Featured Croatia to drop €1 billion on used Rafale fighter jets

[VkdIndian]

Pakistanis are getting ships from turkey, helicopters from Italy, Patrol aircraft from Brazil, and good old tanks from china while building their aircraft with Russian engines. I don't see any problems with getting their hands on things that they need. Only Americans are trying to set hurdles but that is also a blessing in disguise.

Yes, it is better than mostly relying on the US as earlier. But the shift has taken place towards China now. Getting hands on things that Pakistan needs is severely curtailed by the US factor. Turkish helicopter deal is one example. While choosing any equipment Pakistan has to weigh in the US factor for each and every deal. I don’t know how is that not a limiting factor with US being a major OEM for many subsystems.

China has become the big ticket weapons guy as on date for Pakistan due to US and France factor. Russians have supplied the engines. Would they do the same with other weapons? Yes, It could change tomorrow due to some change in the scenario but today the options are quite limited for Pakistan.

Money remains factor number one in that limitation. Geo-politics being the second one.

 

[GiG]

Yes, it is better than mostly relying on the US as earlier. But the shift has taken place towards China now. Getting hands on things that Pakistan needs is severely curtailed by the US factor. Turkish helicopter deal is one example. While choosing any equipment Pakistan has to weigh in the US factor for each and every deal. I don’t know how is that not a limiting factor with US being a major OEM for many subsystems.

China has become the big ticket weapons guy as on date for Pakistan due to US and France factor. Russians have supplied the engines. Would they do the same with other weapons? Yes, It could change tomorrow due to some change in the scenario but today the options are quite limited for Pakistan.

Money remains factor number one in that limitation. Geo-politics being the second one.

The same can be said about India as Russia was and still the main supplier of arms to India and now CATSA is hanging on India's neck. Anyway, Pakistan can and will attain technologies that they find satisfactory coming from east or west money isn't stopping them.

 

[VkdIndian]

The same can be said about India as Russia was and still the main supplier of arms to India and now CATSA is hanging on India's neck.

That’s the power of playing the game nicely. India has played it very well.

Turkey inspite of being a NATO member has been slapped with CATSA.

There are quite a few hopefuls for India also facing CATSA. But, nothing of that sort would happen with India. Thanks to China for that.

Geo-politics in play here.

Anyway, Pakistan can and will attain technologies that they find satisfactory coming from east or west money isn't stopping them.

Nobody gives technologies mate. They only sell the equipment.
Not even China.
Even for JF-17 China has only allowed 58% of the airframe work to Pakistan. I am talking of airframe here nothing fancy.

What technologies have been given to Pakistan by anyone?

All cutting edge tech have to be developed in house.

 

[Ali_Baba]

A Rafale fighter performs its flying display at the International Paris Air Show on June 17, 2019, at Le Bourget airport near Paris. (ERIC PIERMONT/AFP/Getty Images)

WARSAW, Poland — Croatia’s government has made a decision to buy 12 second-hand Rafale F3-R fighter jets from France for the country’s Air Force, Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenković said.

“The purchase of the multirole fighter aircraft will strengthen Croatia’s position as a member of NATO and a partner within the European Union. For the first time, we will reach 2 percent of the GDP allocated to strengthening our defense capabilities,” Plenković said, as quoted in a statement released by his government.

The deal is to be worth some €999 million (U.S. $1.2 billion) and, in addition to the aircraft, it will cover weapon systems, spare parts, logistics and training. Following the cabinet’s decision, Zagreb will proceed to negotiate the contract’s details with Paris.

Under the plan, France is to deliver the first six twin-engine aircraft in 2024, and the remaining six Rafales will be supplied the following year. The delivered aircraft will include 10 single-seater and two twin-seater fighter jets.

Other offers considered by Zagreb included the purchase of F-16 Block 70 aircraft from the United States, Swedish JAS-39 Gripen C/D fighter jets, and F-16C/D Block 30 aircraft from Israel. Through the acquisition, Croatia’s Air Force is aiming to replace its outdated Soviet-designed Mikoyan MiG-21 fighters.


In 2018, Croatia’s Defence Ministry announced it intended to purchase used Israeli F-16s, but in early 2019 the government scrapped the decision and re-launched the tender. Croatian officials told local media the U.S. government accused its Israeli counterpart of unfair competition in the tender.

Croatia to drop €1 billion on used Rafale fighter jets (defensenews.com)

So - another country has bought the Rafale, that Pakistan has very good relations with ...

 

[GiG]

That’s the power of playing the game nicely. India has played it very well.

Turkey inspite of being a NATO member has been slapped with CATSA.

There are quite a few hopefuls for India also facing CATSA. But, nothing of that sort would happen with India. Thanks to China for that.

Geo-politics in play here.


Nobody gives technologies mate. They only sell the equipment.
Not even China.
Even for JF-17 China has only allowed 58% of the airframe work to Pakistan. I am talking of airframe here nothing fancy.

What technologies have been given to Pakistan by anyone?

All cutting edge tech have to be developed in house.

Only Indian planners are ignorant enough to burn their own house for being a geopolitical pivot for west. This policy of US to balance China with india will be reflected by balancing Pakistan with India by China. Last time I checked India was the sick man of Asia taking aid from Africa while dreaming to be a local police man.

Regarding technology transfer all system integration as well as the software development are done in-house in Pakistan. Pakistanis can if the want integrate any western equipment with JF 17 on contrary Indian cant do that without OEM permission e.g. iderby and su30 mki integration

 

[Kingslayerr]

You are

You are an idiot if you think France will give you jets.. they control spares. Like we were controlled by USA on f16. Since you got jf17 pak is not under their pressure anymore. I live here and I know what they think about PAK. So stop shiting around.. in any war they will not give you any sparepart. This is what they do

You're comparing US with France. Comparing with US, France has a small jet building industry. They need money, you give them money they'll sell you 100+ rafales. But that time has now gone.

 

[White Lion]

@MastanKhan why did you let these Pakistani kids anger the French? Should've bought Rafales back in 2004 so we could be building up a 100+ fleet today with used and new planes. amirite?

Raat gaye baat gaye. gade murde ukhadna ka kya faidah.

 

[White Lion]

You're comparing US with France. Comparing with US, France has a small jet building industry. They need money, you give them money they'll sell you 100+ rafales. But that time has now gone.

France traditionally is opportunist they would arm both sides as long as they are getting money. Libya was offered Rafales.

UPDATE 3-Dassault source denies reported Libya Rafale order | Reuters

(Adds background, details) PARIS, Jan 14 (Reuters) - A French newspaper reported onSunday that Libya wanted to order up to 18 Rafale fighter jetsfrom France but a source close to the aircraft's maker

web.archive.org

 

[Kingslayerr]

France traditionally is opportunist they would arm both sides as long as they are getting money. Libya was offered Rafales.

UPDATE 3-Dassault source denies reported Libya Rafale order | Reuters

(Adds background, details) PARIS, Jan 14 (Reuters) - A French newspaper reported onSunday that Libya wanted to order up to 18 Rafale fighter jetsfrom France but a source close to the aircraft's maker

web.archive.org

Yes, and there's nothing bad in this. Every country is an opportunist, or should be.

 

[Cash GK]

But you need money for that.

Isn’t it?

We have tolits..do you? If you have that much money then buy orange juice for breakfast not cow p..

 

[VkdIndian]

Only Indian planners are ignorant enough to burn their own house for being a geopolitical pivot for west.

All the ignorance exists only in India and all the wisdom is restricted to Pakistan? Quite an analyst you are. Very objective and unbiased.

Last time I checked India was the sick man of Asia taking aid from Africa while dreaming to be a local police man.

I had given the link for donations to the Red Cross few posts above. Why don’t you also pay and then claim that Pakistan is also giving donations to India. You have ignored the fact about donations to the Red Cross an NGO and linked it to India makes you a troll who is not really interested in anything but trolling by picking up parts of an information.

You are quoting a donation to an NGO as donation to Indian Government. This linking is purely for the purpose of trolling and derailing an argument.
Wouldn’t work here.

Regarding technology transfer all system integration as well as the software development are done in-house in Pakistan. Pakistanis can if the want integrate any western equipment with JF 17 on contrary Indian cant do that without OEM permission e.g. iderby and su30 mki integration

Same point. Pakistan has all the capability and India has none. Repeat these words to yourself and they would sound hollow to you too.

It also clears up that you don’t really know much about what is the role of India in SU-30 MKI. There are enough threads and posts on the PDF regarding this. A little reading up may help you and not sound so uninformed.

It is not bad to have inflated opinion for oneself but everything of mine is good and everything of yours is bad is the final nail in the coffin of a meaningful analysis.

Don’t bother to answer to this message because I wouldn’t.

If you have that much money then buy orange juice for breakfast not cow p..

Everyone is free to decide what to do with his/her money.

Ohhh. I forgot that you wouldn’t know about money.
Let me know when you have some, we will help you identify what money looks like and what to do with it.

 

[Cash GK]

All the ignorance exists only in India and all the wisdom is restricted to Pakistan. Quite an analyst you are.



I had given the link for donations to the Red Cross few posts above. Why don’t you also pay and then claim that Pakistan is also giving donations to India. You have ignored the fact about donations to the Red Cross an NGO and linked it to India makes you a troll who is not really interested in anything but trolling by picking up parts of an information.


Same point.

It also clears up that you don’t really know much about what is the role of India in SU-30 MKI.

It is not bad to have inflated opinion for oneself but everything of mine is good and everything of yours is bad is the final nail in the coffin of a meaningful analysis.

Don’t bother to answer to this message because I wouldn’t.

Everyone is free to decide what to do with his/her money.

Ohhh. I forgot that you wouldn’t know about money.
Let me know when you have some, we will help you identify what money looks like and what to do with it.

But still you guys throw your dead bodies in river n die on raillnes rite while doing pee can not you buy burner to burn the bodies. When your p,m say on world forums that we are building tolits.. o

 

[VkdIndian]

But still you guys throw your dead bodies in river n die on raillnes rite while doing pee can not you buy burner to burn the bodies.

Yup. Badass people we are. We do nasty things.

When your p,m say on world forums that we are building tolits.. o

You are right again. We have accepted this fact and working towards solving it. Even your PM accepts that India is ahead in this regard.

 

[GiG]

All the ignorance exists only in India and all the wisdom is restricted to Pakistan. Quite an analyst you are.



I had given the link for donations to the Red Cross few posts above. Why don’t you also pay and then claim that Pakistan is also giving donations to India. You have ignored the fact about donations to the Red Cross an NGO and linked it to India makes you a troll who is not really interested in anything but trolling by picking up parts of an information.


Same point.

It also clears up that you don’t really know much about what is the role of India in SU-30 MKI.

It is not bad to have inflated opinion for oneself but everything of mine is good and everything of yours is bad is the final nail in the coffin of a meaningful analysis.

Don’t bother to answer to this message because I wouldn’t.

Everyone is free to decide what to do with his/her money.

Ohhh. I forgot that you wouldn’t know about money.
Let me know when you have some, we will help you identify what money looks like and what to do with it.

When you talk with facts the so-called Socrates Pajeets ran off, Pakistanis have their problems but we are critical to them not like Indians living in fools paradise

 

[VkdIndian]

When you talk with facts the so-called Socrates Pajeets ran off

Any reason for use of offensive language?

I will tell you the reason.

You tried to peddle a lie about how powerful and economically strong Pakistan is. How it can procure whatever it wants without any problem whatsoever.
The same was proven to be wrong with quite apt examples. What is wrong in not having the capabilities that you claimed that Pakistan has? Nothing in my view.

Then you shifted over to donations to Red Cross Society as donations to Indian Government. That was also found to be completely out of context and incorrect.

You examples of technical prowess of Pakistan and lack of it for India were too hollow to start with. But you went on with it and found yourself on a slippery wicket.

When nothing worked out you shifted to abusive language.

You are not to be blamed for this. Probably intolerance towards someone with a differing view is part of a culture that you come from. I am just guessing. Don’t get angry now since you lost your shirt here by your own act.

It is a very common sight with quite a lot of green flags on the PDF. As soon as an argument starts going against them first they resort to cow piss, cow dung etc. Having failed there, Pajeet becomes their favourite word. You jumped to level two straight away. Some of them continue to go down further with quite a colourful language. Let’s see where you stop?

What remains elusive all this while is a balanced, unbiased and objective analysis.

See, along with your shirt, now your pants are also coming off without the use of any abusive language.

All because you couldn’t control your emotions.

I hope rather then getting angry you would come back with better argument and no abuses.