Court ruling challenges India's caste system

[Communist]

First of all, Indian members before discrediting the news report, think twice, because this is from India's one leading news paper source.

Court ruling challenges India's caste system

A landmark legal ruling which granted India's downtrodden 'untouchables' the right to defend their reputations has been hailed as a symbolic victory for the country's lower castes.

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi
Last Updated: 10:51PM GMT 17 Mar 2009

An appeal court judge in Jammu and Kashmir decided that all Indians were worthy of respect and entitled to a good reputation regardless of their wealth or social status.

The ruling amounts to a direct challenge to India's caste-focused society in which attacks on 'untouchables' or dalits because of their 'polluting presence' are common.

There are cases of dalits killed for daring to drink water from the same well as their caste 'superiors' or to complain when their daughters are raped.

Against this background, the ruling has been hailed as revolutionary.

Mushtaq Ahmed Mir, an unemployed man from Kupwara, decided to sue the Kashmiri newspaper Tameel-i-Irshad after it published a false report claiming he was a defendant in a murder case. He had asked the judge to waive the court fee in the case because he was too poor to pay it.

The judge threw out his case with a ruling that the poor did not have reputations which could be damaged in newspaper reports.

"When the plaintiff is not even in a position to pay the lawsuit fee, he cannot seek damages for defamation, " Judge Nazir Ahmed Fida said. "The dignity of a person of low integrity will not be lowered further in case his name appears in a defamatory piece of news."

Mr Mir's lawyer said he was shocked by the decision, made despite the judge's acknowledgement that the news report was untrue, and launched an immediate appeal.

In his appeal ruling, High Court Judge Muzaffar Hussain Attar reprimanded the original trial judge and said his ruling had been "offensive to conscience." "The respect and reputation of a person is not dependent upon how much wealth he has accumulated," he said. If only the rich were entitled to respect "a great disservice will be done to society," he added.

Supreme court lawyer Zafar Shah last night welcomed the ruling which he said had narrowed the gap between the equal rights promised to every Indian in the country's constitution and the reality where "the respect and dignity of a person is determined by [his] economic and social status."

Leading social commentator Pavan K Varma said the ruling heralded "the beginning of change." "To say that someone who is poor can't have status reflects the mindset of another century, but old attitudes die hard. That the appeals judge threw out the ruling means there's a beginning of change. I'm not surprised that [the judgment] was overruled. That's the significance. Caste is now standing on its head," he said.

Dalit leader Dr Udit Raj however said while the ruling was "revolutionary" and a "symbolic victory" for the poor and low-castes, the reality in India was closer to the original trial judge's ruling.

"It's impossible for the poor, minorities and low castes to get justice. The trial judge should be dismissed, but his ruling is closer to reality. There is some way to go before dalits get the respect they're entitled to under the constitution. Our people are hypocrites," he said.


Court ruling challenges India's caste system - Telegraph

 

[India_loves_peace]

Court ruling challenges India's caste system

A landmark legal ruling which granted India's downtrodden 'untouchables' the right to defend their reputations has been hailed as a symbolic victory for the country's lower castes.

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi
Last Updated: 10:51PM GMT 17 Mar 2009

An appeal court judge in Jammu and Kashmir decided that all Indians were worthy of respect and entitled to a good reputation regardless of their wealth or social status.

The ruling amounts to a direct challenge to India's caste-focused society in which attacks on 'untouchables' or dalits because of their 'polluting presence' are common.

There are cases of dalits killed for daring to drink water from the same well as their caste 'superiors' or to complain when their daughters are raped.

Against this background, the ruling has been hailed as revolutionary.

Mushtaq Ahmed Mir, an unemployed man from Kupwara, decided to sue the Kashmiri newspaper Tameel-i-Irshad after it published a false report claiming he was a defendant in a murder case. He had asked the judge to waive the court fee in the case because he was too poor to pay it.

The judge threw out his case with a ruling that the poor did not have reputations which could be damaged in newspaper reports.

"When the plaintiff is not even in a position to pay the lawsuit fee, he cannot seek damages for defamation, " Judge Nazir Ahmed Fida said. "The dignity of a person of low integrity will not be lowered further in case his name appears in a defamatory piece of news."

Mr Mir's lawyer said he was shocked by the decision, made despite the judge's acknowledgement that the news report was untrue, and launched an immediate appeal.

In his appeal ruling, High Court Judge Muzaffar Hussain Attar reprimanded the original trial judge and said his ruling had been "offensive to conscience." "The respect and reputation of a person is not dependent upon how much wealth he has accumulated," he said. If only the rich were entitled to respect "a great disservice will be done to society," he added.

Supreme court lawyer Zafar Shah last night welcomed the ruling which he said had narrowed the gap between the equal rights promised to every Indian in the country's constitution and the reality where "the respect and dignity of a person is determined by [his] economic and social status."

Leading social commentator Pavan K Varma said the ruling heralded "the beginning of change." "To say that someone who is poor can't have status reflects the mindset of another century, but old attitudes die hard. That the appeals judge threw out the ruling means there's a beginning of change. I'm not surprised that [the judgment] was overruled. That's the significance. Caste is now standing on its head," he said.

Dalit leader Dr Udit Raj however said while the ruling was "revolutionary" and a "symbolic victory" for the poor and low-castes, the reality in India was closer to the original trial judge's ruling.

"It's impossible for the poor, minorities and low castes to get justice. The trial judge should be dismissed, but his ruling is closer to reality. There is some way to go before dalits get the respect they're entitled to under the constitution. Our people are hypocrites," he said.





same news different view....
Communist has got the rotten mentality of hatred ...
It is accepted that we had caste system ...and in rural India its still there...
But the real reason for the caste based politics we have ...and the poverty , illiteracy & ignorance among large rural population.
Now as you can see our constitution and law has that power to give victory to low caste people ...
India has changed dramatically and we are proud that caste system is eliminated from cities...

Now read the news and take the points I highlighted ....
Aren't there any change ...there is ...

but my bro communist has different goals ...just to spread hatred and what he gets from posting these derrogatory post is "enemies" . Pls come with constructive criticism ..

 

[jetLi]

Court ruling challenges India's caste system

A landmark legal ruling which granted India's downtrodden 'untouchables' the right to defend their reputations has been hailed as a symbolic victory for the country's lower castes.

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi
Last Updated: 10:51PM GMT 17 Mar 2009

An appeal court judge in Jammu and Kashmir decided that all Indians were worthy of respect and entitled to a good reputation regardless of their wealth or social status.

The ruling amounts to a direct challenge to India's caste-focused society in which attacks on 'untouchables' or dalits because of their 'polluting presence' are common.

There are cases of dalits killed for daring to drink water from the same well as their caste 'superiors' or to complain when their daughters are raped.

Against this background, the ruling has been hailed as revolutionary.

Mushtaq Ahmed Mir, an unemployed man from Kupwara, decided to sue the Kashmiri newspaper Tameel-i-Irshad after it published a false report claiming he was a defendant in a murder case. He had asked the judge to waive the court fee in the case because he was too poor to pay it.

The judge threw out his case with a ruling that the poor did not have reputations which could be damaged in newspaper reports.

"When the plaintiff is not even in a position to pay the lawsuit fee, he cannot seek damages for defamation, " Judge Nazir Ahmed Fida said. "The dignity of a person of low integrity will not be lowered further in case his name appears in a defamatory piece of news."

Mr Mir's lawyer said he was shocked by the decision, made despite the judge's acknowledgement that the news report was untrue, and launched an immediate appeal.

In his appeal ruling, High Court Judge Muzaffar Hussain Attar reprimanded the original trial judge and said his ruling had been "offensive to conscience." "The respect and reputation of a person is not dependent upon how much wealth he has accumulated," he said. If only the rich were entitled to respect "a great disservice will be done to society," he added.

Supreme court lawyer Zafar Shah last night welcomed the ruling which he said had narrowed the gap between the equal rights promised to every Indian in the country's constitution and the reality where "the respect and dignity of a person is determined by [his] economic and social status."

Leading social commentator Pavan K Varma said the ruling heralded "the beginning of change." "To say that someone who is poor can't have status reflects the mindset of another century, but old attitudes die hard. That the appeals judge threw out the ruling means there's a beginning of change. I'm not surprised that [the judgment] was overruled. That's the significance. Caste is now standing on its head," he said.

Dalit leader Dr Udit Raj however said while the ruling was "revolutionary" and a "symbolic victory" for the poor and low-castes, the reality in India was closer to the original trial judge's ruling.

"It's impossible for the poor, minorities and low castes to get justice. The trial judge should be dismissed, but his ruling is closer to reality. There is some way to go before dalits get the respect they're entitled to under the constitution. Our people are hypocrites," he said.





same news different view....
Communist has got the rotten mentality of hatred ...
It is accepted that we had caste system ...and in rural India its still there...
But the real reason for the caste based politics we have ...and the poverty , illiteracy & ignorance among large rural population.
Now as you can see our constitution and law has that power to give victory to low caste people ...
India has changed dramatically and we are proud that caste system is eliminated from cities...

Now read the news and take the points I highlighted ....
Aren't there any change ...there is ...

but my bro communist has different goals ...just to spread hatred and what he gets from posting these derrogatory post is "enemies" . Pls come with constructive criticism ..

But you have large scale slum in cities.
It's a new way of casting system

 

[Khajur]

First of all, Indian members before discrediting the news report, think twice, because this is from India's one leading news paper source.

Court ruling challenges India's caste system

A landmark legal ruling which granted India's downtrodden 'untouchables' the right to defend their reputations has been hailed as a symbolic victory for the country's lower castes.

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi
Last Updated: 10:51PM GMT 17 Mar 2009

An appeal court judge in Jammu and Kashmir decided that all Indians were worthy of respect and entitled to a good reputation regardless of their wealth or social status.

The ruling amounts to a direct challenge to India's caste-focused society in which attacks on 'untouchables' or dalits because of their 'polluting presence' are common.

There are cases of dalits killed for daring to drink water from the same well as their caste 'superiors' or to complain when their daughters are raped.

Against this background, the ruling has been hailed as revolutionary.

Mushtaq Ahmed Mir, an unemployed man from Kupwara, decided to sue the Kashmiri newspaper Tameel-i-Irshad after it published a false report claiming he was a defendant in a murder case. He had asked the judge to waive the court fee in the case because he was too poor to pay it.

The judge threw out his case with a ruling that the poor did not have reputations which could be damaged in newspaper reports.

"When the plaintiff is not even in a position to pay the lawsuit fee, he cannot seek damages for defamation, " Judge Nazir Ahmed Fida said. "The dignity of a person of low integrity will not be lowered further in case his name appears in a defamatory piece of news."

Mr Mir's lawyer said he was shocked by the decision, made despite the judge's acknowledgement that the news report was untrue, and launched an immediate appeal.

In his appeal ruling, High Court Judge Muzaffar Hussain Attar reprimanded the original trial judge and said his ruling had been "offensive to conscience." "The respect and reputation of a person is not dependent upon how much wealth he has accumulated," he said. If only the rich were entitled to respect "a great disservice will be done to society," he added.

Supreme court lawyer Zafar Shah last night welcomed the ruling which he said had narrowed the gap between the equal rights promised to every Indian in the country's constitution and the reality where "the respect and dignity of a person is determined by [his] economic and social status."

Leading social commentator Pavan K Varma said the ruling heralded "the beginning of change." "To say that someone who is poor can't have status reflects the mindset of another century, but old attitudes die hard. That the appeals judge threw out the ruling means there's a beginning of change. I'm not surprised that [the judgment] was overruled. That's the significance. Caste is now standing on its head," he said.

Dalit leader Dr Udit Raj however said while the ruling was "revolutionary" and a "symbolic victory" for the poor and low-castes, the reality in India was closer to the original trial judge's ruling.

"It's impossible for the poor, minorities and low castes to get justice. The trial judge should be dismissed, but his ruling is closer to reality. There is some way to go before dalits get the respect they're entitled to under the constitution. Our people are hypocrites," he said.


Court ruling challenges India's caste system - Telegraph

I dont know if want to say what the hell or wtf...

I dont know who should i curse, the STUPID telegraph columnist or this fellow named communist??

The court case on which column is based up on has nothing to do with indian caste system who is part hindu religion..

Here the plaintiff who is a muslim who filed a defamation case aganist Kashmiri newspaper Tameel-i-Irshad .Every one involved in the case are muslims including the judges and the lawyers,all belong to muslim majority state of kashmir.

So whats the point of bringing in hindu caste system in this dispute between muslims??

yes,the judgement is remarkable in the sense it set aside the plaintiff's poor financial status while considering the merit of his defamation suit.But then again the judgement no where talks anything about hindu caste system of india.

And remember,according to indian constitution every one must be treated equal irrespective of cast,creed,race,religion and gender.

"First of all, Indian members before discrediting the news report, think twice, because this is from India's one leading news paper source."

Check again u moron its not indian , its 'Telegraph' newspaper of UK.

 

[Unbeliever]

Apart from this shady article and the starting post:

Do you agree "Kajur" and "India loves Peace" that the caste system is basically still in place in many villages in India and in general outside of the big cities?

I have read a little bit about this issue and I would even say I am not sure If complete abolition at this point would really be a purely good or rather helpful thing. I think India has to prepare itself for some massive social conflict if that happens (because everybody is equal means everybody will want a piece of the wealth).
A billion people are not easily controlled and as far as I understand the caste system plays or played a major role in that effort to keep social tensions to a minimum, because in addition to the massive religious tensions they would really hurt India.
I'm not saying the caste system is a good thing and it is a great progress that it is officially abolished (for many years now), but maybe it is somewhat necessary in practice at least for the next 10-20 years?

Kajur and India loves peace (or any other Indians) I would appreciate your perspective.

 

[Communist]

I dont know who should i curse, the STUPID telegraph columnist or this fellow named communist??


Check again u moron its not indian , its 'Telegraph' newspaper of UK.

Hey, How dare you call me moron? What is your qualification? What is your caste? What is your father's occupation? What is your family status?

And do not think, people who are against Hinduism cannot be Brahmins.

You think, you have a freehand to insult others just because you present yourself as an Indian member. Constantly you people are insulting me. Enough. Another Indian member named godsavetheworld has also insulted me. Everything has a limit. See what godsavetheworld remarked.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...involved-gang-rape-post333011.html#post333011

I want to draw attention of the mods in this regard and want to see the impartial judgement.

 

[Proud2Indian]

Apart from this shady article and the starting post:

Do you agree "Kajur" and "India loves Peace" that the caste system is basically still in place in many villages in India and in general outside of the big cities?

I have read a little bit about this issue and I would even say I am not sure If complete abolition at this point would really be a purely good or rather helpful thing. I think India has to prepare itself for some massive social conflict if that happens (because everybody is equal means everybody will want a piece of the wealth).
A billion people are not easily controlled and as far as I understand the caste system plays or played a major role in that effort to keep social tensions to a minimum, because in addition to the massive religious tensions they would really hurt India.
I'm not saying the caste system is a good thing and it is a great progress that it is officially abolished (for many years now), but maybe it is somewhat necessary in practice at least for the next 10-20 years?

Kajur and India loves peace (or any other Indians) I would appreciate your perspective.

I am not sure what your point when you says it help in keeping social tension in check...if we go through social revolution which basically mean forcing the people...it will be harmful...we are trying for years to oblish this system...but you cannt expect people to change overnight..we are eraditcating this by educating people ......


tx

 

[rubyjackass]

Apart from this shady article and the starting post:

Do you agree "Kajur" and "India loves Peace" that the caste system is basically still in place in many villages in India and in general outside of the big cities?

I have read a little bit about this issue and I would even say I am not sure If complete abolition at this point would really be a purely good or rather helpful thing. I think India has to prepare itself for some massive social conflict if that happens (because everybody is equal means everybody will want a piece of the wealth).
A billion people are not easily controlled and as far as I understand the caste system plays or played a major role in that effort to keep social tensions to a minimum, because in addition to the massive religious tensions they would really hurt India.
I'm not saying the caste system is a good thing and it is a great progress that it is officially abolished (for many years now), but maybe it is somewhat necessary in practice at least for the next 10-20 years?

Kajur and India loves peace (or any other Indians) I would appreciate your perspective.

You need to understand the difference between caste system being present and caste system being used for discrimination.

People cannot overnight forget what caste they belong to. Especially if there are reservations based castes, the caste system is going to survive. If you want reservation you need to remember your caste.
That is why many people are against reservations and in favor of strengthening education and infrastructure as basic level.

Morover we have the politicians who exploit castes to get into power. THis is the most serious concern. So people can in no way forget caste system in the near future. All we can work on is the discrimination part.

Discrimination is still there in rural and backward places but.

 

[notsuperstitious]

The aggrieved party - a muslim, the first judge - a muslim the second judge a muslim.

the tags - hindu torture, hindu untouchability

Mods, does such low quality flame baiting add to this forum? if yes, i presume u'll also allow similar posts against pakistan?

To all others, pls consider if its worth discussing the same same same thing on a different thread with the same person who is least interested in listening to what u have to say. u can tell him abt the status of caste system in vedas, that caste is not by birth etc etc,that social evils like racism, slavery, serfdom, intolerance, apartheid, child marriage, black magic, incest etc etc are everywhere and not sanctioned by religion etc etc but tomorrow u'll find another post on the same topic by the same person. i think we just contribute to degrading the forum by responding. ur call.

 

[Communist]

^^^^^ Those who are already in denial to accept the harsh truth about Hinduism and those who regard themselves as research scholars on this disgusting Caste system, always try to mislead people. My brothers and sisters, who do not support Hindu caste system, please ask those people, whether a Hindu can be a Hindu without any caste identity which is reflected from her/his surname. Why not a Brahmin then can become an OBC? I am sure, they will not answer you to the point. The fact is that Hindus do not want to accept because it unmasks their Hinduism, Caste identity still persists in india. Caste started as a pure racism, because High castes were regarded as Dwija or twice born who have blue blood in them in terms of Varna or color. So Dwijas used to call others Mlechchas or Yavanas which meant those who are not Hindus like Muslims and they cannot be touched or absorbed into the society. In Indian text books, Sultanate and Mughal rulers are depicted as Mlechchas. Dwijas used to call the slaves as Shudras and natives or tribals as Antajwajas or untouchables who are now called Dalits. Now we need to look at the caste system and caste as Hindu identity against this backdrop.



What was emphasized in the report is the caste system which derived from Hinduism. The report shows the evil aspects of the caste system which has always been an integral part of Hinduism. Here no individual identities, as Muslim or Hindu can be taken into consideration. I hope the mods have the understanding of the focal point of the report and particularly after reading the headline of the article. If still Indian members have any objection to the tags, well, tags can be deleted if necessary.

 

[Gabbar]

If you actually check Communists posts you will know exaclty Fateh71 is talking about.
Communist constently changes the thread to anti-India, hindu bashing thread regardless of the topic of thread. We dont have problem discussing this issue but it appears if not in every, definetly in most of Communist's thread. May be should just open a new thread just for caste system so we dont have to read same thing over and over again in every post.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

The Indian caste system is a racist system which cannot remain in this shape. If India wants to be modern and develop further, it has to abandon it and establish a real democracy. If done so, there are good chances

 

[Bane Blade]

I must ask though that if Zoroastrionism is given equal status in India or is it still not allowed to be preached openly?

 

[DarkStar]

Flame baiting and trolling will not be permitted.

Jet Li, Communist, Khajur and anyone else. If you carry on like this, in this or any other thread, you will not last long.

No matter what the provocation, all flame baiting, and flaming will be dealt with harshly.

Infractions and Bannings will be issued. THIS IS A WARNING.

 

[DarkStar]

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with discussing Bharat's caste system, as long as it is done in a civil manner, and No One is allowed to bash anyone else, nor their religion (This does not mean religious practice cannot be criticised, but must be done in a way that does not cause offense). Do not attack the messenger, but tackle the message.