? Why on earth would you pay already debt overloaded country with more odious debt in hopes of letting them stay in the eurozone? Its like treating a drug addict with more drugs hoping he will eventually "recover". That's what troika did to Greece post financial crisis. It was their so-called "brilliant" austerity plan that destroyed what was left of Greek economy.

 

[flamer84]

in democracy ultimately its the people who are responsible for their misfortune. If some party is promising you sky, you should be careful.
In UK, the winning party clearly told to people, we are going to cut your welfare budget (by 12 billion I think), still they got into power. You can always vote for parties who tell you fairy tale, how 'you dont deserve to be treated badly', 'its all bloody bankers and rich people, we will force them to pay for this mess' etc.

The Greeks still don't understand.Saw bunch of them today in interviews saying they'll vote NO because they don't want their social spendings cut.These people still don't understand what's happenning to them or what's coming....

 

[Hyperion]

As an advisor I was against Greeks being allowed to borrow previously as well, however, many other consultants-cum-advisors wanted to give them "The Space" to have a soft landing...... which as you see now, was a horrible choice!

And no..... austerity plan didn't destroy their economy...... the blame lies squarely with the Greeks....... get ready for some fallout...... suicide rate is about to shoot through the roof.....

Can you can guess who's next in line?

Funny. Its not the person borrowing that can be blamed for all his sickness, rather the creditor as well. Both parties are equally to blame for current Greece debacle, yet almost everybody is blaming Greeks? Why on earth would you pay already debt overloaded country with more odious debt in hopes of letting them stay in the eurozone? Its like treating a drug addict with more drugs hoping he will eventually "recover". That's what troika did to Greece post financial crisis. It was their so-called "brilliant" austerity plan that destroyed what was left of Greek economy.

 

[livingdead]

Shame on you for calling pensioners leechers. Have you got any idea how long they have worked and payed taxes and now gets nothing, thanks to debating Euroweenies sitting in Brussels and Paris?


They were persuaded / pressured to join the monetary union. Twice they tried to lure Norwegians in, but thank Goodness to our deeply rooted democratic traditions, the issue was put on popular referendum like Switzerland. And in both cases majority voted no. I don't think there is gonna be a need for a third referendum after Greece debacle.

who is responsible for giving in to persuation?
Like I said, your analysis is retrospective, benefit of hindsight is always wonderful.
If greeks had succeeded, you will say how sagacious the greeks are, people of a land which gave us great philosophers have be be wise, and how brits were uncivilized till romans conquered, even then they were considered just a frontier, surely the stupidity continues till date....

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

No, people are only responsible for putting a group of people in government. Its the government that is ultimately responsible for the mess it causes on behalf of people that elected it to run the country in the first place! Did you know Iceland faced much worse crisis than Greece. They were left with 10x more debt than their entire gdp. Yet they managed to recover because unlike Greece they had an independent currency which was immediately depreciated. Foreigners could no longer take their money out from Icelandic banks but national depositors were protected. UK even tried using anti-terror laws against Icelandic government but failed miserably when in popular referendum, people of Iceland refused to pay their dues with extortionist methods and threats. Shame on Greece government for not saying no 7 years ago, at the start of the crisis than extending the problem up until now. Walk away from all kinds of odious debt. Don't pay. Do like Iceland @LeveragedBuyout
The miraculous story of Iceland - The Washington Post

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Icelandic anger at UK terror move


UK's voting system sucks bad. Its not even proportionate representation. UKIP grabbed popular vote in all of UK, but managed to get only one seat in the parliament. LOL

I have to take the middle ground on this. In a democracy, the people are responsible for their government, and should thus shoulder the responsibility for the government's bad decisions (and certainly have more responsibility than the citizens of a foreign country do).

Deep down, it's hard for me to believe that Greeks didn't know that a retirement age a decade lower than other advanced economies combined with pensions much more generous than Western countries was somehow unsustainable. It really was only possible because of fiscal transfers from other Eurozone members plus the excessive borrowing with low borrowing costs enabled by membership in the Eurozone. There is also the matter of Greece lying about its accounts in order to qualify for Euro membership. That fraud has come back to bite them, and rightly so.

On the other side, you are correct that crony capitalism is also responsible. Why are investors never allowed to fail these days? Greece should not have been bailed out, and the investors should have been wiped out. This reality is finally dawning on the market, which is why Greek interest rates are skyrocketing, even as the Greek economy suffers a severe depression.

Iceland did the right thing. Regain sovereignty, and take the consequences. Don't whine like Greece, just get on with fixing the mess. If Greece doesn't want to face the consequences of a Grexit, it should accept the diktats of the IMF and Eurogroup like a good child. Adults know you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Enough of the limbo. Hopefully the referendum will decide this, once and for all.

 

[pakdefender]

The jews have screwed Greece and they will also take revenge from Germany ( if they can! ) for WWII

Why is Greece the most anti-Semitic country in Europe?
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