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CPEC - The $50 billion question.

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CPEC is a huge opportunity for Pakistan. It could and the word is could be a game changer. The last time Pakistan had a similiar opportunity was over 50 years ago when the great Pak-American relationship bloomed. That opportunity hit the rocks and whithered away which then evolved into the intense hatred we see today. To be fair the great Pak-American relationship did leave behind some of the largest and signficant infra that even today runs Pakistan. Tarbela, Mangla dams including the multitude of canals that shifted water to the eastern rivers which India cut off post partition. We also have Islamabad city, many military cantonments like Kharian, airbases as well as decades of military hardware some of which still sustains Pak Army. For instance the Pattons and Sabres might be gone but M-1113 APC and F-16 still plod on.


The great Pak-American relationship flaundered because at heart of it there was always a major contradiction. US was a White Anglo-Saxon state with a Christian, capitalist heritage and this conflicted with vast majority of religious, conservative and narrow minded Pakistani. President Ayub Khan and his officials might well have been able to wine and dine with the Americans but that did not apply to vast majority of Pakistanis. So as more people to people contact took place the honeymoon began to flounder. It began to get irritants on both sides. As time went on this turned to resentment and rest is history. Familiarity bred contempt.


1960s Pak-American relationship.


eccf5e87d3bb1d1aedde56103590d9cb.jpg



In the present day - Pak-American relationship on the rocks.


39522492_303.jpg




Pakistan has had a 70 year relationship with the Peoples Republic of China. This friendship has been variously described as "higher then mountains and deeper then oceans". But this relationship has been limited to in the most part to officials and confined to offices and state occasions.

However with CPEC began the consolidation of that relationship which would involve mass people to people contact. The real China would meet the real Pakistan. A deeply athiest socialist society driven by consumerism with a global vision is meeting a deeply Islamic and backward society. This places the possibility of lot of stress and source of problems - possibly greater then the contradiction of the great Pak-American concord raised as the gulf is even greater between China/Pakistan in their cultures.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cpec-hurdles-challenges-trips.541730/

This is not a minor question. If the people to people contact between the hyper athiests of China and uber Islamists of Pakistan goes sour the implications are profound. So my $50 billion question. Will the increasing familiarity between Chinese and Pakistanis lead to contempt as the two opposite cultures clash, jar and crack?

I have been watching how the increased people to people contact plays and sadly there does appear to be early signs of conra-indications developing. This below is a good example.


Chinese workers thrash policemen in Khanewal


5ac4cc0bbd07d.jpg



Chinese engineers and other staffers, engaged in the construction of M4 Motorway from Bahawalpur to Faisalabad, attacked policemen deployed for their security after the foreign workers were barred from leaving their camp's premises without a security squad, DawnNewsTV reported on Wednesday.

Several mobile phone clips doing rounds on social media show Chinese nationals approaching the police officials in a provocative manner and attacking them. A video showed a Chinese national standing on the bonnet of a police van, another video showed several Chinese nationals trashing policemen and some local people in plain clothes.

Screenshot shows a Chinese national standing on the bonnet of a police van.— DawnNewsTV


According to police officials, Chinese engineers and other officials wanted to leave their camp in Khanewal and visit a "red-light" area on Tuesday night. They resorted to agitation when denied permission to leave the camp without being accompanied by security officials.

Later, the Chinese engineers also cut power supply to the police camp established within the main construction camp, the officials added.

On Wednesday morning, the Chinese workers stopped work on the project and abandoned heavy machinery and vehicles on various roads in the area. They also resorted to violence and attacked police in their camp.

Subsequently, the protesting Chinese engineers wrote a letter to Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, claiming that police officials refrained them from performing their duties and attacked them.

They also accused the security in-charge of attempting to hit the Chinese workers with his vehicle. Police officials, however, rejected the accusations and said they were fabricated.

Later in the day, Khanewal DPO Rizwan Omer Gondal held a meeting with the protesting Chinese workers following which they agreed to open the blocked roads.

Meanwhile, the police officials made it clear to the Chinese engineers that they will not be allowed to leave their camp without security arrangements.

This was not the first time when Chinese nationals in Pakistan attacked local police. In 2016, a clash occurred between the police and Chinese workers as the latter insisted on staying at a construction camp at night, but the former opposed the idea due to security reasons.

According to media reports, citing sources, some Chinese nationals associated with the Chinese army and trained in martial arts had attacked and injured police personnel deployed for their security.

However, the police had avoided taking any legal action against the Chinese to avert further conflict. In fact, the then CPO had suspended three SHOs and six other policemen for not restraining themselves from a clash.




https://www.dawn.com/news/1399531/chinese-workers-thrash-policemen-in-khanewal
 
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CPEC is a huge opportunity for Pakistan. It could and the word is could be a game changer. The last time Pakistan had a similiar opportunity was over 50 years ago when the great Pak-American relationship bloomed. That opportunity hit the rocks and whithered away which then evolved into the intense hatred we see today. To be fair the great Pak-American relationship did leave behind some of the largest and signficant infra that even today runs Pakistan. Tarbela, Mangla dams including the multitude of canals that shifted water to the eastern rivers which India cut off post partition. We also have Islamabad city, many military cantonments like Kharian, airbases as well as decades of military hardware some of which still sustains Pak Army. For instance the Pattons and Sabres might be gone but M-1113 APC and F-16 still plod on.


The great Pak-American relationship flaundered because at heart of it there was always a major contradiction. US was a White Anglo-Saxon state with a Christian, capitalist heritage and this conflicted with vast majority of religious, conservative and narrow minded Pakistani. President Ayub Khan and his officials might well have been able to wine and dine with the Americans but that did not apply to vast majority of Pakistanis. So as more people to people contact took place the honeymoon began to flounder. It began to get irritants on both sides. As time went on this turned to resentment and rest is history. Familiarity bred contempt.


1960s Pak-American relationship.


eccf5e87d3bb1d1aedde56103590d9cb.jpg



In the present day - Pak-American relationship on the rocks.


39522492_303.jpg




Pakistan has had a 70 year relationship with the Peoples Republic of China. This friendship has been variously described as "higher then mountains and deeper then oceans". But this relationship has been limited to in the most part to officials and confined to offices and state occasions.

However with CPEC began the consolidation of that relationship which would involve mass people to people contact. The real China would meet the real Pakistan. A deeply athiest socialist society driven by consumerism with a global vision is meeting a deeply Islamic and backward society. This places the possibility of lot of stress and source of problems - possibly greater then the contradiction of the great Pak-American concord raised as the gulf is even greater between China/Pakistan in their cultures.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cpec-hurdles-challenges-trips.541730/

This is not a minor question. If the people to people contact between the hyper athiests of China and uber Islamists of Pakistan goes sour the implications are profound. So my $50 billion question. Will the increasing familiarity between Chinese and Pakistanis lead to contempt as the two opposite cultures clash, jar and crack?

I have been watching how the increased people to people contact plays and sadly there does appear to be early signs of conra-indications developing. This below is a good example.


Chinese workers thrash policemen in Khanewal


5ac4cc0bbd07d.jpg



Chinese engineers and other staffers, engaged in the construction of M4 Motorway from Bahawalpur to Faisalabad, attacked policemen deployed for their security after the foreign workers were barred from leaving their camp's premises without a security squad, DawnNewsTV reported on Wednesday.

Several mobile phone clips doing rounds on social media show Chinese nationals approaching the police officials in a provocative manner and attacking them. A video showed a Chinese national standing on the bonnet of a police van, another video showed several Chinese nationals trashing policemen and some local people in plain clothes.

Screenshot shows a Chinese national standing on the bonnet of a police van.— DawnNewsTV


According to police officials, Chinese engineers and other officials wanted to leave their camp in Khanewal and visit a "red-light" area on Tuesday night. They resorted to agitation when denied permission to leave the camp without being accompanied by security officials.

Later, the Chinese engineers also cut power supply to the police camp established within the main construction camp, the officials added.

On Wednesday morning, the Chinese workers stopped work on the project and abandoned heavy machinery and vehicles on various roads in the area. They also resorted to violence and attacked police in their camp.

Subsequently, the protesting Chinese engineers wrote a letter to Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, claiming that police officials refrained them from performing their duties and attacked them.

They also accused the security in-charge of attempting to hit the Chinese workers with his vehicle. Police officials, however, rejected the accusations and said they were fabricated.

Later in the day, Khanewal DPO Rizwan Omer Gondal held a meeting with the protesting Chinese workers following which they agreed to open the blocked roads.

Meanwhile, the police officials made it clear to the Chinese engineers that they will not be allowed to leave their camp without security arrangements.

This was not the first time when Chinese nationals in Pakistan attacked local police. In 2016, a clash occurred between the police and Chinese workers as the latter insisted on staying at a construction camp at night, but the former opposed the idea due to security reasons.

According to media reports, citing sources, some Chinese nationals associated with the Chinese army and trained in martial arts had attacked and injured police personnel deployed for their security.

However, the police had avoided taking any legal action against the Chinese to avert further conflict. In fact, the then CPO had suspended three SHOs and six other policemen for not restraining themselves from a clash.




https://www.dawn.com/news/1399531/chinese-workers-thrash-policemen-in-khanewal
The Pak-US relationship was bound to fail as those who control the US have utter arrogance towards others.
 
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Have them reported to Chinese state show video as proof. maybe they need to drink more cold water pak is a hot country. Builders and hard laborers have bad temper in pak, they have always have one thing in mind it is hot, i need cold drink and women.
 
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The Pak-US relationship was bound to fail as those who control the US have utter arrogance towards others.
With respect if only it was that simple. While there is more then shred of truth with the 'arrogance' but all great powers display element of hubris.

Furthermore this 'arrogance' did not trip the Turks, South Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese etc in forming a relationship with USA during the Cold War era and then leveraging that to success. And further these countries despite some rivalry are deeply ensconced within the US led geo-political architecture. Take for instance Turkey a Muslim country that continues to be a fulcrum of NATO and other US led western organizations.

Then you have Vietnam. A country that saw the most US arrogance visited on it and lost millions of it's citizens in what was a genocide of the Vietnames people. Yet that country toay has rolled into US camp and is fast developing and is on road to being another Asian tiger.
 
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With respect if only it was that simple. While there is more then shred of truth with the 'arrogance' but all great powers display element of hubris.

Furthermore this 'arrogance' did not trip the Turks, South Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese etc in forming a relationship with USA during the Cold War era and then leveraging that to success. And further these countries despite some rivalry are deeply ensconced within the US led geo-political architecture. Take for instance Turkey a Muslim country that continues to be a fulcrum of NATO and other US led western organizations.

Then you have Vietnam. A country that saw the most US arrogance visited on it and lost millions of it's citizens in what was a genocide of the Vietnames people. Yet that country toay has rolled into US camp and is fast developing and is on road to being another Asian tiger.
Oh I forgot, Pakistan has a high concentration of "coconuts" and Mir Jafirs. I think those who study this subject will find this concentration to be an extreme outlier (!)
 
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Oh I forgot, Pakistan has a high concentration of "coconuts" and Mir Jafirs. I think those who study this subject will find this concentration to be an extreme outlier (!)
I am lost with this post? How does Mir Jaffer [who had zero impact on the region that is now Pakistan as it was under Sikh rule prior to British arrivel in 1849] and coconut fit into this discussion?
 
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I am lost with this post? How does Mir Jaffer [who had zero impact on the region that is now Pakistan as it was under Sikh rule prior to British arrivel in 1849] and coconut fit into this discussion?
So I meant that Pakistan is full of traitors et al who would rather promote others' interests at the expense of Pakistan. I don't think Turkey or Vietnam have such a high concentration of these wretches...

As in this is a factor in this equation...
 
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his places the possibility of lot of stress and source of problems - possibly greater then the contradiction of the great Pak-American concord raised as the gulf is even greater between China/Pakistan in their cultures.
That is true sir and thats why sometimes Pak-China friendship boggles my mind.

The Americans while having a different culture and religion were not atheists. The western civilization has had contact with Muslim world(albeit mostly contentious) for most of the last millennia. So they understood some of our sensitivities. That coupled with the fact that US is the most religiously conservative country in the west and our religious conservatism worked as a bulwark against communism, made our alliance work. In the 50's, US embassy in Karachi used to distribute copies of Koran translated into urdu, so for most part of our alliance they not only cherished our conservatism but also worked to keep us that way.

Now with the Chinese it is totally different. For most part of the last millennia, the middle kingdom stayed isolated from rest of the world. And when they finally opened up, they became Maoist. Now they view everything from a materialistic POV where spirituality has no place.

During the cultural revolution for example, the Muslims were forced to raise pigs instead of goats, as pigs produced more meat than their herds of goats. And mosques were used for this very purpose. And this was not done because Chinese had a bias against Muslims or Islam, but to change the culture and destroy stereotypes that according to them were holding back the economic growth of that community.

Now these people are coming to Pakistan. A nation that was created on the basis of a spiritual identity. Where the military calls its operations holy war. Where land reforms were not implemented because according to clergy that is against the religion. Where DNA testing for rape cases is a contentious topic as some of the clergy is not ready to accept it. Where one is liable to death punishment for blasphemy. Where most people(including myself) avoid taking loans from the bank because of the Riba.

For any outsider, especially one with a materialistic POV will find all of this as hindrance to growth and will be appalled by it.
 
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I think Protection of Engineer is 100% important and Police office did the correct thing he has to protect engineers

Some internal Investigation is due to understand view point of both parties , lack of commnication skill or language barrier may have contributed to issue
 
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@Sharpshooter12 Thank you. That was a great post. You laid bare the inherent contradictions between Pak and Chinese culture/socities that risk unravelling CPEC. Lest we forget in 1950s/60s the pak/American friendship carried hope that mirror if not exceed CPEC today. My dad's first job was with a American construction company in 1950s and he tells me that there were banners everywhere of the US and Pak flags in form of two hands clenched together. Tarbela/Mangla Dams were megaprojects the likes of which we have not seen in Pakistan since then.
 
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:pop::pop::pop::fie:

The Pak-US relationship was bound to fail as those who control the US have utter arrogance towards others.
Such people can't comprehend that. Let him pedal the illogical conspiracy theories and grab some popcorns
 
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Lol agreed. He just gave Vietnam as an example to follow. Its like some people cannot see beyond money and wasp validation.
Actually we need to get rid of these libturds if we want to progress and rather stay independent. If our ancestors recognised the Mir Jafer and Mir Sadek and got rid of them, perhaps the history of the subcontinent would have been different.
 
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