Comsats University terminates lecturer over asking 'objectionable question' in quiz

[epebble]

so such questions will definitely be seen as normalisation of incest by most.

There is particular irony in this. Pakistanis have among the highest rate of consanguineous marriages, that most other countries in the world think is incest. Many marriages that are valid in Pakistan would not be permitted in my county.

Keeping it in the family: consanguineous marriage and genetic disorders, from Islamabad to Bradford

Marrying close family members is a tradition in many countries and among their emigrants, leading to higher rates of genetic disorders. Reporting from Islamabad, Martina Merten asks how these disorders can be reduced One billion people worldwide live in countries where marriage among relatives...

www.bmj.com

 

[Ssan]

There is particular irony in this. Pakistanis have among the highest rate of consanguineous marriages, that most other countries in the world think is incest. Many marriages that are valid in Pakistan would not be permitted in my county.

Keeping it in the family: consanguineous marriage and genetic disorders, from Islamabad to Bradford

Marrying close family members is a tradition in many countries and among their emigrants, leading to higher rates of genetic disorders. Reporting from Islamabad, Martina Merten asks how these disorders can be reduced One billion people worldwide live in countries where marriage among relatives...

www.bmj.com

The reason why people are against incest in Pakistan is because it is haram. Simple as. This is not a valid scenario to highlight moral dumbfounding. I am not morally dumbfounded reading the scenario and frankly I doubt any Muslim is.

 

[TheSolution]

There is particular irony in this. Pakistanis have among the highest rate of consanguineous marriages, that most other countries in the world think is incest. Many marriages that are valid in Pakistan would not be permitted in my county.

Keeping it in the family: consanguineous marriage and genetic disorders, from Islamabad to Bradford

Marrying close family members is a tradition in many countries and among their emigrants, leading to higher rates of genetic disorders. Reporting from Islamabad, Martina Merten asks how these disorders can be reduced One billion people worldwide live in countries where marriage among relatives...

www.bmj.com

The reason why people are against incest in Pakistan is because it is haram. Simple as. This is not a valid scenario to highlight moral dumbfounding. I am not morally dumbfounded reading the scenario and frankly I doubt any Muslim is.

Cousins are not the same as siblings

 

[epebble]

The reason why people are against incest in Pakistan is because it is haram. Simple as. This is not a valid scenario to highlight moral dumbfounding. I am not morally dumbfounded reading the scenario and frankly I doubt any Muslim is.

But why are they not against lesser forms of incest (besides siblings) that most other jurisdictions disallow or at least disfavor?

 

[Ssan]

But why are they not against lesser forms of incest (besides siblings) that most other jurisdictions disallow or at least disfavor?

Because it is not haram in Islam. According to their beliefs.

I think that we ought to be able to make the case that the govt can pass laws to disincentivize this based on public health reasons (as state can limit what is halal for public good) but that is not the point of this convo. If you want to discuss this, let’s open another thread.

The point is that the example by the professor is a dumb example of a morally confounding situation in Pakistan. Not so dumb in the west. But in Pakistan, really silly and stupid.

 

[epebble]

Because it is not haram in Islam. According to their beliefs.

This can cause culture clash. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar married someone that wouldn't be permitted in Minnesota. This led to her detractors saying she has married her 'brother' (likely, she married a cousin or uncle). Finally, to put the rumors to rest, she had to clarify what had happened. Despite being a Congresswoman, she has an 'active' personal life.

In 2002, Omar became engaged to Ahmed Abdisalan Hirsi (né Aden). She has said they had an unofficial, faith-based Islamic marriage. The couple had two children together, including Isra Hirsi, one of the three principal organizers of the school strike for climate in the US. Omar has said that she and Hirsi divorced within their faith tradition in 2008. In 2009, Omar married Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, a British Somali. According to Omar, in 2011 she and Elmi had a faith-based divorce and she reconciled with Hirsi, with whom she had a third child in 2012. In 2017, Elmi and Omar legally divorced, and Omar and Hirsi legally married in 2018. On October 7, 2019, Omar filed for divorce from Hirsi, citing an "irretrievable breakdown" of the marriage. The divorce was finalized on November 5, 2019. In March 2020, Omar married Tim Mynett, a political consultant whose political consulting firm, the E Street Group, received $2.78 million in contracts from Omar's campaign during the 2020 cycle.

 

[Ssan]

This can cause culture clash. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar married someone that wouldn't be permitted in Minnesota. This led to her detractors saying she has married her 'brother' (likely, she married a cousin or uncle). Finally, to put the rumors to rest, she had to clarify what had happened. Despite being a Congresswoman, she has an 'active' personal life.

In 2002, Omar became engaged to Ahmed Abdisalan Hirsi (né Aden). She has said they had an unofficial, faith-based Islamic marriage. The couple had two children together, including Isra Hirsi, one of the three principal organizers of the school strike for climate in the US. Omar has said that she and Hirsi divorced within their faith tradition in 2008. In 2009, Omar married Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, a British Somali. According to Omar, in 2011 she and Elmi had a faith-based divorce and she reconciled with Hirsi, with whom she had a third child in 2012. In 2017, Elmi and Omar legally divorced, and Omar and Hirsi legally married in 2018. On October 7, 2019, Omar filed for divorce from Hirsi, citing an "irretrievable breakdown" of the marriage. The divorce was finalized on November 5, 2019. In March 2020, Omar married Tim Mynett, a political consultant whose political consulting firm, the E Street Group, received $2.78 million in contracts from Omar's campaign during the 2020 cycle.

Neither here nor there.

To be honest, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth man.

Like the Benazir revelations too. I think let’s leave the personal lives of people private as long as they leave it private.

 

[KaiserX]

Actually this is a well known question, first posed by a Professor in the US many years ago, used to illustrate the concept of "moral dumbfounding" - but most people in India and Pakistan lack the critical faculty to appreciate it. I feel sorry for the COMSATS Prof. The poor guy was trying to teach a firang concept to his jaahil students but didn't realise the explosive blowback it would have.

What? this is such an idiotic question, even by western standards.. Had this been asked in a US university, students/faculty/parents would be up in arms protesting.

 

[LeGenD]

julie and mark need to behave

My man....

I would have tried to explain but it is pointless. If you care, you can use google to find out why the question is deliberately provocative and actually has nothing to do with fornication or incest but it meant to illustrate the difference in reaction due to emotion and reason. The reaction it has received in Pakistan actually illustrates thr point that the person who first posed it was trying to illustrate.

Oh please...

Even if the Lecturer understood what it was, these themes stick with young minds.

 

[Paji]

What? this is such an idiotic question, even by western standards.. Had this been asked in a US university, students/faculty/parents would be up in arms protesting.

Except that it has already been posed in many US universities, including the one where the Pakistani lecturer probably learnt of it, and has not elicited the kind of reaction it has in Pakistan.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Actually this is a well known question, first posed by a Professor in the US many years ago, used to illustrate the concept of "moral dumbfounding" - but most people in India and Pakistan lack the critical faculty to appreciate it. I feel sorry for the COMSATS Prof. The poor guy was trying to teach a firang concept to his jaahil students but didn't realise the explosive blowback it would have.

Dude, use common sense, premarital sex isn’t considered immoral or a crime in US, so you could say Prof in US did it to make it challenging ( even in US people will raise eyebrows). Prof in Pakistan needs to have enough common sense to tweak question appropriate to the society. Premarital sex in itself illegal and immoral in Pakistan, he is adding incense.

 

[LeGenD]

Except that it has already been posed in many US universities, including the one where the Pakistani lecturer probably learnt of it, and has not elicited the kind of reaction it has in Pakistan.

Do you understand that Pakistan is a different society and American openness does not apply here?

There are better ways to teach people about morality.

 

[Imran Khan]

Sir lagta hai hot stories bhut pardhta tha

 

[Paitoo]

my turn to do the exam hope i pass otherwise i be seeking asylum.

my conclusion: they both should have done it many times and with out pills or condom no rubber should come between their love. it should be skin to skin contact for true lovely memorable pleasure. however in a ideal world this would have been love jihad and she gets pregnant with beautiful twins.

Sir/madam did i pass? how about 100 rupee rishwat and love jihad as bonus.

Yaar @Azadkashmir, tu ghalat country mein paida ho gaya. You should be in India. The sleazy content market is exploding in India. Lot of adult web series being produced. They are always in need of script writers. If you have a good physique, you can act in your own stories. What do you say?

 

[epebble]

Except that it has already been posed in many US universities, including the one where the Pakistani lecturer probably learnt of it, and has not elicited the kind of reaction it has in Pakistan.

I think the Great Wall of China separating the cultures is not incest per se but the fundamental attitude of some cultures that allow anything to be questioned while it is a no-no in Islamic cultures. Ignore incest. Take for example Friedrich Nietzsche 's statement 'God is dead' as his basis for analyzing the impact of modernity on civilization. That is a perfectly fine topic to write an essay or a dissertation in non-Islamic cultures. But it would immediately be considered blasphemous and attract severe punishment in Islamic cultures.