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Crazy! Trump fires back at Beijing with threat of new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods!

deja vu again... basically last month's show in playback mode

If Trump wants a dime out of China's pocket I'm afraid he's gonna have to fight a nuclear war for it.

only question remains is how many playbacks does he need to realize that...
 
Deng said what he said in the 80's, we are now in the 21st century.
China has to stand up to US at some point, so a trade/financial war based on principal of global trade can only enhance long term global trade initiatives. We are only in initial stage of posturing despite these tariffs. I don't think Wall Street has the appetite to initiate this trade war since both China and US are so interconnected.
Fallout from global trade war would decimate wall street similar to 2008 financial crisis. Differences this time is global financial institutions will not have the resource to contain it. Individual nations, and trading blocs will struggle to contain the fallout. Chinese manufacturing and financial sector will also be major losers, but
China's financial control mechanism are strong of enough to hold its banking sector together.

IMO a trade war at this level won't trigger a 2008 financial crisis... yet... until both sides escalate this into a full blown economic war.

Beijing will hit back very hard this time,wait and see !

official response:http://news.ifeng.com/a/20180619/58788356_0.shtml

not limited by quantity but also quality.

It's nothing wrong for a singaporen to worship US like a king. But we are different!

For the good of China, let's keep out the nationalistic fervor and analyze objectively, all right?

Why did the Commerce Ministry said to retaliate 'qualitatively'? That's because like I analyzed, China can't hit back quantitatively as she imports less than $200b worth of goods and services from the US. Why do you think Trump set the line at $200b?

So China had to retaliate 'qualitatively' in other economic aspects such as investments, if she doesn't want to look bad.

And that would exactly be walking into the trap set by the US if China tries to shift the narrative into a 'qualitative' economic war. Because current China is still no match for the US in a 'qualitative' economic war where the US holds the technological and investment leverage.

We'll see what 'qualitative' retaliation the Commerce Ministry will do.
 
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Do you say that because of extensive personal experience in manufacturing? Or do you say that just to sound smart and get 'Thanks' for criticizing US?

People on this forum have been making predictions about US supposedly failure in manufacturing for yrs, and yet today, none of you predicted Trump, oil shale, exports, and now below %4 unemployment. Sure, am sure you can find lots of articles that says negative things about US manufacturing, but they are from the same crowd who also proclaimed that Obama-era high unemployment would be the norm permanently. For every negative article you can find, there is one matching positive one. How many times have people said that oil would be the downfall of America? Or China dumping US Treasuries? And so on and on...And ALL of you ended up wrong. When people with economic and finance degrees were wrong about US, why should you matter? :lol:

No offence to you Gambit, but you just proved my point. Despite the decline of manufacturing jobs, US has recovered from global financial crisis and still growing admirably. I think you should travel to China and see the scale of Chinese manufacturing(Shenzhen-Guanzhou corridor, Shanghai-Suzhou corridor, Tianjian/Beijing corridor? US still has hefty profitable heavy industrial/military capacity like Boeing, and ship building and I am not discounting that at all. But global consumer/light industry is a different beast. Profit is like 2-5% in manufacturing and only economical in massive scale. US has never produced "billions" of cell phones, microwaves, and electronics. More importantly, most of the parts are manufactured in East Asia. It's not profitable for Corporate America to rebuilt all that capacity and compete with China, Vietnam, Indonesia and other developing nations.
 
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IMO a trade war at this level won't trigger a 2008 financial crisis... yet... until both sides escalate this into a full blown economic war.



For the good of China, let's keep out the nationalistic fervor and analyze objectively, all right?

Why did the Commerce Ministry said to retaliate 'qualitatively'? That's because like I analyzed, China can't hit back quantitatively as she imports less than $200b worth of goods and services from the US. Why do you think Trump set the line at $200b?

So China had to retaliate 'qualitatively' in other economic aspects such as investments, if she doesn't want to look bad.

And that would exactly be walking into the trap set by the US if China tries to shift the narrative into a 'qualitative' economic war. Because current China is still no match for the US in a 'qualitative' economic war where the US holds the technological and investment leverage.

We'll see what 'qualitative' retaliation the Commerce Ministry will do.
CN is in chaos in 2023 like we predict. No hope to save her just by few cheap word here.

When CN collapse, VN will re unite sub Mekong and VN-RUssia will take control of Malacca as the plan since 1979.:cool:

Sing should learn VNese or Russian language instead of English from now before too late. 2023 is very short time
 
20% tariff on 100b goods would be a 'qualitative' retaliation against 10% on 200b

..or maybe targeting the trade in services which China runs a 55b deficit against US

That would still be quantitative because you can still calculate it.

Qualitative would be something like the harassment or restrictions of US businesses in China. The blocking of technology access to ZTE is also an example of qualitative power display by the US.
 
IMO a trade war at this level won't trigger a 2008 financial crisis... yet... until both sides escalate this into a full blown economic war.



For the good of China, let's keep out the nationalistic fervor and analyze objectively, all right?

Why did the Commerce Ministry said to retaliate 'qualitatively'? That's because like I analyzed, China can't hit back quantitatively as she imports less than $200b worth of goods and services from the US. Why do you think Trump set the line at $200b?

So China had to retaliate 'qualitatively' in other economic aspects such as investments, if she doesn't want to look bad.

And that would exactly be walking into the trap set by the US if China tries to shift the narrative into a 'qualitative' economic war. Because current China is still no match for the US in a 'qualitative' economic war where the US holds the technological and investment leverage.

We'll see what 'qualitative' retaliation the Commerce Ministry will do.
An example would be US Boeing aircraft or Catepillar equipment, which has high margins and high profits. Say China cancels $30 billions US aircraft and put tariffs on Catepillar, and profit is approximately usd(I am just arbitrally pulling # out of my head) $4.5 billion at 17x forward PE, net loss to US shareholders would be $76.5 billions (it's bit of an exaggeration since this would be spread over multiple years). China net profit from exports is closer to 5% versus US 15 percent, so net financial impact would be almost equal if actual full blown trade war does start. Bigger lost of course would be the financial fallout and lost of real jobs impacting everyone globally. Energy/material export driven countries would be impacted the most.
 
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CN is in chaos in 2023 like we predict. No hope to save her just by few cheap word here.

When CN collapse, VN will re unite sub Mekong and VN-RUssia will take control of Malacca as the plan since 1979.:cool:

Sing should learn VNese or Russian language instead of English from now before too late. 2023 is very short time

Why are you still not banned for excessive trolling?

An example would be US Boeing aircraft, which has high margins and high profits, which drives Boeing Stocks. Say China cancels $30 billions US aircraft, and profit is approximately usd(I am just arbitrally guessing) $4.5 billion at 17x forward PE, net loss to US Boeing shareholders would be $76.5 billions (it's bit of an exaggeration since this would be spread over multiple years). China net profit from exports is closer to 5% versus US 15 percent, so net financial impact would be almost equal if actual full blown trade war does start. Bigger lost of course would be the financial fallout and lost of real jobs impacting everyone globally. Energy/material export driven countries would be impacted the most.

Didn't China already retaliated with aircraft tariffs in the first round?
 
Who holds breath to the end is the most significant question. The way US gov't manages the issue, it has evolved into something that backing away would make one look terrible.

But, aside from appearing not so nice, another question is that the US won't be stopping short of asking for concessions. So, retaliating hard in the very beginning is the rational choice.

It is Nash Equilibrium, in which both sides cheat and no reward. Still, one side will have to win by losing relatively less.

I do not think US fundamentals are as good as portrayed. Otherwise, I do not think the US would come put so strongly and almost irrationally.

They may be in fact the desperate side. And desperation would make one commit terrible acts. The US appears deeply desperate.

***

The REAL America: 21.5% Jobless, 10% Inflation, Negative Economic Growth

"We have all seen how prices for housing, food and health care have soared in recent years. After examining what has happened in your own life, do you believe that the official inflation rates of “2 percent” and “3 percent” that we have been given in recent years are anywhere near accurate?"

Michael Snyder

Every time the mainstream media touts some “wonderful new economic numbers” I just want to cringe. Yes, it is true that the economic numbers have gotten slightly better since Donald Trump entered the White House, but the rosy economic picture that the mainstream media is constantly painting for all of us is completely absurd.

As you are about to see, if honest numbers were being used all of our major economic numbers would be absolutely terrible. Of course we can hope for a major economic turnaround for America under Donald Trump, but we certainly are not there yet. Economist John Williams of shadowstats.com has been tracking what our key economic numbers would look like if honest numbers were being used for many years, and he has gained a sterling reputation for being accurate.

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And according to him, it looks like the U.S. economy has been in a recession and/or depression for a very long time.

Let’s start by talking about unemployment. We are being told that the unemployment rate in the United States is currently “3.8 percent”, which would be the lowest that it has been “in nearly 50 years”.

To support this claim, the mainstream media endlessly runs articles declaring how wonderful everything is. For example, the following is from a recent New York Times article entitled “We Ran Out of Words to Describe How Good the Jobs Numbers Are”

The real question in analyzing the May jobs numbers released Friday is whether there are enough synonyms for “good” in an online thesaurus to describe them adequately.

So, for example, “splendid” and “excellent” fit the bill. Those are the kinds of terms that are appropriate when the United States economy adds 223,000 jobs in a month, despite being nine years into an expansion, and when the unemployment rate falls to 3.8 percent, a new 18-year low.

Doesn’t that sound great?

It would be great, if the numbers that they were using were honest.

The truth, of course, is that the percentage of the population that is employed has barely budged since the depths of the last recession. According to John Williams, if honest numbers were being used the unemployment rate would actually be 21.5 percent today.

So what is the reason for the gaping disparity?

As I have explained repeatedly, the government has simply been moving people from the “officially unemployed” category to the “not in the labor force” category for many, many years.

If we use the government’s own numbers, there are nearly 102 million working age Americans that do not have a job right now. That is higher than it was at any point during the last recession.

We are being conned. I have a friend down in south Idaho that is a highly trained software engineer that has been out of work for two years.

If the unemployment rate is really “3.8 percent”, why can’t he find a decent job?

By the way, if you live in the Boise area and you know of an opening for a quality software engineer, please let me know and I will get the information to him.

Next, let’s talk about inflation.

According to Williams, the way inflation has been calculated in this country has been repeatedly changed over the decades

Williams argues that U.S. statistical agencies overestimate GDP data by underestimating the inflation deflator they use in the calculation.

Manipulating the inflation rate, Williams argues in Public Comment on Inflation Measurement , also enables the US government to pay out pensioners less than they were promised, by fudging cost of living adjustments.

This manipulation has ironically taken place quite openly over decades, as successive Republican and Democratic administrations made “improvements” in the way they calculated the data.

If inflation was still calculated the way that it was in 1990, the inflation rate would be 6 percent today instead of about 3 percent.

And if inflation was still calculated the way that it was in 1980, the inflation rate would be about 10 percent today.

Doesn’t that “feel” more accurate to you? We have all seen how prices for housing, food and health care have soared in recent years. After examining what has happened in your own life, do you believe that the official inflation rates of “2 percent” and “3 percent” that we have been given in recent years are anywhere near accurate?

Because inflation is massively understated, that has a tremendous effect on our GDP numbers as well.

If accurate inflation numbers were being used, we would still be in a recession right now.

In fact, John Williams insists that we would still be in a recession that started back in 2004.

And without a doubt, a whole host of other more independent indicators point in that direction too. The following comes from an excellent piece by Peter Diekmeyer

Williams’ findings, while controversial, corroborate a variety of other data points. Median wage gains have been stagnant for decades. The U.S. labour force participation rate remains at multi-decade lows. Even our own light-hearted Big Mac deflator suggests that the U.S. economy is in a depression.

Another clue is to evaluate the U.S. economy just as economists would a third world nation whose data they don’t trust. They do this by resorting to figures that are hard to fudge.

There, too, by a variety of measures—ranging from petroleum consumption to consumer goods production to the Cass Freight Index—the U.S. economy appears to have not grown much, if at all, since the turn of the millennium.

In the end, all that any of us really need to do is to just open our eyes and look at what is happening all around us. We are on pace for the worst year for retail store closings in American history, and this “retail apocalypse” is hitting rural areas harder than anywhere else

This city’s Target store is gone.

So is Kmart, MC Sports, JCPenney, Vanity and soon Herberger’s, a department store.

“The mall is pretty sad,” says Amanda Cain, a teacher and mother. “Once Herberger’s closes, we’ll have no anchors.”

About two-thirds of Ottumwa’s Quincy Place Mall will be empty with Herberger’s loss.

Of course it isn’t just the U.S. economy that is troubled either.

We are living in the terminal phase of the greatest debt bubble in global history, many nations around the globe are already experiencing a very deep economic downturn, and our planet is literally in the process of dying.

So please don’t believe the hype.

Yes, we definitely hope that things will get better, but the truth is that things have not been “good” for the U.S. economy for a very, very long time.

Michael Snyder is a nationally syndicated writer, media personality and political activist. He is the author of four books including The Beginning Of The End and Living A Life That Really Matters.

Source: The Economic Collapse
 
Can you guys see the obvious? This child's play makes a trade war less likely than before.
 
That would still be quantitative because you can still calculate it.

Qualitative would be something like the harassment or restrictions of US businesses in China. The blocking of technology access to ZTE is also an example of qualitative power display by the US.

sorry I did't read the statement carefully. well I guss qualitative retaliation could mean targeting US companies which depend on profit made in the Chinese market such as Ford, P&G... or the service trade I mentioned, as lots of Chinese manufacturers hire American firms for R&D work which could easily be replaced, but here is the thing.. we somehow think targeting them could make Trump even happier because most of these firms are from west coast and typically Dem's supporters/moneybag
 
sorry I did't read the statement carefully. well I guss qualitative retaliation could mean targeting US companies which depend on profit made in the Chinese market such as Ford, P&G... or the service trade I mentioned, as lots of Chinese manufacturers hire American firms for R&D work which could easily be replaced, but here is the thing.. we somehow think targeting them could make Trump even happier because most of these firms are from west coast and typically Dem's supporters/moneybag
Full on trade war would be slash and burn. Maybe the only good thing to come out is we get rid of Trudeau, Trump, Merkle, Maduro and Bao-zi eventually.
 
IMO a trade war at this level won't trigger a 2008 financial crisis... yet... until both sides escalate this into a full blown economic war.



For the good of China, let's keep out the nationalistic fervor and analyze objectively, all right?

Why did the Commerce Ministry said to retaliate 'qualitatively'? That's because like I analyzed, China can't hit back quantitatively as she imports less than $200b worth of goods and services from the US. Why do you think Trump set the line at $200b?

So China had to retaliate 'qualitatively' in other economic aspects such as investments, if she doesn't want to look bad.

And that would exactly be walking into the trap set by the US if China tries to shift the narrative into a 'qualitative' economic war. Because current China is still no match for the US in a 'qualitative' economic war where the US holds the technological and investment leverage.

We'll see what 'qualitative' retaliation the Commerce Ministry will do.



Chinese exports to the US? nearly half of them or half of the profits were from or to US companies, EU,SK,Japan and Taiwan.

wait and see...

China as the largest trading nation on the earth will impose a currency tax on US dollars, whoever wants to trade with China but using US dollars will pay the tax.

China could sold out 100-200B US bonds in one month just for fun.

China holds too many quality cards in hand !
 
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Trump thinks China will give up on high-end technology for the current low-value profits.
Trump is too naive.

However, I understand that, as the President of the United States, Trump seems to have no other choice but to please the American people (the American people are worried and dissatisfied with China's growing strength).

Trump cannot allow US military to attack China directly. Then attack the Chinese economy.Although in terms of 250 billion U.S. dollars, this amount is negligible for the 13 trillion U.S. dollar Chinese economy.
.
 
Why are you still not banned for excessive trolling?
Trolling ?? CN is falling like I predict, Mod should ban u instead for trying to hide incoming chaos of CN

CN is falling , all ppl here should know what will happen in the near future. 2023 CN chaos is so close :cool:
 

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