Contribution of Persia to the World Civilization

[Dr.Evil]

Forget all the past, who really cares who ruled who.

At the present times what are the contributions from the respective countries to the people and the world at large.

Stop living the past glory and try to live in the present day.

 

[LaBong]

The article is over-blown and inaccurate, no different from some of our right-wing loonies. Having said that, I have great respect as well as interest towards Persian history and civilization, as it has been both conflicting and influential to our own civilization.

Sanskrit, which is the mother of all modern languages, was born in Iran, before it went to India

Sanskrit and old Iranian languages have common root, deriving from common Indo-Iranian ancestor. Rig-Vedic Sanskrit is extremely close to Avestan, both being sister languages. Here is an example extracted from wiki :

Avestan: aevo pantao yo ashahe, vispe anyaesham apantam (Yasna 72.11)
Sanskrit: abade pantha he ashae, visha anyaesham apantham
Translation: "The one path is that of Asha, all others are not-paths."


Also early Vedic religion and Zoroastrianism have lots in common as well as conflicting. Like the Avestan cognate of Vedic devá- is daēva and asura is ahura, in case of Zoroastrianism ahuras are the good one and devas are the false gods, to put it in a very crude way. It shows the conflicting nature of early Vedic religion followers and Zoroastrianism followers, because of their close proximity and common ancestry, but independent and rich culture/civilizations.

I have one question, what is the status of Zoroastrians in modern Iran, I know not many of them are left having migrated to India, Pakistan and other places, but do Iranians trace back to that part of their history?

 

[falconfx]

Persia was a force to reckon with until the Islamic revolution ruined it.

 

[Pasban]

seems i need to start a separate thread giving some sense to the likes of pasban.

As mentioned beforehand in my opening note to the post, the compilation (and it's text) is not mine. Your issues are better addressed to the stated professor. This should have been obvious already but perhaps given my lack of "sense" compared to yourself, it apparently wasn't.

As to the origin of Sanskrit, academics are not certain on the geographical position of it's origin. As a result, it is classified as an Indo-Iranic tongue. The closeness to Iran stated by some academics is because of it's strong correlation with ancient Avestan and Old Persian and the underlying belief that it was carried forward by migrations of Aryanic peoples (whose origin is matter of a separate debate). Regardless of it's exact positioning or the cultural differences of the inheriting speakers, it goes to say that ancient Indo-Iranic and Dravidian peoples share certain common historical and genetic bonds amongst each other.

 

[Pasban]

134) Nuclear Technology provided by Pakistan

True. Your post is however unrelated to the thread. The founding contributions towards nuclear technology or the later essential pioneering efforts in that regard were not done by both our peoples when put in respect to world civilization. I do hope the future holds better for us regarding this.

What is the contribution since 1979 till now which is well before many of this forum members were born ?

Iranians have made some sincere efforts regarding their internal industries as well as some notable strives in the field of medicine and science in general-- the scientific output of Iran has indeed grown continuously. These however do not meet the conditions of the professor's list as surely they may be achievements on Iran's part but they're aren't really ones regarding world civilization.

 

[Pasban]

Thanks for the informative post Pasban.

Is Zoroastrianism still practiced openly in your country?

Zoroastrianism is till practiced in Iran, and yes it is practiced openly still. However, the immense influence and following it once had, had been placed in the annals of history since the mass religious conversion of Iranian people over time following the early-medieval Islamic conquest. Today, Zoroastrians make up a tiny minority. They are protected in the present constitution of Iran. Their numbers within Iran have dwindled even further since the revolution.

I would appreciate it if you could provide us some details on the remnants of your Persian past in the Iran of your present.

Cheers, Doc

This question is a bit vague. Anything in particular?

 

[Pasban]

Persia was raped and destroyed by Alexander end of the story. I find amusing iranians calling themselves persians than iranians. Stop living in past people jeez.

Iran has been invaded many times throughout it's history. Alexander was nor the first or the last. As to your amusement, Iranians call themselves Iranians. Also, not all Iranians are Persians (Pars/Fars). I most certainly do not call myself Persian. The term itself is of foreign origin. A similar case is found with Germany, a name that is not used in their own tongue (natives call themselves Deutschen and their country Deutschland). It was only in the 30s that "Persia" insisted that it be referred to by it's own derived name internationally-- Iran. The originator of the compilation (the professor) uses the term Persia probably for historical reasons. Also, no one here in living in the past. Lastly, your remark was in poor taste.

 

[Pasban]

Persia was a force to reckon with until the Islamic revolution ruined it.

We are no longer Persia to the world, we are Iran, and that is a statement in itself... and we are still a force to reckon with.

 

[falconfx]

We are no longer Persia to the world, we are Iran, and that is a statement in itself... and we are still a force to reckon with.

That is a statement in itself?

and we are still a force to reckon with.

 

[vsdoc]

Zoroastrianism is till practiced in Iran, and yes it is practiced openly still. However, the immense influence and following it once had, had been placed in the annals of history since the mass religious conversion of Iranian people over time following the early-medieval Islamic conquest. Today, Zoroastrians make up a tiny minority. They are protected in the present constitution of Iran. Their numbers within Iran have dwindled even further since the revolution.

What would you put the numbers of practicing Zoroastrians in modern Iran at? Are there any census figures for the same? Are they allowed to have their own agyaris and atash behrams (fire temples) there? Is Zorastrianism recognised by the state as a de facto religion, albeit a now-minority one? What sort of "protection" are you talking about?

Equally importantly, are these Zoroastrians remanants of the religion who somehow survived over a thousand years of Islamic conversions, or are there many amongst them who are neo-Zoroastrian re-converts?

This question is a bit vague. Anything in particular?

The islamic revolution you talk about brought with it a degree of rabid narrow religious thought from your mullas which made it even more difficult for the remanants of the Zoroastrian faith to survive in what was once their land.

This was especially seen as the last straw coming on the back of the ouster of the Shah who was to an extent seen as someone who had somewhat of a soft corner (or tolerance?) for the Zoroastrians, as also was a lot more progressive and western in his outlook towards politics and life in general.

So my question, in as unambiguous a form as possible, is this. Post the Iranian mullas and their form of Islam, how does the Iran and Iranians of today look at their Zoroastrian heritage of the past.

I say heritage and not just religious faith, because as an Iranian you would no doubt agree that Zoroastrianism was not just your early religious faith, but the entire culture and identity of your people, be it science, literature, architecture, theology, language, or politics.

I pretty much know the answer as I am on a number of Iranian fora (albeit not as active as I am here) as well as had many muslim Irani friends studying here in Poona during my college days, but I would like to hear your point of view too if I may.

Cheers, Doc

 

[RescueRanger]

Persia was a force to reckon with until the Islamic revolution ruined it.

Again with the Islam... Mate Persia had a lot of problems, next thing you will say Islam ruined the Ottoman Empire..

 

[ASQ-1918]

Inaccurate, misleading.

 

[M Ismail]

The article is over-blown and inaccurate, no different from some of our right-wing loonies.

It is good that Iranians are conscious of their ancient heritage, and that should be appreciated by both Pakistanis and Indians.

However Sanskrit originated in South Asia rather than Persia. Almost all Pakistani and North Indian languages are still very close to Sanskrit.

 

[Ahmad]

@vsdoc: Why do you mix up religion with culture? Hindu religion might have connectivity with your culture, but ours is not like that. Zoroastrian faith might not have many followers, but ancient traditions are widely practised today among the muslims in this wide persian heritage region. What do you think Nowrooz is? is it islamic custom?

 

[vsdoc]

@vsdoc: Why do you mix up religion with culture? Hindu religion might have connectivity with your culture, but ours is not like that. Zoroastrian faith might not have many followers, but ancient traditions are widely practised today among the muslims in this wide persian heritage region. What do you think Nowrooz is? is it islamic custom?

Ahmad, one cannot help mixing religion with the culture of a land and a people when for the most significant part of human civilization the land and people and their culture are closely intertwined with the religion practiced by the people of that land for millenia.

Like Hinduism in India/Bharat/Hindustan. And Zoroastrianism in Persia (which would inlude most of present day Iran and Azerbaijan, and large chunks of present day Iraq, Armenia, and Afghanistan). Or for that matter later day Buddhism in China.

Such is not the case with Christianity or Islam, which are much newer religions and more widespread in the present world due mainly to conquest and conversion, and hence have never been the guiding cultural influence in much of the Old World (at a time when today's Europe and America were still hunter-gatherer-herders).

I am well aware of Navroz my friend. As are many other customs and even calenders which we still share with the people of Iran. I merely wanted to learn more about it and the old ties that Iran still has with its legacy shared by them and the non-Irani Parsi Zoroastrian community worldwide.

Like you guys go to Mecca once in your lifetimes, most Parsis too try and visit Iran once to see their ancient holy places and pray there.

I plan to do it too one day ..... overland via Pakistan and Afghanistan if possible. Which is why I try to make as many Pakistani and Afghan friends here as possible before attempting that.

Hope that explains things better.

Cheers, Doc