Concepts / Ideas for the Pakistan Navy

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I thought I'd start a thread that discusses concepts or ideas the Pakistan Navy (PN) should pursue in the coming years.

Note: I'm open to talking about developmental ideas, recommended purchases, etc. Just keep it within reason.

For example, I was looking through some of the things Turkey's working on at IDEF 2021, and noticed STM's new 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' (MPAC). I think the MPAC can be a good idea of where the PN can take the FAC(M) / Azmat-class should the PN need a larger mini-corvette type of platform (via DefenceTurk).

I think we can stretch the FAC(M) to retain its AShW/LACM capacity but also add ASW capabilities. In fact, Turkey is developing its own torpedo-tube launchers for its lightweight torpedoes. We basically have an option to build a low-cost multi-mission solution to fill our littoral waters.

 

[Aesterix]

Anti Ship Ballistic missile. But this time not something from the 90s , re fitted , but something from this day and age.
I bet you indian Agni P will have ASBM capabilities, which will put PN at a great disadvantage as all cruise missiles are less than 700km range and India with ASBM won't let PN come that close, rendering cruise missile capability unusable.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Anti Ship Ballistic missile. But this time not something from the 90s , re fitted , but something from this day and age.
I bet you indian Agni P will have ASBM capabilities, which will put PN at a great disadvantage as all cruise missiles are less than 700km range and India with ASBM won't let PN come that close, rendering cruise missile capability unusable.

P282

I thought I'd start a thread that discusses concepts or ideas the Pakistan Navy (PN) should pursue in the coming years.

Note: I'm open to talking about developmental ideas, recommended purchases, etc. Just keep it within reason.

For example, I was looking through some of the things Turkey's working on at IDEF 2021, and noticed STM's new 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' (MPAC). I think the MPAC can be a good idea of where the PN can take the FAC(M) / Azmat-class should the PN need a larger mini-corvette type of platform (via DefenceTurk).

I think we can stretch the FAC(M) to retain its AShW/LACM capacity but also add ASW capabilities. In fact, Turkey is developing its own torpedo-tube launchers for its lightweight torpedoes. We basically have an option to build a low-cost multi-mission solution to fill our littoral waters.

View attachment 771345

I’m still waiting to see those 20 indigenous FAC/Gun-boats that the CNS mentioned. But I do think there’s room for more FACs in the navy, the Azmat design can’t definitely be improved with Turkish help, iirc the last ship of the class was designed and made without the OEM specifications, I.E. without Chinese help, hence we can surely modify it further.

 

[aziqbal]

I am a big fan of nuclear weapons

Our navy must at all costs have nuclear capability

This means submarine launched second strike with 1,000km range inshalalh

 

[untitled]

Drone carriers

 

[Falconless]

Merging the MSA and CG into a competent coastal defence and rescue force.

 

[Tipu7]

We should give ideas in the believable realm, and propose concepts about projects which are already in pipeline.

Like, Gun boats, Missile Boats, Auxiliary vessels, Drones, helicopters, MLU of Zulfiquar class, SWATs etc etc.

Important is to identify the strategic needs and doctrinal requirements first, and then do brainstorming.

Anti Ship Ballistic missile. But this time not something from the 90s , re fitted , but something from this day and age.
I bet you indian Agni P will have ASBM capabilities, which will put PN at a great disadvantage as all cruise missiles are less than 700km range and India with ASBM won't let PN come that close, rendering cruise missile capability unusable.

Agni P will be part of Indian nuclear deterrence. It won't be employed, and cannot be employed as ASBM.

There is no ASBM in development in this region. Future belongs to HSCMs and HSGVs.

I am a big fan of nuclear weapons

Our navy must at all costs have nuclear capability

This means submarine launched second strike with 1,000km range inshalalh

Why would Pakistan need such a long range SLBM? It's impractical.
All we need is to cover couple of thousands kms range to posses assured sea borne nuclear strike capability.

 

[FuturePAF]

Building up the merchant fleet to be fishing in the entire EEZ, a trip wire force that can keep an eye on activity in the EEZ. It’s dual purpose and sustainable through the fishing revenue. Adding special masts to the ships with the right kind of sensors (nothing cutting edge) will allow real time data back to shore, but keeping them unarmed will allow them to be classified as civilian for all intents and purposes. Hundreds of modern fishing ships all through out the EEZ and along the borders of the EEZ and near the SLOCs in the EEZ will allow Pakistan navy to keep eyes and ears open for any dangers. Similar to the air forces binoculars forces on the borders but with modern equipment.

especially if these ships can become motherships for cheap sensors like Talons

 

[khansaheeb]

We need to have a multi-layered Naval defence system and ways of offensive power projection. Key to the future is ship launched extended range drones and autonomous torpedoes and submarines.

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

To have formidable navy need money we should concentrate on our economy to pose some treat to Indian navy we need 4 destroyers with 7000 tonnage with at least one aircraft carrier means at least 12 billion dollar to buy plus maintenance cast which need good economy

 

[313ghazi]

I like the idea of UCAV's for the navy. PN don't have an airwing of their own, PAF is limited in it's resources for the moment, a fleet of UCAV would help give PN airstrike capability, and would also likely be difficult to intercept.

Also in the way we have AWAC's, can we create some sort of unmanned unarmed vessels with sonar/radar/datalink which could be used to help map the battlefield during conflict? Would it be possible to have something small, swift which could also submerge when required to do just this?

This is an excellent idea. Unmanned vessels mean we could store more weapons on them, and make them more compact.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I thought I'd start a thread that discusses concepts or ideas the Pakistan Navy (PN) should pursue in the coming years.

Note: I'm open to talking about developmental ideas, recommended purchases, etc. Just keep it within reason.

For example, I was looking through some of the things Turkey's working on at IDEF 2021, and noticed STM's new 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' (MPAC). I think the MPAC can be a good idea of where the PN can take the FAC(M) / Azmat-class should the PN need a larger mini-corvette type of platform (via DefenceTurk).

I think we can stretch the FAC(M) to retain its AShW/LACM capacity but also add ASW capabilities. In fact, Turkey is developing its own torpedo-tube launchers for its lightweight torpedoes. We basically have an option to build a low-cost multi-mission solution to fill our littoral waters.

View attachment 771345

Laser defensive and offensive weapon. This technology will also benefit Air Force

 

[FuturePAF]

I like the idea of UCAV's for the navy. PN don't have an airwing of their own, PAF is limited in it's resources for the moment, a fleet of UCAV would help give PN airstrike capability, and would also likely be difficult to intercept.

Also in the way we have AWAC's, can we create some sort of unmanned unarmed vessels with sonar/radar/datalink which could be used to help map the battlefield during conflict? Would it be possible to have something small, swift which could also submerge when required to do just this?



This is an excellent idea. Unmanned vessels mean we could store more weapons on them, and make them more compact.

some unmanned vessels especially when it comes to arming, but I was suggesting putting sensors on manned unarmed fishing boats; a picket force. Similar to the Chinese maritime militia (the “little blue men” concept). Soviets used trawlers for this all the time in the Cold War.

 

[sparten]

PLATFORMS
1) Carrier vessel. Ideally a small to midsized carrier, able to accommodate 20 or so jets to provide air defence to the fleet.....like the Italians of WW2 we are living in a fools paradise if we think that we don't need carriers, that land-based airpower is sufficient and they were operating in the narrow Mediterranean, not the open ocean as we are.
2) SSBN. Natch. 16 or so BM's. 4-5 vessels to ensure that at least one is continuously at sea.
3) 2-3 large Destroyers/cruisers, to carry the new hypersonic missile. The frigates are too small.
4) Maybe adapt some smaller vessels into ASW ships.

MUNITIONS
1)We need more multi role missiles on ships. The Yanks have shown the way. We should try and add as many Babar CM's onto ships as possible, even if box lanchers have to be used,

2) And adapt the Ra'ad for shipborne naval use, like the AGM158C LRSM is adapted from the JASSM-ER. Its already stealthy and can strike a long way over the horizon.

The carrier and the ASW can be made cheaper if we use commercial hulls. For instance, PAEC makes or made large merchant ships, those can be used as the basis for a Carrier (like HMS Ocean) and I have always thought that their coastal tanker can form the basis of an excellent ASW platform.

Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works Limited

 

[313ghazi]

PLATFORMS
1) Carrier vessel. Ideally a small to midsized carrier, able to accommodate 20 or so jets to provide air defence to the fleet.....like the Italians of WW2 we are living in a fools paradise if we think that we don't need carriers, that land-based airpower is sufficient and they were operating in the narrow Mediterranean, not the open ocean as we are.
2) SSBN. Natch. 16 or so BM's. 4-5 vessels to ensure that at least one is continuously at sea.
3) 2-3 large Destroyers/cruisers, to carry the new hypersonic missile. The frigates are too small.
4) Maybe adapt some smaller vessels into ASW ships.

MUNITIONS
1)We need more multi role missiles on ships. The Yanks have shown the way. We should try and add as many Babar CM's onto ships as possible, even if box lanchers have to be used,

2) And adapt the Ra'ad for shipborne naval use, like the AGM158C LRSM is adapted from the JASSM-ER. Its already stealthy and can strike a long way over the horizon.

The carrier and the ASW can be made cheaper if we use commercial hulls. For instance, PAEC makes or made large merchant ships, those can be used as the basis for a Carrier (like HMS Ocean) and I have always thought that their coastal tanker can form the basis of an excellent ASW platform.

Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works Limited

I think carriers are more trouble than their worth. They need a lot of resource to protect and they're only useful if you want to strike very far away. You can target 1000km from our coast with something as simple as the Burraq UCAV. Other models (good ones) could loiter out at sea for a day or so. The US has stuff that can fly around for 40+ hours.

They don't do air defence though - maybe it'd be better to spend the money required for a carrier and the fleet to protect it on the development of a UVAC with A2A capability?