Comparison between LCA Tejas and JF-17 Thunder in an A-to-A Scenario

[Bratva]

Check the results of Cope India 2004/5- the USAF were taken aback (somewhat) by the way the IAF used this little monster.

This doesn't make it superior to either the -16 or -15 but in certain circumstances and with the right tactics it can certainly hold its own.

So what? 6 Jf-17 recently went up against J-10 and SU-27 and F-16's. We know hoe to cope up with with Delta, 2 engine MKI sort of aircrafts as well as with western aircrafts. You are talking as if JF-17 is shooting ducks from last 9 years

 

[Stephen Cohen]

F-16 didnt follow the JF-17 trajectory and were inducted with very basic set of functions and were incremented up to a point which JF-17 Block III will reach.

F 16 is another beast altogether

JF 17 has its limitations the RD 93

And MINIATURISING an AESA from J 10 to JF 17 is not that easy

SO you should not take AESA for granted

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Wow an aircraft which cant even fly is compared to a serving aircraft which is evolving day by day. If JFT face any thing from LCA for coming 4 years is its manufacturing and assrmbling plant :p.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Now you are criticizing for the sake of criticizing. Instead of acknowledging, Not a single country in this whole world follow your approach of applying and integrating all the things from the get go.

So does it mean all the countries are wrong and India is right? Or is it other way around ?

The IAF is not taking a radically different approach, their bar is simply higher and their ASQRs more stringent. As such, to them, and most contemporary air forces, HMDS, IFR probes, twin seat trainers are not luxuries in the 21st century but NECESSITIES if the IAF was holding out for AESA radars then your comment would be valid. The PAF is an anomaly here for having inducted a plane in modern age devoid of many contemporary capabilities.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And, as I have pointed out, the LCA MK.1 entering service in 2016 will come with capabilities the Thunder will lack for the foreseeable future (Block 2 included).

Ah like ? What are the "shortcomings of JF-17"...

@Oscar. Listen to our PDF aviation expert ..

 

[Abingdonboy]

LCA maintenance would be a different beast. You have to train your technicians on servicing american engines. Then you have to train your staff on servicing all the foriegn components in LCA. Are you manufacturing Israeli radar in house ? The EW suite in LCA is still facing issues. Lets induct LCA first, then we will see if servicing LCA would be as easy as you are trying to paint.

A fair point.

Ah like ? What are the "shortcomings of JF-17"...

@Oscar. Listen to our PDF aviation expert ..

Shortcomings vis a vis the LCA.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

F-16,Mirages and JF-17 can talk with each other in encrypted voice because later two has R&S SDR.

And Frequency hopping is main feature of SDR these days. So good bye jamming. We can define 30-35 frequency channels all encrypted in SDR. How many channels you can Jam at one time ?

So JF-17 has a Female Touch.
Inventor of Frequency Hopping Radio below,
Anyone knows this gal?

 

[siddharth shankar]

Then with "certain tactics" so can F7PG, MIRAGE and Thunder against SU 30? Right sir?

Yes with Israeli jammers and avionics.

 

[majid mehmood]

Did I say this? I am only pointing to tangibles- HMDS, IFR probe, trainer/twin seat variant. All these are available on the LCA TODAY.

When will the HMDS come? No definite timeline.

IFR probe, yes this is coming on the BLOCK 2 (and that too only from the 20th production aircraft or so).

Twin seat? A lot os speculation, no proof anything is being worked upon on this front.

That said there is nothing the PAF can do about the structural composition of the Thunder.


There is no doubt the LCA today and at the time of induction will begin at a HIGHER base than the Thunder either of today or even the Thunder of the future (BLOCK 2). This is as a direct result of the different approaches the PAF and IAF have taken as I have outlined above. The PAF's haste has led to such shortcomings, the IAF's belligerent attitude has meant the LCA has had to deliver such capabilities from the outset.

As such with both aircraft being developed into the future the LCA will have inherent advantage as its base is inherently higher, there is already talk of producing LCA MK.1s with an AESA radar from 2017/18 onwards whilst the JF-17 Block.3 doesn't even promise this (as of yet).

blk 2 incorporate more composites than previuous block around 20%

 

[Bratva]

Did I say this? I am only pointing to tangibles- HMDS, IFR probe, trainer/twin seat variant. All these are available on the LCA TODAY.

When will the HMDS come? No definite timeline.

IFR probe, yes this is coming on the BLOCK 2 (and that too only from the 20th production aircraft or so).

Twin seat? A lot os speculation, no proof anything is being worked upon on this front.

That said there is nothing the PAF can do about the structural composition of the Thunder.


There is no doubt the LCA today and at the time of induction will begin at a HIGHER base than the Thunder either of today or even the Thunder of the future (BLOCK 2). This is as a direct result of the different approaches the PAF and IAF have taken as I have outlined above. The PAF's haste has led to such shortcomings, the IAF's belligerent attitude has meant the LCA has had to deliver such capabilities from the outset.

As such with both aircraft being developed into the future the LCA will have inherent advantage as its base is inherently higher, there is already talk of producing LCA MK.1s with an AESA radar from 2017/18 onwards whilst the JF-17 Block.3 doesn't even promise this (as of yet).

Does India has mission simulator of LCA ? No.

Does 2 seater is absolutely necessary for training? No. Because 70 pilots of JF-17 is converted on Mission simulators. This is testament to the fact 2 seater are luxury but not necessity.

I have already explained to you about why JF-17 is awaitng HMDS integration in another thread and how Block 1 and Block 2 are backward compatible to receive upgrades . But Yeah put aside all the logical reason while trying to score brownie points.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

is LCA somesort of luxury car IAF is buying because You are filthy rich guys ?

IAF wants all problems to be sorted out before
AND all the goodies installed before they give FOC

IAF has options you see Su 30 MKI and Rafale and MiG 29 and Mirage 2000

The LCA has a twin purpose

Boosting domestic capability and also IAF ' s fighting potential

 

[Spy Master]

The IAF is not taking a radically different approach, their bar is simply higher and their ASQRs more stringent. As such, to them, and most contemporary air forces, HMDS, IFR probes, twin seat trainers are not luxuries in the 21st century but NECESSITIES if the IAF was holding out for AESA radars then your comment would be valid. The PAF is an anomaly here for having inducted a plane in modern age devoid of many contemporary capabilities.

Now sir you are behaving like muhallay ki maasi...with no other argument left then High Bar...!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guess what the envisioned radar range of lca mkI with ELTA radar was 80km .. Which that were hassling with due to s faulty cone .. Reducing it to mere 50km.

Rectified with the Quartz crystal cone now integrated with the LCA. This was one of the main issues holding up FOC.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

A fair point.


Shortcomings vis a vis the LCA.

Point out the shortcomings ... You see in a layman when it conss to jets..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Now sir you are behaving like muhallay ki maasi...with no other argument left then High Bar...!

In the context of my argument it is a valid point .