How do you expect average civilians to pick up arms and fight trained militants? These militant groups did not fall from the sky. They have been groomed and trained for years. The bitter truth is that this problem has been brewing for decades while many Western governments have deliberately or unconsciously turned a blind eye. Whether we like it or not, the West too has been indulged in nurturing good and bad militias. There is no explanation how so many of these youngsters have ended up in Syria and other conflict zones around the world to wage bloodshed and develop an evil ideology. The West has a big hand in allowing this ideology to develop as a cancer.
What a pity it is that an Indian has to inform a Pakistani about his own country.
Please look up your country's laws. In Pakistan it is a legal crime to leave Islam. A crime that has the maximum punishment of death. The Judge has the discretion here.
So a Muslim cannot legally convert to any other religion he likes. If this is what you call "no restriction on any religion in Pakistan", then I am rather happy.
that is not true. death penalty for conversion is in islam, but not in the pakistan's constitution. it is one of those things we have left undefined. we have gotten our way around of some of the barbaric laws of islam such as cutting of hand and feet, stoning to death, etc.
The expectation that 5.5 billion people should read YOUR holy book to better understand you and be more sensitive your feelings is a bit arrogant. How could you possibly think we care about what your religion has to say? We are all busy with our lives and don't have time for you or your religion. We make plenty of jokes about other religions and the worst that happens is a social media frenzy. Muslims are the only ones who actually go out and kill people over it. Maybe should read and understand other religions. I don't know about jurisprudence but you might learn a bit about tolerance.
that is not true. death penalty for conversion is in islam, but not in the pakistan's constitution. it is one of those things we have left undefined. we have gotten our way around of some of the barbaric laws of islam such as cutting of hand and feet, stoning to death, etc.
Here, this is how those gaps that were left undefined have been filled up. By precedents:
in 1991 by the Pakistan Sessions Court Judge, with the ruling, "conversion from Islam into Christianity is itself a cognizable offence involving serious implications"
Then Lahore High Court against this ruling was also denied with the explanation that re-asserted "conversion from Islam to Christianity is a serious offence".
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As of this moment, it is a cognizable offense to convert from Islam to any other religion in Pakistan. And the discretion is solely on the Judge as to what punishment to award, and there is a precedent that it can be charged under Blasphemy laws.
Complete freedom of religion in Pakistan I see. The bull$hit some Pakistanis come up with and expect others to believe(not you taimur, atleast you had some knowledge on the issue before commenting)
What a pity it is that an Indian has to inform a Pakistani about his own country.
Please look up your country's laws. In Pakistan it is a legal crime to leave Islam. A crime that has the maximum punishment of death. The Judge has the discretion here.
So a Muslim cannot legally convert to any other religion he likes. If this is what you call "no restriction on any religion in Pakistan", then I am rather happy.
Whilst the law is deplorable we ought to call a spade a spade. Many countries including yours also has religious fanatics who burn converts and caste people out of communities for converting to another religion. Minorities are chopped into pieces in broad daylight and I'm not making this up. It's all documented and it happens right in front of our very eyes.
Whilst the law is deplorable we ought to call a spade a spade. Many countries including yours also has religious fanatics who burn converts and caste people out of communities for converting to another religion. It's all documented.
Take a wild guess. @Zarvan is now an Elite member. These titles are given by the administration of this website and forum. That means he (and his views) have official sanction and acceptance here.
He brings bad name to me and fellow Muslims. Some non-Muslims on this forum use him as a perfect example.
Take a wild guess. @Zarvan is now an Elite member. These titles are given by the administration of this website and forum. That means he (and his views) have official sanction and acceptance here.
Then refute him, oppose him. No need to insult him. He is actually far tamer than what he was in the earlier Islamist autobot days.
No they don't understand. I had this exact discussion on this thread a few pages back with a guy called @syedali73. Whenever you criticize these guys, even if it is legitimate, these guys will robotically repeat the same thing - India has problems against minorities.
And all Pakistani minority problems, Shia violence, the less than 1% Hindu population remaining - no everything is alright with them. This schizophrenic attitude is behind their inability to take responsibility.
No they don't understand. I had this exact discussion on this thread a few pages back with a guy called syedali73. Whenever you criticize, even if it is legitimate, these guys will robotically repeat the same thing - India has problems against minorities.
What is wrong within our country, we turn a blind eye to it and point at India. Meanwhile, India suffers the same. There is terrorism there too, but they like to turn to Pakistan for it (Assam, e.g., AFAIK).
There you go, wonderful work mullahs and terrorists, wonderful. Hatred for Muslims is already at peak levels, and now you go ahead and kill twelve more people to show the world that Islamophobia is justified/true (it isn't - it isn't supposed to be, at least)
Yes, obviously there are plenty of non-Muslims condemning this tweet (trend has been hijacked by them now) and still being tolerant but the issue is that we have way too many people like Anjem Chaudry preaching hatred and a negative image of Islam in the West. Look people - you want Sharia, don't go to the West! When I go to Europe, I never expected to have Halal meat or mosques everywhere, yet those facilities are still widely available for us. What more can one want?
I know this issue has been discussed a lot before, but here I intend to discuss the logic behind movements like Sharia4UK, which have been propagating a negative image of Islam and Muslims and are obviously then backed by geniuses like AlQaeda and ISIS who 'implement' all that hate speech and kill people with it.
Hey morons Mullahs, how about you work on reducing the differences between the fifty dozen sects that exist so you can stop murdering Muslims and implement Sharia in Muslim countries first !?
I am really saddened by looking at some of the statements from our 'esteemed scholars' , who aren't condemning the shooting and instead indirectly supporting it, despite the fact that Islam has clearly commanded against violence in this matter.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 61 :
Narrated by 'Aisha A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet (and when they were admitted) they said, "As-Samu 'Alaika (Death be upon you)." I (Aisha) said (to them), "But death and the curse of Allah be upon you!" The Prophet said, "O 'Aisha! Allah is kind and lenient and likes that one should be kind and lenient in all matters."I (Aisha) said, "Haven't you heard what they said?" He said, "I said (to them), 'Wa 'Alaikum (and upon you).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 60 : A Jew passed by Allah's Apostle and said, "As-Samu 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle said in reply, "We 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle then said to his companions, "Do you know what he (the Jew) has said? He said, 'As-Samu 'Alaika.'" They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we kill him?" The Prophet, said, "No. When the people of the Book greet you, say: 'Wa 'Alaikum.'"
Also, Quranic verses:
"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme." [Qur'an 4:140]
"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you." [Qur'an 28: 55]
"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]
"Have patience with what they say, and leaves them with noble (dignity)." [Qur'an 73:10]
"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Qur'an 25:63]
"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [Qur'an 16: 128]
". . . But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Qur'an 9:47]
"And if you punished, let your punishment be proportionate to the wrong that has been done to you; but if you show patience, that is indeed the best course. [Qur'an 16:126]
"The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto: but if a person forgets and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah." [Qur'an 62:40]
"Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, (and) they avert evil with good." [Qur'an 28:54]
See the difference between Islam and murderous idiocy?
Honest advice, it almost far too late. Take out a procession of your entire community. I am sure Indians and other brown folks will also extend some support - and do a march for solidarity. Make it news. Otherwise the damage is done.
Under India's constitution, one need not to be hanged if they convert. But people like to take matters in their hands over there.
Under Pakistan's constitution, one needs to be hanged if and only that person leaves Islam. People also like to take matters in their hands here. I'm not aware if there have been deaths because someone left hinduism or christianity.
Now when the constitution allows such a law, it increases the amount of attacks.
What is wrong within our country, we turn a blind eye to it and point at India. Meanwhile, India suffers the same. There is terrorism there too, but they like to turn to Pakistan for it (Assam, e.g., AFAIK).
But when that nationalism causes you to turn a blind eye to your problems, and causes the loss of lives?
India has ton of problems - sure. In fact I personally believe that India is going on a downward path under Modi. His wink-wink-nudge-nudge to the RSS and VHP may well destroy India. Modi may be India's Zia, though I hope not.
I didn't mean to say Assam is blamed at Pakistan. I take my words back. But what I wanted to say that terrorism exists in India, but they portray it as if Pakistan is the problem.
No. For this we have blamed the Bodo Militants(Somgbijit faction). And operations are underway.
