CM Shehbaz announces metro bus, IT University for Faisalabad

[DJ_Viper]

By projects I refer to metro and things like IT and electrical infrastructure.

Even large cities like Jhang are lacking basic infrastructure, and educational facilities like a university.

I am not disagreeing with you that there aren't cities that lack infrastructure. The bigger industrial hubs get the most investments into infrastructure due to business and trade. For example, Kansas City has put in billions of dollars to become a top end city. But the remainder of Kansas includes pretty much small and mid-sized towns, nothing compared to Kansas City. Similarly, education facilities are much better in the bigger cities too.

Bigger cities have business and the taxation is big too, where more taxes are collected, more money is put into the infrastructure. Its not everyone's born right, its based on taxes a population pays.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Bigger cities have business and the taxation is big too, where more taxes are collected, more money is put into the infrastructure. Its not everyone's born right, its based on taxes a population pays.

Though this is a solid point, I would like to point out that at some point metropolises have to show meaningful benefit to the rural areas. There has to be some reverse flow of resources via taxation. Certain social services such as education (upto higher secondary level at least) as well as reasonable health facilities are born rights of a population, no matter where they are born or live.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

Napster,

It's just irony that our leader's claim to build modern and hi-tech hospitals, still visit London even for routine checkup's.

Maybe when your leaders visit London, it is not for "routine checkups". That may just be an excuse. There maybe some business deals to swing or ahem some nayan matkani to be indulged in....

Regards

 

[DJ_Viper]

Though this is a solid point, I would like to point out that at some point metropolises have to show meaningful benefit to the rural areas. There has to be some reverse flow of resources via taxation. Certain social services such as education (upto higher secondary level at least) as well as reasonable health facilities are born rights of a population, no matter where they are born or live.

Yes, you are right. Metros show positive benefits to the rural areas, which is why the metro first has to be established and matured up. Here, it seems as a few projects have finally started and people don't want them to finish, instead deviate attention to the "rural" areas. When your taxation increases your debt, that is usually a sign of stability and that is when the system matures to a point that extra money goes to Rural areas. Remember, local government means it runs on its local population's taxes. So first, everyone on here and not on here, need to pay their tax. We know from Hillary Clinton's time when she pushed hard on this topic that only 1% Pakistanis pay taxes. When 60% own their homes so they have average $ 150K equity. Yet....1% population pays taxes. So your real issue isn't why the infrastructure not being built in the rural areas, it is mainly why is the tax not paid by actual 40-60% of the population so there is additional money to be spend.

I think these posts on this topic are written rather with political taste and personal view points, than really having an understanding of how the government works with tax revenue.

 

[Zain tariq pk]

Only cosmetics

 

[Mumm-Ra]

For the current government, big ticket infrastructure projects have become the symbol of development and a sure fire way to increase their vote bank. It happened for them in the last general elections and I would not be surprised if it happens again this time. Once, the people will become used to these facilities and demand improvement in other areas of governance will the government focus of Human resource development, health and education etc.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

I am not disagreeing with you that there aren't cities that lack infrastructure. The bigger industrial hubs get the most investments into infrastructure due to business and trade. For example, Kansas City has put in billions of dollars to become a top end city. But the remainder of Kansas includes pretty much small and mid-sized towns, nothing compared to Kansas City. Similarly, education facilities are much better in the bigger cities too.

Bigger cities have business and the taxation is big too, where more taxes are collected, more money is put into the infrastructure. Its not everyone's born right, its based on taxes a population pays.

I can understand that, but Pakistan is very different to America.

In Pakistan large cities don't have access to the basic infrastructure or services that American ones do, so for me its completely illogical to take out such a large loan to finance some inner city transportation when many are literally on the street dying from a lack of food, healthcare, or shelter.

Also, tax collection in Pakistan is probably among the lowest in the world as only 1% of the population actually pays taxes, compared to most other countries where this figure is 15%. They don't build these projects based on the population, they build it for votes and kickbacks.

In the case of the large single-loan projects, nobody will notice if a few billion get siphoned into their personal account, and at the end they can just point and say that they are building all this infrastructure; this is much harder to do with something as basic as healthcare or education or policing, as those require constant administration and the fair distribution of funds.

I understand that growth is proportional to investment in infrastructure, but you have no idea how wasteful this Punjab government really is with those investments. Just compare the Lahore metro project with the Peshawar one, the huge differences are truly astonishing.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

They don't build these projects based on the population, they build it for votes and kickbacks.

I doubt there is a politician on this planet that does things for the love of the population. They do it for votes. They would mud wrestle their own mother if it gets them more votes.

In the case of the large single-loan projects, nobody will notice if a few billion get siphoned into their personal account, and at the end they can just point and say that they are building all this infrastructure

That's not how white collar crime works. That's the PP style of corruption. The PML-N choose a different course. One such way is to increase the cost of the project while supplying raw materials for the project at huge rates.

I understand that growth is proportional to investment in infrastructure, but you have no idea how wasteful this Punjab government really is with those investments. Just compare the Lahore metro project with the Peshawar one, the huge differences are truly astonishing.

Comparison with Peshawar Metro should be done when the project has been completed,not right now, when work has not even started on the project

 

[S.Y.A]

This one was inaugurated only a week ago.
http://www.eduvision.edu.pk/institu...313753169_air-university-multan-campus-multan

You do realize that it is a semi-private university, run by the air force? and not everyone will be able to afford studying there.
Most of the top class unis in Karachi and Punjab are private(LUMS, IBA, FAST, GIKI) or semi-private(NUST) and are too expensive for the general population.

As for UET, NED, KU, and PU, although they are govt unis, they will not be able to cater to everyone.

 

[SBD-3]

You do realize that it is a semi-private university, run by the air force? and not everyone will be able to afford studying there.
Most of the top class unis in Karachi and Punjab are private(LUMS, IBA, FAST, GIKI) or semi-private(NUST) and are too expensive for the general population.

As for UET, NED, KU, and PU, although they are govt unis, they will not be able to cater to everyone.

Its another university in Multan. Semi-Private also means Semi-Government, You're trying to call a glass half empty.

There are good reasons for private universities excelling all around. Even in US, the private Ivy league is way above the state universities in Standards.

 

[S.Y.A]

Its another university in Multan. Semi-Private also means Semi-Government, You're trying to call a glass half empty.

did you read beyond that? it means that not everyone will be afford studying there.

 

[SBD-3]

did you read beyond that? it means that not everyone will be afford studying there.

Punjab has PEEF for that, those who qualify, get through. But don't expect them to be crowded like PU and other universities. Their rejection rate is high (ITU for example, has about 95% rejection rate) IBA only takes in 1 out of 10 and so does LUMS and NUST. Its more complex than just allowing everybody to suck in. The average cost of hiring a PHD from a good US university is ~500K/Month. In private Universities you have PhDs from Central Asia, China, Malaysia,East Europe and UK who happily work for 200-300K/Month. Here's how I judge a university, I open the page of the school and go straight to the faculty's page. This gives me a fair idea about whether i'm running into an Good university or a crap one.
Not to mention these universities themselves run Talent Hunt Programs to encourage the students from less privileged areas.
IBA
LUMS
NUST
But don't expect them to offer their Masters program in 30,000 a year, its not feasible for them.

 

[S.Y.A]

Punjab has PEEF for that, those who qualify, get through. But don't expect them to be crowded like PU and other universities. Their rejection rate is high (ITU for example, has about 95% rejection rate) IBA only takes in 1 out of 10 and so does LUMS and NUST. Its more complex than just allowing everybody to suck in. The average cost of hiring a PHD from a good US university is ~500K/Month. In private Universities you have PhDs from Central Asia, China, Malaysia,East Europe and UK who happily work for 200-300K/Month. Here's how I judge a university, I open the page of the school and go straight to the faculty's page. This gives me a fair idea about whether i'm running into an Good university or a crap one.
Not to mention these universities themselves run Talent Hunt Programs to encourage the students from less privileged areas.
IBA
LUMS
NUST
But don't expect them to offer their Masters program in 30,000 a year, its not feasible for them.

still doesnt change the fact that they are out of the reach of most of the population. a govt university is not. that is my basic criticism of unveiling Air university and claiming it a victory for the provincial govt as if it would provide cheap education to the people of Multan or southern Punjab.

I graduated from NUST, didnt know that they have a talent hunt program, this the first I am hearing of it.

On the other hand, if the IT university is cheaper and offers quality education once built, that will be great, then one can proudly claim that we have quality universities while replying to people criticizing govt for not paying attention to the education department.

 

[DJ_Viper]

I can understand that, but Pakistan is very different to America.

In Pakistan large cities don't have access to the basic infrastructure or services that American ones do, so for me its completely illogical to take out such a large loan to finance some inner city transportation when many are literally on the street dying from a lack of food, healthcare, or shelter.

Also, tax collection in Pakistan is probably among the lowest in the world as only 1% of the population actually pays taxes, compared to most other countries where this figure is 15%. They don't build these projects based on the population, they build it for votes and kickbacks.

In the case of the large single-loan projects, nobody will notice if a few billion get siphoned into their personal account, and at the end they can just point and say that they are building all this infrastructure; this is much harder to do with something as basic as healthcare or education or policing, as those require constant administration and the fair distribution of funds.

I understand that growth is proportional to investment in infrastructure, but you have no idea how wasteful this Punjab government really is with those investments. Just compare the Lahore metro project with the Peshawar one, the huge differences are truly astonishing.

1) Do you have any facts to prove a "few billion" have in fact slipped out of the accounts into personal accounts? An Italian guy once told me that whoever eats Italian food with Garlic and Olive Oil, lives up to 100 years. Is it really true? Everyone eating Garlic gets to 100 years? So when you say things like "a few billions can easily slip into personal accounts", do the banks not know such large transactions? As like the US, Pakistan also has laws to report large transactions through an automated system. You think there won't be ONE guy in the entire Pakistan realizing a "few billion" slipped?

You are making it sound like these people have bought everyone. How silly is that? There are plenty of people who hate the government in Pakistan, right on this forum. I've read some seriously messed up stuff but its not my business. So none of the opposition people could ever know that a few billion people got slipped? How come there is "opposition parties" in Pakistan when it appears that everyone is in bed with them? If you'd like to debate with me, please be somewhat logical.

2) Tax population, yes, that is why the people in Pakistan are so rich! No one has paid taxes in the past 70 years! And no, 15% isn't the tax population of majority of the big countries, its over 50%! The bigger countries run on taxation, the entire governments, defense, etc, run on taxes.

3) What huge differences exist between Lahore and Peshawer metro projects? Enlighten me please with certified numbers. Wasn't metro a failed project to begin with (per many on here)? Now why is it being implemented in "their" hometowns? There has to be some sense when you write things like this. You can't just make general statements like we are talking about Cars and Clothes.

 

[Zibago]

2) Tax population, yes, that is why the people in Pakistan are so rich!

Nice alternative facts
http://www.pk.undp.org/content/paki...istanis-live-in-multidimensional-poverty.html

No one has paid taxes in the past 70 years!

Maybe if they would just start focusing more on direct instead of indirect taxes that are anti poor anti middle class we would be able to overcome our tax issue