StormBreaker
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Highlight the Turkish Imperialism kindly, and if any, what have we got to do with it ?
COAS met Turkish Minister of National Defence at GHQ
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Yankee-stani
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I understand but my vision for Pakistan is what I think the silent majority have always wanted a strong state, with respect in the world not being used by various regional and world powers for their schemes some Pakistanis want to condemn one form of imperialism yet ignore the other what Turkey is doing to the Mid East is no better than what Iran or Saudi this the tragedy of the Islamic world today we are fighting each other for differing interests destroying ourselves for so called "past glories" yet you have some people here that want to us have involvement in conflicts not caused by us this ticks me off I will condemn Turkish,Iranian and Gulf Arab imperialism in the region whether folks like it or not
Look what they been doing in Syria for almost 10 years, they help overthrow Gaddafi in Libya being member of NATO in 2011 Erdogan does trade with Israel while maintaining a facade of defender of "Al Aqsa" while his country destroys those countries countering Israel the only reason he is "repostioning" away from the US is because of double games from Washington
Ansu fati
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Brother let me ask you a question is it imperialism if Turkey is doing military incursion for protection of its borders???
We are not guilty if iraq and syria are unable to stop separatist terrorist organization against Turkey??
In somalia we are the only state from all muslims who is actively training the new somali army in libya yes there’s economic interest for the construction deals which were already signed before 2011 and some new ones after 2011 but the gas/oil agreement is in libya’s favor you don’t have to be genius to understand that just look the map and everything will be clear to you
Turkey isn’t promoting jihadism like saudis or iranians neither is supporting dictators
I understand that not everything done by Turkey is always 100% right but we are far away from being imperialists
StormBreaker
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I knew it since your first post, the pure intentions behind your thoughts, and that is your valid concern.
You like all of us want a Pakistan that is not following someone trying to become a leader like in the past USA, KSA, Iran and now Turkey. But try to understand, the difference between all of the said examples and compare them to Turkey, it is different altogether. Those in the past, used us as a bait. Turkey on the other hand, like i said earlier, is isolated, is inviting us for something that most of the world is rejecting us and that is LONG TERM joint researches, tech sharing, Defence Pacts, Joint Bloc, as well as not looking at us down rather as an ally shoulder to shoulder, write that.
We at the moment are not quite ready to become an influencing power, and you can thank our previous corrupt politicians for the unstable and weak as well as dependent economy. They day we almost become independent, you will not only see Pakistan Itself trying to influence the region ( this factor is affected by the leadership, Better is good ), but you will see various nations itself warming up with Pakistan, “PAISA SAB KUCH HAI”, Take example of Bangladesh, Bangladesh has a stable economy with insane GDP growth rate, 2 days ago KSA offered a $30bn package of investment in Bangladesh despite being a tiny unnoticeable country on the world map. India is another example, useless military but cheap labour, average education system but a huge economy and the potential of attracting indian investment into various offers by countries. We are lacking in this, and one day inshaAllah, we will be self sustaining, We will shine on the world map and the day is not far, if things go right, you can take 4-5 years max !!!
This is a critical time for Pakistan, good will become best, bad will become worst, there will be a conflict between the best and the worst, the victor will be decided by the common people, and the decision will judge the future of Pakistan as a country, as a Super Power and a strong economy.
Dont worry, we aren’t falling on the feet of Turkey or Malaysia or anyone else, if that was the case, we wouldn’t have missed the KL Summit. The new alliances being built is based on mutual understanding of political troubles, economic restrictions as well as international restrictions. Turkey and Malaysia knew our position with KSA, and hence they didn’t criticize us but them, this is called a true potential alliance.
@Mangus Ortus Novem
Ansu fati
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Has Turkey ever blackmailed Pakistan??
No!!!
Has Turkey divided pakistani society witn sectarian dirty tricks?
No!!! but saudi and iran have done it
Turkey is now “isolated” because gcc arabs+west fear that if Turkey fixes its problems with separatism and gas europe will be dominated by a great regional superpower
Turkey already has good enough defense industry which will only get better and better in the future we have account deficit because Turkey is importing very big amounts of gas/oil from aboard if this is fixed then only sky is the limit for turkish success
As @StormBreaker said everyone who is strong enough for conducting independent or semi independent foreign policy will try to do something else rather than being just blind supporter of already established block
Turkey was poor during cold war plus it was threatened by soviet with direct territory claims(remember bosphorus crisis eastern Turkey-Van city)
After the economy was liberalized and after 20-25 later turks are now able to do what is right for them not what suits american interests
In 1991 and later in 2003 Turkey was forced to accept separatist entity in iraq but in 90s turkish military dependence on US was 90%
Today it’s 20-30% and you already got assertive Turkey fighting for itself
If pakistan was economically stronger you wouldn’t allow to be blackmailed by saudis
5 years later inshallah you will get rid of this dependence and you will understand my point same situation with military dependence @OsmanAli98
No!!!
Has Turkey divided pakistani society witn sectarian dirty tricks?
No!!! but saudi and iran have done it
Turkey is now “isolated” because gcc arabs+west fear that if Turkey fixes its problems with separatism and gas europe will be dominated by a great regional superpower
Turkey already has good enough defense industry which will only get better and better in the future we have account deficit because Turkey is importing very big amounts of gas/oil from aboard if this is fixed then only sky is the limit for turkish success
As @StormBreaker said everyone who is strong enough for conducting independent or semi independent foreign policy will try to do something else rather than being just blind supporter of already established block
Turkey was poor during cold war plus it was threatened by soviet with direct territory claims(remember bosphorus crisis eastern Turkey-Van city)
After the economy was liberalized and after 20-25 later turks are now able to do what is right for them not what suits american interests
In 1991 and later in 2003 Turkey was forced to accept separatist entity in iraq but in 90s turkish military dependence on US was 90%
Today it’s 20-30% and you already got assertive Turkey fighting for itself
If pakistan was economically stronger you wouldn’t allow to be blackmailed by saudis
5 years later inshallah you will get rid of this dependence and you will understand my point same situation with military dependence @OsmanAli98
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Taimoor Khan
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If American nukes can be stationed at Incirlik, why cant Pakistan place its nukes and delivery systems on Turkisk soil? It will not only give Turkey a "second option" if Americans fails to deliver on their commitments under NATO umbrella but more importantly for Pakistan, it will give us huge leverages in that region , Europe, and ofcourse the snake called Israel which is hell bend on working with India to cause harm to Pakistan and its national interests.
Yankee-stani
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First off if Turkey wants nukes Pakistan would be the last option no1-Turkey despite their so called "balancing strategy" is heavily integrated with the west economically,socially(well sort of) and politically via NATO,besides the last decade Turkey is basically getting help with Nuclear energy from Russia as well but at the same time I am doubtful they would want nukes anyways
StormBreaker
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You are actually quite a sensible person, nice to interact with you.
In reply to @Taimoor Khan , i was about to write a long reply but felt exhausted !!
First off, The post, no offense to you Taimoor, quite a silly post !!
Out of anything Turkey is interested in, nukes would be the last one on the list if by any chance it is on the list. Turkey lacks the means to deliver them, boasting about nukes especially to US would be an extremely bad idea and Turkey would be left completely isolated even by EU and neighbors. Borrowing Nukes is something that has never happened, why would Pakistan risk its everything to just place 4 nukes inside Turkey ? Furthermore, US presence in Turkey will definitely lead to possible annexation of the facilities having such. A large scale US attack would be in place even to the possibility of getting nuked. Iran doesn’t even have nukes and yet you can see its state, imagine a Turkey with nukes.
Hakikat ve Hikmet
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A flower doesn’t bloom unless it’s time comes...
These definitely are in the cards waiting to be shown at the right time....
StormBreaker
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Btw brother, in terms of ballistic missiles, what does turkey have ? Never wondered before
Hakikat ve Hikmet
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It's being developed at a fast pace as far as I have understood.....
The Turkish folks have a 2K years of running the state under the tremendous pressure and against enormous external enemies and the most traeacheous internal traitors!! Every moment is under an existential threat.....
Umair Nawaz
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if we help turkey, that will build pressure on Russia, to engage pakistan, rethink its relations with india, cancel S-400 and now that Akula 2 sub deals with it along with Nuclear co-operation and Brahmos agreements with it.
Russian ambassador to India has clearly said that Kashmir is an internal matter of India, it supports the indian stance as it has always been doing since Cold War era!
In SCO Its Russian Head had rejected Pakistan's request to involve and intervene and he refused saying Pakistan and India should not bring in their problem there even though its written in its charter that no country can attack each other and Pakistan did that back in march/april right after operation swift retort of india attacking Pakistan.
Now read this, They have also vetoed the recent resolutions on Kashmir along with 5 others!
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20...-kashmir-issue-again-at-unsc-indian-analysts/
This Syria of Bashar Al Asad is also on the side of India on Kashmir issue Syrian Ambassador to India has also said that Kashmir is an internal matter of India just like its Russian Master had said! even though its a UN recognized disputed territory. Removing him from Syria will serve our interests well. And will help making consensus on Kashmir issue as well.
As for Russia, it must end its relations with India if it wants to realistically realize its wishful thinking of ruling our Muslim World, as Countries like Pakistan are the ultimate Kings of this side of the World!
Russia meanwhile who is scared of selling us mere AK47s for the sake of its time tested and strategic ally India with whom it has a 30 years old strategic partnership and yr probably thinking that its still a friend of Pakistan, no its not! Vladimir Putin had made it clear that in 2015 that relations with Pakistan will never be at the cost of India and this is what he meant, below is the link of those AK47s, Pakistan was trying to buy them for FC.
https://theprint.in/defence/russia-...s-assures-india-of-no-deals-in-future/264004/
U my friend really need to stop reading RT too much.....Russia is of no use for Pakistan! Pakistan's only friends in this World are two Turkey and China, who stand up with us in our times of need, they are our time tested strategic friends! and if they r in need of something, we must also help them.
Turkey is hosting about 4 million of the Syrian refugees its taking the economical burden of them all by herself! Its in its right to fully intervene in Syrian affair since it directly effects its National security, it doesn't effects Russia's nor is Russia hosting Syrian refugees besides, its part of our own Muslim World, and its own problems is our business not some Christian Russia's.
Meanwhile this is what their media is reporting.......Abt President Erdogan's Kashmir remarks.
https://sputniknews.com/world/20200...-erdogan-over-his-kashmir-remark-in-pakistan/
While clearly India is being pampered by both Israel and America as a counterbalance to China in South Asia and in Indian Ocean, this is what Russian media is telling China. LOL
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20...-south-asia-not-an-option-for-india-analysts/
Russia must realize that its no longer a Soviet Union, its today a Country with only less then 150 million population, even Bangladesh has more then that what to speak of a powerful Country like Pakistan, who lives in a region and is key to her where 1/6th of the total Earth's population lives, and now specially post crimea crisis its heavily sanctioned country, the only 2 things Pakistan is really interested is its first UNSC vote on Kashmir by respecting the Pakistani stance, 2nd Its energy and Defence. Beyond that it does not offer anything to offer to a country the size of Pakistan who is 5th largest country on this planet Earth!
There is nothing really economical or strategic it can offer be it in SCO, BRICs or whatever. So speaking strictly from Pakistani interests in mind, there is nothing Russia can offer to Pakistan or can it?
Umair Nawaz
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o mister pathan! yr some 18 years old living in America, so u probably dont know our history ie the history of this region, there is a reason why Imran Khan has said that Turkic people ruled South Asia for centuries during Pres. Erdogan's visit to Pakistan!
We are with them, no matter what, and we dont care!
respect is earned kakay! these ruskies r underestimating pakistan a lot! its time to earn that respect back how we earned back in 1980s. Make these huge armed forces of pakistan to something useful!
Taimoor Khan
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I don't know how clued up you are, Erdogen has already expressed desire for nukes.
@StormBreaker , its a common knowledge that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia got similar deal when it comes to providing nuke umbrella to the kingdom. Its not a public document or agreement per say, but there is a lot written about it over the years. Something similar can be done with Turkey as well.
Besides, we have to think about our own national interests and look at extending our strategic depth to every corner of the planet, step by step. We cant simply stay in our shell and perpetually be on receiving end of the enemy nations pushing our strategic depth right on our borders and worse, like it happened in post 9/11, inside our borders. We have to wisen up, we have to use our strengths as leverages.
Yankee-stani
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Erdogan has not made moves towards making nukes or any of his officials in the govt as well, what you are quoting your sources is from several articles posted by mainly neo-conservative think tanks in Washington in 2015/2016 to hype up another excuse to squeeze Turkey away from thinking to "balance" its relations with Russia,China and Iran and place them firmly in the western camp, Turkey knows its place well, economically they are integrated with west, Erdogan can bark all he wants about America but we saw in 2018 its all bark they hit his economy real bad and the Lira he was forces to give up that Brunson dude easily what it shows Turkey has false sense of "bravado" so why would they want to take risks with nukes. As for us being in a shell we are what are as a people and nation the problem is we act like "followers" not leaders despite having nukes and strong armed forces we rather follow and try to act like servants for regional and world powers thats not right
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