Condominium: Possible Solution to the Kashmir Issue

[Varunastra]

We all have to die one day anyways. It will be less painful when you have no one to mourn your death or the deaths of your beloved ones. A nuclear explosion will kill us faster than our brain detects pain. Those left behind will die a slow and painful death though. You guys will be born again, probably as cats or dogs, in some part of the world and we will go to Jannah. We both are religious nations after all.

On a serious note, the idea of Pakistan is antithesis to the rationale behind existence of India as a country. There are some gaps that cannot be closed, unfortunately. Another possible scenario involving lesser bloodshed is that one of the two countries imploding. Earlier it was only Pakistan that faced such a threat, but with the rise of Hindutva in India you too have joined the league

To be very honest, I don't see why we can't live in peace if Kashmir gets solved and we stop trying to fuel unrest in each other's gardens. I get that the idea of Pakistan doesn't gel well with existence of secular India but with good trade relations and no military tensions, people tend to forget such things fast.
The problem, Kashmir, doesn't seem to be near a solution agreeable to both sides and hence the conflict goes on, not for any idealogy really, that just fuels the tension, it's just for the land and the resources in it.

 

[M. Sarmad]

you have to find a way to co-exist, even if you have to force yourself to swallow the bitter bill - their is no other option - people say breaking up but that wont happen at least not in our lifetime, of course we in Pakistan know that most of our breaking up sceneries are just pipe dreams (ill go through reasons too if any one wants- hint is everyone is dependent on the other guy to survive- economies, people, food production have been linked for centuries- even if Pak was hindu state it will have stayed together )
but its the same in India as long as they have a thriving democracy they'll survive as in diverse countries democracies have a way of sorting out issues
their is not other solution except for death and a scenario where thousands of year civilizations cease to exist

No matter how much we want to believe otherwise, the fact remains that a large-scale destructive war in this part of the world is inevitable

To be very honest, I don't see why we can't live in peace if Kashmir gets solved and we stop trying to fuel unrest in each other's gardens. I get that the idea of Pakistan doesn't gel well with existence of secular India but with good trade relations and no military tensions, people tend to forget such things fast.
The problem, Kashmir, doesn't seem to be near a solution agreeable to both sides and hence the conflict goes on, not for any idealogy really, that just fuels the tension, it's just for the land and the resources in it.

We, as Hindu and Muslim nations, tend to carry the burden of history, and those who carry such burdens live in the shadow of the past. I don't see that changing

 

[SIPRA]

No matter how much we want to believe otherwise, the fact remains that a large-scale destructive war in this part of the world is inevitable

Yes.
"Ya aap hae naeen, ya gaahk hae naeen"

We, as Hindu and Muslim nations, tend to carry the burden of history, and those who carry such burdens live in the shadow of the past. I don't see that changing

Yes. That is the case. Though, I believe that the psychological burden of history, which Hindus carry, is far far more than, what Muslims endure.

 

[Maula Jatt]

No matter how much we want to believe otherwise, the fact remains that a large-scale destructive war in this part of the world is inevitable

try to prolong the inevitable, than we'll see what happens from that point on

I love my people, our culture, our way of life, our speech, our nation too much
for them to die a tragic death like a dog blown up somewhere

I want peace (it doesn't mean we'll be friend but something better than what we currently have)

its not for India, China or US or anyone in the world

its for selfish desire to save my people and its extinction, cause I don't see a disintegration of any of the 2 countries in my lifetime (not that it'll solve the issue), infact all proxies will do is speed up the process of nuclear holocaust (because nations wont disintegrate, but it'll lead to the rise in nationalist/ extremists governments and you know you cant expect them to be the saner heads in a conflict)

This 1000s of years old civilization deserves better than a nuclear holocaust....

 

[DJ_Viper]

I hope this is all true.. (I am willing to accept status quo, as long as Kashmiris are happy and don't look to us as people who ditched them- if Kashmiris accept the Indian rule and are happy with it, we are happy too, we'll move on with our life)

In the end its all about what Kashmiris want (of course from our side we want the water issue to not be politicized)

but I haven't seen an ice break moment to suggest it is all solved?

Actually, the answer is going to be outside of this unsaid agreement. I've met a few Kashmiris from India. They don't side with Pakistan. That doesn't mean there aren't Kashmiris that want to join Pakistan or be independent, but the one's I've met, align with India like the rest of Indian citizens. Just my two cents based on actual interactions.

In this "unsaid" agreement, the Kashmiris aren't asked, nor did they have a say. It's between India-Pak and US is the facilitator and the no war pact is the outcome.

In that solution no one wins.
View attachment 776261
Maybe it is the fate of the subcontinent. Hopefully it never comes to that.

This time's over. The flashpoint was Kashmir and it's done and settled with a no war pact in place.

 

[Varunastra]

We, as Hindu and Muslim nations, tend to carry the burden of history, and those who carry such burdens live in the shadow of the past. I don't see that changing

The burden of history was carried by the French and English as well, even if look at it through a religious angle. Look at them now.
Possibility remains for us to live in peace. Some side or both will need to compromise and knowing us and our egos we probably won't,still the hope remains.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The burden of history was carried by the French and English as well, even if look at it through a religious angle. Look at them now.
Possibility remains for us to live in peace. Some side or both will need to compromise and knowing us and our egos we probably won't,still the hope remains.

There were no weapons of mass destruction back then, otherwise the world would have been a very different place to live in today

Also, it took them hundreds of years of wars and large-scale destructions, esp. in the second world war, to finally realize that war is good only as long as it is fought in far off lands, and when you make money out of it

A large-scale war in the Indo-Pak sub-continent may have similar effects on / lessons for the survivors (if any)

 

[Maula Jatt]

Actually, the answer is going to be outside of this unsaid agreement. I've met a few Kashmiris from India. They don't side with Pakistan. That doesn't mean there aren't Kashmiris that want to join Pakistan or be independent, but the one's I've met, align with India like the rest of Indian citizens. Just my two cents based on actual interactions.

In this "unsaid" agreement, the Kashmiris aren't asked, nor did they have a say. It's between India-Pak and US is the facilitator and the no war pact is the outcome.

well if they are happy with India are not demanding for freedom than its good

but Kashmiris from my interaction are angry with Pakistan for our lack of "doing", this is what motivates Pakistanis

Kashmiris themselves, on the internet, in person, seeing their protests, hearing about rapes and beatings, their chants

This means theirs always public support for Kashmiri independence, no nation fights without public support and public support only build for something public sees as legitimate

You make Kashmiris loyal, people will move on (in the case of Indian muslims- they are loyal so we do not care)

support for Kashmir is

A- people
B- water

Indian politicians have played politics over Indus, now if you play politics over water with a county of 200 million people
what do you expect them to do? starve to death

I think in mid 2010s or around that time, modi or someone in his government issued statements about Indus treaty
now that situation calmed down because China has Tibet so you know in the end they hold all the cards (through backdoor channels they threatened that they will do the same to India)...

So Indus treaty was good but shouldn't be politicized

Actually, the answer is going to be outside of this unsaid agreement. I've met a few Kashmiris from India. They don't side with Pakistan. That doesn't mean there aren't Kashmiris that want to join Pakistan or be independent, but the one's I've met, align with India like the rest of Indian citizens. Just my two cents based on actual interactions.

In this "unsaid" agreement, the Kashmiris aren't asked, nor did they have a say. It's between India-Pak and US is the facilitator and the no war pact is the outcome.



This time's over. The flashpoint was Kashmir and it's done and settled with a no war pact in place.

when did it come about

after 2019 or pre 2019?

and if it is solved than it'll be gradual reduction in hostilities?
cause I am not seeing any signs of cooling down anywhere- so its hard to believe tbh

 

[CriticalThinker02]

All hope is not lost for Pakistan. The China card is still on the table. If Pakistan can convince China to open a front in the North, then there will be a real possibility for Pakistan to take Kashmir.

Read your own military analyst like Pravin Sawhney, it will not be a two front war which is a thing of the past, it will be a reinforced one front war, you are severely underestimating the interoperability between the PLA and the Pak Army.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Read your own military analyst like Pravin Sawhney, it will not be a two front war which is a thing of the past, it will be a reinforced one front war, you are severely underestimating the interoperability between the PLA and the Pak Army.

yep, ill read up on the drills between PLA and PA (although its very secretive but whatever that comes out)
what ever is happening, its interesting

(it opens up our IB, it'll get run over, dumb strategy though- their can never be a military solution for Kashmir, trust me- that goes for both sides)

 

[Wood]

Just curious, did you know that "behind the scenes" this issue has been "settled for good"? And thus, there was a no war pact? The lines as they are are now a de-facto international border. No wars and after a few years of peace, the people of Kashmir will be allowed to come and go with proper documentation (kind of how it's on the Afghan-Pakistan border). Hopefully, a day might come when trade could be initiated through the roads from other areas.

If it is too good to be true, then it is probably not! This is everything that India wants and therefore, I do not see things play out this way. At best, there is a temporary rest for both sides to lick their wounds and recuperate.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

yep, ill read up on the drills between PLA and PA (although its very secretive but whatever that comes out)
what ever is happening, its interesting

(it opens up our IB, it'll get run over, dumb strategy though)

You still don't get it, the enemy will be blind just like in feb 27, there will be many asymmetric cyber, electromagnetic, AI and communication disruptive warfare taking place along with the traditional manpower and hardware war and this will be a major factor specially during the air war, the world is no longer present at desert storm, you guys need to update your thinking accordingly.

 

[Wood]

Read your own military analyst like Pravin Sawhney, it will not be a two front war which is a thing of the past, it will be a reinforced one front war, you are severely underestimating the interoperability between the PLA and the Pak Army.

Yes, I'm aware of this reinforced one front war. I simply think that a two front war will be a bigger logistical nightmare for India - all things considered.

 

[Maula Jatt]

You still don't get it, the enemy will be blind just like in feb 27, there will be many asymmetric cyber, electromagnetic, AI and communication disruptive warfare taking place along with the traditional manpower and hardware war and this will be a major factor specially during the air war, the world is no longer present at desert storm, you guys need to update your thinking accordingly.

dude don't take this guy too seriously
He puts down India down way too much and assumes that China has all the ancient Vedic weaponry... haha

China is strong, very strong indeed but he overplays it a lot and underplay his side a lot (as he should but its not for us to base our thinking around)

 

[Wood]

We, the brown people, lack basic IQ and the very basics of human social mechanics. We are already destined to die with each other's hands.
There are millions of good things out there, which if we adopt, the subcontinent can become a powerhouse for the world.
Thousands of people have suggested millions of solutions to the Kashmir issue. The problem is, whether we want to implement them?
No one wants. And no one will let any good solution be implemented.

Its in the mentality.

I doubt that South Asia will become a powerhouse just by resolving border disputes like Kashmir. The larger problem is the diversity (in population) and the lack of resources in relative to the population count. It has nothing to do with IQ or anything.

Just my view.