Cost Effective Innovation in Pakistan Army

[Desert Fox]

Currently the Pakistan Army has a large fleet of old and close to obsolete Tanks:

These Tanks have a outdated design that is not crew friendly and not to mention these Tanks have a very low crew survivability if hit by Anti Tank rounds considering their design is the old Soviet design in which the crew protection was sacrificed for low silhouette and ease of production.


However, instead of fazing out these tanks and scrapping them it would be cost effective and very useful if these were to be converted into Armored Personnel Carriers, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Infantry Combat Vehicles, self propelled mortar system (close artillery support for mechanized infantry) or anything of a special role for use in time of war that can compliment our current forces.


The Israelis have taken this route by converting captured T Series tanks and converting them into APC's and IFV's.


Israeli Ahzarit converted from T-54, has a very low silhouette:

And why doesn't Pakistan have a mobile Mortar for close short range artillery support? We have been improving our artillery in the medium and long range self propelled howitzers purchases and upgrades, however we have left the short range mobile mortar aspect neglected and it is very important that we take this into consideration by either developing a mobile mortar system from scratch or convert old Tanks into mobile mortars.

The advantages of a self propelled mortar:

1). Can carry large caliber mortar (unlike the small caliber carried by infantry) to lay heavy artillery fire on nearby enemy positions.

2). Due to mobility it can keep up with the movement of Armor and mechanized infantry.

3). Crew protection due to being armored.


"Another area Cloughley cites that has not received much attention is the need for a self-propelled mortar system to equip the mechanized infantry formations and provide firepower to complement the self-propelled howitzers. Improving the self-propelled howitzer assets has been the primary goal, however, so little has been done to boost mortar capabilities."

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...es-artillery-upgrade-program.html#post2178745


Wiesel 120mm Self propelled Mortar:

Wiesel mortar system - YouTube



Description
The chassis is almost identical to that used for the Wiesel 2 vehicle. The driver is seated at the front right with the power pack, consisting of the diesel engine, transmission and cooling system, front left. The commander and ammunition loader are seated on the left and face inwards while the commander is also provided with a hatch and periscopes for all-round observation.The actual 120 mm mortar is pivoted at the rear and when being loaded, is lowered into the horizontal position with the mortar bombs being fed into the muzzle manually.The 120 mm mortar then returns to its designated firing position, fired and then returns to the loading position again. Loading the 120 mm mortar is carried out under complete NBC protection.The 120 mm muzzle loaded smoothbore mortar has been fitted with a special recoil system and firing a standard 120 mm mortar bomb, a maximum range of 8,000 m is obtained.It can also fire smart 120 mm rounds, for example the Swedish terminally guided Strix up to a maximum length of 1,000 m. This is already in service with Sweden and Switzerland.A total of 25 rounds of 120 mm ammunition are carried plus two smart rounds. It is normally operated by a crew of three: commander, loader and driver.Under a separate contract, Rheinmetall Weapons and Munitions is developing a new generation of more effective ammunition for use with the 120 mm smoothbore mortar.This will include an improved high-explosive mortar bomb with a multifunctional fuze with a maximum

http://articles.janes.com/articles/...me-Wiesel-2-120-mm-mortar-system-Germany.html

 

[Desert Fox]

Here is a example of an old and obsolete Tank being converted into a Self Propelled Mortar.

The Makmat is a M4 Sherman converted into a 160mm Self Propelled Mortar:

File:Makmat-160.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The Israeli Ahzarit is a good and useful conversion -- we lack a good IFV in our armoured formations.

 

[acetophenol]

indian Carrier Mortar Tracked on BMP chassis

i know this is crap,and this just ended up as a prototype:

tarmour AFV based on t-55 chasis from CVRDE

 

[Fieldmarshal]

All the t-55/59 have been converted into al-zarrar, which has given them a new life and made them very deadly.
The once that have not been converted have been given to F.C where new armour regiments have been raised I.S duty.

So wt PA has done to its old tanks is the most const effective and the ultimate utilization of an old tank.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I was thinkin abt the same thing.... convert them into IFVs or mobile mortar carriers... would save alot of money.

indian Carrier Mortar Tracked on BMP chassis

i know this is crap,and this just ended up as a prototype:

tarmour AFV based on t-55 chasis from CVRDE

Both of em were failures... i wonder why.

 

[punjabimunda]

I was thinkin abt the same thing.... convert them into IFVs or mobile mortar carriers... would save alot of money.



Both of em were failures... i wonder why.

u call them failures but they r actually prototypes built to test certain technologies.

 

[killerx]

i think the bigest example is pak army al-zarar tank low cost upgrade and bangladesh is getting there done by us to

 

[Desert Fox]

All the t-55/59 have been converted into al-zarrar, which has given them a new life and made them very deadly.
The once that have not been converted have been given to F.C where new armour regiments have been raised I.S duty.

So wt PA has done to its old tanks is the most const effective and the ultimate utilization of an old tank.

AFAIK the T-55/59 conversion to Al-Zarrar has been very slow, so far last time i checked we only have about 300-400 Al-Zarrars while there are still close to or about a thousand Type 59's and 69's in our inventory.

These Tanks are old and obsolete designs that are hazardous for the Crew, their armor protection is not that great compared to modern standards so giving these to the FC, who are fighting a insurgency in hilly and mountainous regions, will only be giving them a metal coffin on tracks.

In order to fight a insurgency effectively you need a mine resistant IFV that has a V shaped hull and rapid fire gun, much like the Bradley.

i think the bigest example is pak army al-zarar tank low cost upgrade and bangladesh is getting there done by us to

Not all of Pakistani Type-59's and 69's have been converted into Al-Zarrars, there are still about a thousand Type-59's/69's in their original design and these should be converted into IFV/ICV or self propelled mortar systems.

 

[somebozo]

convert them into military construction heavy equipment. Thats what they do in Russia.

 

[Armstrong]

If we can convert them into so many other things...can't we just upgrade the rest to Al-Zarar standard ? Perhaps even get some pointers from Turkey about their Sabras and from Jordan about their Phoneix ?

 

[Desert Fox]

If we can convert them into so many other things...can't we just upgrade the rest to Al-Zarar standard ? Perhaps even get some pointers from Turkey about their Sabras and from Jordan about their Phoneix ?

The point isn't about just converting them into anything, rather it is about converting them into what we need, as i already pointed out in my first post Pakistan's armored formations and mechanized infantry is lagging short range close artillery support as well as a dedicated IFV/ICV which leads me to believe that we should convert these old Tanks into Self Propelled Mortars equipped with large caliber mortars that can keep up with our mechanized infantry and armored formations providing them the necessary close short range artillery support to take out embedded enemy positions that might post a threat to advancing infantry or tanks or we can also convert them into dedicated IFV's that can be very useful in close combat situations like in Urban areas or hilly and mountainous environment as well as against enemy infantry and tanks.

 

[Armstrong]

The point isn't about just converting them into anything, rather it is about converting them into what we need, as i already pointed out in my first post Pakistan's armored formations and mechanized infantry is lagging short range close artillery support as well as a dedicated IFV/ICV which leads me to believe that we should convert these old Tanks into Self Propelled Mortars equipped with large caliber mortars that can keep up with our mechanized infantry and armored formations providing them the necessary close short range artillery support to take out embedded enemy positions that might post a threat to advancing infantry or tanks or we can also convert them into dedicated IFV's that can be very useful in close combat situations like in Urban areas or hilly and mountainous environment as well as against enemy infantry and tanks.

Surely such a gaping hole in our mechanized infantry and armor formations would have been known to our Military Higherups ! And could it be that we still value India much, much higher when it comes to our threat assessment when compared with Insurgents and as such our first priority is to upgrade the tanks to Al Zarar level to maintain parity between their armor and ours. Additionally can't we use equip the Talha APCs with mortars instead of converting these old tanks - opportunity cost !

 

[Arsalan]

we are using some on these old tanks in de-mining roles.
fitted with mine-rollers being manufactured locally, these machines serve to clear the battle field of mines and protect the advance of military forces.

details:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/125394-de-mining-equipment-pakistan-army.html

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

u call them failures but they r actually prototypes built to test certain technologies.

Like what?... these things never got into production ? what was new in them? a chopped up T-55 and an ancient BMP with a mortar?