Could Washington Support Balochistan separatism?

[DJ_Viper]

Rich coming from a State that had & has foreign policies with drastic outcomes & has not won any war or atleast not that i can think of.

You apply your India centric mind on every issue. There is no such thing as "winning a war". In Pakistan, children are taught in schools how Pakistan won 1965 war and the 1971 war and that India "attacked" a peaceful nation at "sleep". LOL, it's hilarious but is it the truth? Neither is. Pakistan started the 1965 war with air attacks. The war wasn't "won" by anyone, but the UN and many other countries brokered peace and ceasefire. Not to mention, there wasn't much ammo left to fight. Similarly, in 1971, Pakistan got cut in half. I'm explaining this so your flawed way of thinking can be fixed. Similarly, the Kargil issue was stopped from India making an all out war, by Pakistan's Middle Eastern friends and finally, the US. In these context I provided, has Pakistan really won anything? What power is it that takes you to a conflict, ONLY to beg your friends and partners to get you out of it when the opposite side is about to go full strength? I wrote this post only to let you see your flawed thinking and wrong sense of superiority.

Today's wars aren't "fought" to win, unless you are willing to crush the last man standing and that won't happen, simply the human toll would be insane in any conflict. You go to a conflict to achieve certain objectives. When those are done, you negotiate.

Similarly, when an operation goes back, we shut it down. No sweat!

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan is not some sacred land but a gift to its people by Allah - but unless they take care of it through honesty and of each other, I’m certain Allah will take it away while they keep blaming foreign powers.

 

[Amaa'n]

You apply your India centric mind on every issue. There is no such thing as "winning a war". In Pakistan, children are taught in schools how Pakistan won 1965 war and the 1971 war and that India "attacked" a peaceful nation at "sleep". LOL, it's hilarious but is it the truth? Neither is. Pakistan started the 1965 war with air attacks. The war wasn't "won" by anyone, but the UN and many other countries brokered peace and ceasefire. Not to mention, there wasn't much ammo left to fight. Similarly, in 1971, Pakistan got cut in half. I'm explaining this so your flawed way of thinking can be fixed. Similarly, the Kargil issue was stopped from India making an all out war, by Pakistan's Middle Eastern friends and finally, the US. In these context I provided, has Pakistan really won anything? What power is it that takes you to a conflict, ONLY to beg your friends and partners to get you out of it when the opposite side is about to go full strength? I wrote this post only to let you see your flawed thinking and wrong sense of superiority.

Today's wars aren't "fought" to win, unless you are willing to crush the last man standing and that won't happen, simply the human toll would be insane in any conflict. You go to a conflict to achieve certain objectives. When those are done, you negotiate.

Similarly, when an operation goes back, we shut it down. No sweat!

I got busy so could not continue this conversation.
Let me take a step back here & will do best to stay on topic as much as possible.

In today's world Wars are being fought not to win or loss but to achieve Objectives. Either you achieve your objective or you don't achieve. Your success will be determined on the outcome of those too.

US went into Afghanistan to achieve a specific Objective, did they accomplished that ? #AbsolutelyNot

Under the cloak of War on Terror, US Spec Ops attempted to run their mini Intelligence operation in Pakistan without nudge from Islamabad. Did they accomplish that objective? #AbsolutelyNot.

US left South Asia in the dark hours of night with allied leaders chanting names, not sure where the author of this article got the balls to come up with hideous idea

*

 

[DJ_Viper]

I got busy so could not continue this conversation.
Let me take a step back here & will do best to stay on topic as much as possible.

In today's world Wars are being fought not to win or loss but to achieve Objectives. Either you achieve your objective or you don't achieve. Your success will be determined on the outcome of those too.

US went into Afghanistan to achieve a specific Objective, did they accomplished that ? #AbsolutelyNot

Under the cloak of War on Terror, US Spec Ops attempted to run their mini Intelligence operation in Pakistan without nudge from Islamabad. Did they accomplish that objective? #AbsolutelyNot.

US left South Asia in the dark hours of night with allied leaders chanting names, not sure where the author of this article got the balls to come up with hideous idea

Your title says "staff" so I'd think you'd make very solid points. Let me cover two small one's and then the more important one.

The US did everything inside Pakistan with the permissions of the dictator you guys had back in 2002 onwards. In fact, it surprised the US how much open access was provided to us. Usually these things are negotiated.
Second, for operational safety, including your own Army's ops, or Indian army's surgical strikes into Pakistan not too long ago, the night time is considered the best and the safest, especially if your enemy doesn't have night vision stuff. Even then, it's considered safer and full of surprises.

No 3: It doesn't matter to the US what you or some emotional upset media personnel think on TV whether in India or Pakistan or in the US. We took out OBL, the mission was achieved then but for supporting the local Afghan population we stayed there. That was above our capacity as we shouldn't be "modernizing" a country. So when that realization came, we closed the operation and left. Period. The objective was already achieved years ago. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Amaa'n]

The US did everything inside Pakistan with the permissions of the dictator you guys had back in 2002 onwards. In fact, it surprised the US how much open access was provided to us. Usually these things are negotiated.

that would be incorrect...
Mark Mazzetti in his book "The Way of Knife" noted that Pakistan - US partnership was working flawlessly. US Spec Ops / SMUs were embedded into SSG / ISI Spec Ops units in the tribal areas.

US SMUs & 'Knobturners' were assisting in surveillance operation & conducting counter terrorism raids.

Steve Coll in his book Directorate S also noted that such partnership gave false hope to US policy makers and those at higher places that they could get away with unilateral action. Their unilateral operation got exposed when Spec Op members were found roaming off the consulate & embassy premises.

Their wings were clipped and owing to the foolishness of US policy makers, relationship b/w two allies deteriorated.

Let me say again here, US failed to achieve it's Objective back then, not sure what makes them think it will work this time.

Second, for operational safety, including your own Army's ops, or Indian army's surgical strikes into Pakistan not too long ago, the night time is considered the best and the safest, especially if your enemy doesn't have night vision stuff. Even then, it's considered safer and full of surprises.

Yh, am not taking the bait here bud...move on and come up with a better excuse....
It was safe for Afghan Taliban to provide outer parameter security to US & NATO forces but was not safe to leave in night time.....
You do realize that US SMUs / Spec Ops were running trips to EVAC those 'At Risk' with a nudge from Taliban.,,,

 

[DJ_Viper]

that would be incorrect...
Mark Mazzetti in his book "The Way of Knife" noted that Pakistan - US partnership was working flawlessly. US Spec Ops / SMUs were embedded into SSG / ISI Spec Ops units in the tribal areas.
US SMUs & 'Knobturners' were assisting in surveillance operation & conducting counter terrorism raids.
Steve Coll in his book Directorate S also noted that such partnership gave false hope to US policy makers and those at higher places that they could get away with unilateral action. Their unilateral operation got exposed when Spec Op members were found roaming off the consulate & embassy premises.
Their wings were clipped and owing to the foolishness of US policy makers, relationship b/w two allies deteriorated.
Let me say again here, US failed to achieve it's Objective back then, not sure what makes them think it will work this time.
Yh, am not taking the bait here bud...move on and come up with a better excuse....
It was safe for Afghan Taliban to provide outer parameter security to US & NATO forces but was not safe to leave in night time.....
You do realize that US SMUs / Spec Ops were running trips to EVAC those 'At Risk' with a nudge from Taliban.,,,

What are you trying to say? That Taliban is now a bigger force then the US? There is no "bait" here. The US follows a rule and I've heard it many times: "when an operation goes bad, we shut it down, no emotions'. Secondly, as soon as Afg. operation was wrapped up, the entire focus went towards China. I am sure you follow news. To stay in Afg. trying to change a nation of rag tag militia for centuries isn't in our interest when our focus is to circle China with so many obstacles before it can become powerful. Afg. was a waste of money after we achieved our goal and killed OBL. That's it. You can dance around this as much as you want to and keep calling "the night flight out" as the world's worst warfare it means jack to me as it's far from the reality. The Taliban have given world level assurances that there won't be any elements ever hosted against the West while back in 2001, the stance was the opposite. So after OBL take out, this is secondary goals being met.

How many "writers" know about your REAL operation on February the 27th with India? How many have reported that before BISON was shot down, over 6 times, your -16's and JFT's retreated? I like Pakistan so I always favor her for personal reasons and I know Pakistan VERY well. Your media doesn't dare post one full version of the 26th and 27th Feb events. Similarly, no "writer" would write about the most confidential operations. The writers want to SELL their books and make the most money. Sensation sells. On Musharraf and afterwards, even with full access, there is no hiding that we got double crossed. But, since I know Pakistan well, I also understand that Pakistan has a friendly relationship with Taliban to ensure at the least one side (2500 KM border) remains safe and it can't afford to turn the Taliban into enemies. But, the world powers would want their say as they carry a bigger stick than I do. It's really that simple. Let's stop making a mountain out of children's sand-hill.

 

[mudas777]

Besides creating trouble in Baluchistan, US can push India to get control of GB and create a direct link with Afghanistan and cut CPEC, as well

Absolutely US can do anything with the help of the India and pigs can fly too. No wonder US planes left Bagram airport in the early hours of the morning with no lights on like thieves on the run. If US creates any insurgency in Pakistan then Pakistan have got every right to support California independence movement.
As far India is concerned they have been released from the centuries of subservience and slavery of foreign rule only 70 years ago and it will take good few centuries to see some changes in their genes. Freedoms of Naga land, Mizoram and Khalistan independence to name the few are just like on/off switch for Pakistan. Its matter of having political will in Pakistan elite to let ISI to do the surgery on Indian supa power and bring the Indian elephant down by breaking the animal leg. Pakistan is for far too long being kind to India as we are kind folks by nature with big hearts so don't take kindness for granted as control of the switch is always in our hands.