Controversial Afghan-Pak intelligence MoU 'does not remain', says Hamid Karzai

[Hindustani78]

Updated: September 4, 2015 02:29 IST
Interview with former Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai - The Hindu

• Suhasini Haidar

The Hindu
Hamid Karzai says the Strategic Partnership Council at the Foreign Ministers’ level must be revived at the earliest. Photo: V.V. Moorthy
He spoke about the strain in Afghan-Pakistan ties as well as reviving the Indo-Afghan Strategic Partnership Alliance council.
Former President Hamid Karzai holds no official post, but he continues to be influential in Afghan politics and both President Ghani and CEO Abdullah have served in his cabinet. In an interview in Delhi to a select group of journalists that included Diplomatic Editor Suhasini Haidar, he spoke about the strain in Afghan-Pakistan ties as well as reviving the Indo-Afghan Strategic Partnership Alliance council.



Qun: India and Afghanistan relations seem strained at present. What is the view from Kabul, is there disappointment over the “list” of defence equipment that India has not delivered?



Karzai: When I signed a strategic partnership agreement (SPA) with India, the purpose was not only military but about a comprehensive relationship with India that we wanted. The “list” (of defence equipment and ammunition) was a small part of that, that we understood India could not deliver upon. The SPA was an intention of a broader relationship, not an expectation of delivery of goods.

Qun: What has changed in the India-Afghanistan relationship after the swearing in of President Ghani?



Karzai: Well, relations between the two countries are always people based. Our civilizational links are beyond governments. So no matter who is in power, relations remain strong. India has proved to be a steadfast friend of Afghanistan over the past 13 years. Thousands of youth who have been educated. More than 2billion dollars of assistance that paid for the Zaranj Delaram Highway, the Salma Dam, the new Parliament building which I hope the PM of India will iniaugurate soon, a thousand scholarships. No country has done for us what India has done for us, keeping its circumstances in mind. After my retirement as President, I have seen the massive impact of the education has had in Afghanistan. A critical mass of students, the middle class, the workforce of Afghanistan has been built by India through the educational opportunities it provides. We have a problem in the terror that affects both India and Afghanistan. And I hope the people of Pakistan realise it. Afghanistan has a lot of respect for the people of Pakistan, they received us and treated us well as refugees. The issue is with the military and intelligence there. I am sure India is seeking an end to all the violence of the kind we have seen in Gurdaspur or in Kabul recently.

Qun: Could we be specific about the Strategic Partnership? Since 2012, there has been no meeting of the Strategic Partnership Council. The Hindu had recently reported on how India has rebuffed Afghanistans proposals to hold the dialogue between foreign ministers….



Karzai: I would strongly recommend that India launch the strategic partnership council at the earliest. The Afghan government wants this dialogue, and India must start it.



Qun: Why do you think India isn’t accepting the offer for the dialogue? There have been four requests from the Afghan government this year, with no response.

Karzai: Let me not venture into this area.



Qun: You envisioned this strategic partnership in 2011. Today, all that it has come down to is 182 jeeps, 3 helicopters, and training a thousand plus ANA soldiers in the Indian Academy. Is this what you had envisioned 4 years ago?



Karzai: Not at all. In terms of reconstruction, India has done far more than anyone. In terms of education, India has gone far beyond anyone else. In terms of security assistance, India has been hesitant, for reasons known to India, which we in Afghanistan would hope would have been better. India should be more forthcoming and forward looking with the Afghan government and people much more. I know the Afghan government has asked for the launch of this strategic dialogue for years now, my recommendation that India do this as soon as possible, and carry the torch forward.



Qun: In India the question is, how can one trust the new government in Afghanistan? The President’s close ties with the Pakistani military, the recently signed MoU between the ISI and NDS (Afghan intelligence) …

Karzai: We also saw President Ghani speak of his frustrations with Pakistan just a few days ago. As I mentioned earlier, the relationship is based on the people. So India must engage with the Afghan government, thinking of the Afghan people. Things will change no doubt.



Qun: Are you saying President Ghani is moving away from the closeness with Pakistan?



Karzai: That is not for me to say. What I can say is India and Afghanistan are intrinsically linked in terms of security and prosperity. The options for India are limited in Afghanistan so we have to be together.

Qun: Despite that, when it comes to the Taliban talks recently, India was cut out of the picture entirely. The US and China were invited, but India was not taken into confidence about what the Afghan government was going to do….

Karzai: India is a huge country, it has relevance wordwide. For us in the region, it is not only a neighbour, and has an essential contribution for keeping peace in the region. Therefore if someone is working on a peace deal India must be part of it. For any peace talks to be successful, India, Iran and Russia must also be taken into confidence. But I would also ask India to be seeking that role. India should not be hesitant. India must play its role.

Qun: In the post Mullah Omar scenario, the Taliban has named Siraj Haqqani the deputy leader to Mullah Mansour. Given Haqqani’s role in attacks on Afghan security forces, what kind of impact will this have on the peace talks?



Karzai: Yes, many attacks have been attributed to the Haqqani network, and they must be investigated. Now that one of their leaders has been named the deputy leader of the Taliban, we as Afghans would hope that they will work for Afghanistan, and not work for any other power to undermine Afghanistan. The Taliban must begin to act as Afghans in Afghanistan’s interests, and that includes in our interests with India.

Security for us means security for India and security for India is good for us. This doesn’t mean that the Taliban or Afghans cant be friends with Pakistan. We are neighbours, we can have a brotherly relationship but a sovereign Afghanistan can have a good relationship with both, and cant take dictation from either. Pakistan must choose a peaceful coexistence with Afghanistan and not a destructive role. If it pursues a destructive role, it will have no bearing on us, as it has not had any in the past 13 years.

Qun: What about your own role? We have seen international reports that you are trying to undermine President Ghani. That you are an extra constitutional authority over the government, and the accusation that you are a part of an Indian design to re- establish its influence on Kabul.



Karzai: (Laughs) I wish India had a design! It’s none of that. I am fully behind the government. I fully support President Ghani. Of course, it is true, I have issued a statement about my concern over the MoU between Afghanistan intelligence NDS and the ISI. That was a national issue, and as a citizen of Afghanistan I have a right to speak that it was wrong. Other than that I am fully behind the government and my services are always available and I am a man of some experience.

Qun: Despite that the NDS-ISI MoU still remains…

Karzai: The MoU does not remain…No. We[President Ghani and I] had a conversation about that which will bear fruits as time will move on. It is something the Afghan people rejected, they have not accepted..It is clearly against Afghan interests.

Qun: So what was behind the MoU?

Karzai: I can’t say what was behind it, but can tell you it was not in the interests of Afghanistan. Not that we don’t want to be friendly with Pakistan, we want to be very friendly with the people of Pakistan but the ISI, the Pakistani intelligence is not a good example to emulate for Afghanistan. For that reason, that partnership was not right for us.

 

[Hiptullha]

Pakistan must choose a peaceful coexistence with Afghanistan and not a destructive role. If it pursues a destructive role, it will have no bearing on us, as it has not had any in the past 13 years.

Complete bullshit. This guy mentions in the same interview that Afghanistan will never accept the Durand Line or the current border with Pakistan. Hamid Karzai and his Northern Alliance goons will try to ensure "Peaceful coexistence" with Pakistan when a good chunk of Khyber Pakhtunwa is in Afghan hands.

 

[halupridol]

Complete bullshit. This guy mentions in the same interview that Afghanistan will never accept the Durand Line or the current border with Pakistan. Hamid Karzai and his Northern Alliance goons will try to ensure "Peaceful coexistence" with Pakistan when a good chunk of Khyber Pakhtunwa is in Afghan hands.

sounds like a Indian complaining about Pakistan

 

[Hiptullha]

sounds like a Indian complaining about Pakistan

Yeah, no. Kashmir is internationally recognized as disputed territory.

 

[That Guy]

Karzai is getting what he wants, a destroyed Afghanistan, so that he can come back into power.

Afghans, like him, fail to realize that Pakistan doesn't care if Afghanistan remains a shit hole for the rest of existence, Pakistan's main concern is peace and stability on it's western frontier. If this goes on, a new leader will come along and finally have the balls to say "**** off" to Afghanistan, and fence the border permanently. If that happens, Afghans can kiss their economy good bye, as it heavily relies on black market trade.

 

[Hindustani78]

Afghanistan's mixed signals over talks with Pakistan | Zee News

Islamabad: Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani conveyed mixed signals to Pakistan on resumption of bilateral talks that were disrupted last month after terrorist attacks in Kabul.

After Pakistan`s Adviser on National Security and Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz`s meeting with Ghani it was not clear if a thaw in ties was in the offing or the tensions would persist, Dawn online reported.

Ghani reiterated his policy of good neighbourly ties with Pakistan, but at the same time pointed fingers at unnamed elements in Pakistan who, were opposed to peace in Afghanistan.

Aziz was leading Pakistani delegation to the regional conference that took place in Kabul on September 4-5.

The focus of Aziz`s discussions in Kabul was on finding a way to end the acrimony in the relationship that became more pronounced after last month`s attacks in Kabul.

IANS

Karzai is getting what he wants, a destroyed Afghanistan, so that he can come back into power.

Afghans, like him, fail to realize that Pakistan doesn't care if Afghanistan remains a shit hole for the rest of existence, Pakistan's main concern is peace and stability on it's western frontier. If this goes on, a new leader will come along and finally have the balls to say "**** off" to Afghanistan, and fence the border permanently. If that happens, Afghans can kiss their economy good bye, as it heavily relies on black market trade.

Karzai wants an Independent and soveriegn Afghanistan like the rest of Afghans.

Afghanistan do have enough natural resources and they are aware that India can provide them technology so that they can develop themselves. Dont forget Afghanistan is SAARC member State.

 

[Imran Khan]

he can fold and enter in his arse

 

[haviZsultan]

Complete bullshit. This guy mentions in the same interview that Afghanistan will never accept the Durand Line or the current border with Pakistan. Hamid Karzai and his Northern Alliance goons will try to ensure "Peaceful coexistence" with Pakistan when a good chunk of Khyber Pakhtunwa is in Afghan hands.

As the Afghan nationals can argue we hold their land our pashtun people can argue they hold our land. I think Pakistan should swallow Afghanistan at the earliest. It is a pain in the *** for us Pakistanis.

 

[Hiptullha]

Karzai wants an Independent and soveriegn Afghanistan like the rest of Afghans.

What I can say is India and Afghanistan are intrinsically linked in terms of security and prosperity.

I know the Afghan government has asked for the launch of this strategic dialogue for years now, my recommendation that India do this as soon as possible, and carry the torch forward.

Security for us means security for India and security for India is good for us.

I am sure India is seeking an end to all the violence of the kind we have seen in Gurdaspur or in Kabul recently.

This is the "independent" and "sovereign" Afghanistan Karzai wants?

I think Pakistan should swallow Afghanistan at the earliest.

We already have a soiled global rep, no need to ruin it anymore by annexing Afghanistan. Better to watch the Northern Alliance-dominated government implode and then pick up the pieces later on.

 

[graphican]

In the power equation, Karazi doesn't fit anywhere. He is talking as if he is active president of Afghanistan and as if his words matter. Poor chap.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

As the Afghan nationals can argue we hold their land our pashtun people can argue they hold our land. I think Pakistan should swallow Afghanistan at the earliest. It is a pain in the *** for us Pakistanis.

Just try to swallow Afghanistan.....
You've heard the saying: "na nigal saktey hain, na ugal saktey hain"
And if you do manage to swallow...... then you'll really have (in your own words above), a pain in the *** for you pakistanis.

 

[That Guy]

Karzai wants an Independent and soveriegn Afghanistan like the rest of Afghans.

Afghanistan do have enough natural resources and they are aware that India can provide them technology so that they can develop themselves. Dont forget Afghanistan is SAARC member State.

No, Karzai wants to remain in power, in fact, he's still acting like he's in charge, and basically controls most of the government and parliament through allies.

Why do you think the Americans are so frustrated with Karzai and have been warning him to stay the hell away from government policies? Why do you think major think tanks are saying that Karzai is an opportunistic leech that is trying to destabilize the government, so he can come back into power as some sort of king?

SAARC can do little for Afghanistan, same with India. If the Americans and Europeans couldn't do, if the Russians couldn't do it, if Pakistan (which came damn close) couldn't do it, what makes you think India can?

 

[Donatello]

Hamid Karzai is no longer relevant. Why doesn't ISI simply dump him...you know...in Arabian sea?