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CM-400AKG: A tough job for the Indian Navy

well bhai ji leave aside LCA we still have the bisons which can make life hell for any thing pakistan has right now but thats not the point.

I thought I was talking to a person who had a general idea of how these things go , but as it stands out you neither know of aerial engagements and the effective ranges , international geopolitics , the limit of time during war , nor of the PAF and PN inventory and nothing of geography . After reading this bisons making life hell for everything just like everything is best case scenario for India and overestimation and exaggeration is the norm here , I can only say ' Give me a break ! '

Consider it my last reply , you are going way off topic without having an idea of things .

1. our carrier will be at 500 km distance.
2. our CBG ships will be at 300 km distance.
3. couple of sub,frigates, and destroyers etc will be brought to 200 km distance from your shore for the blockade.

You have got all three things wrong here , the accompanying ships of the carrier do not operate hundreds of KMs from the carrier itself . Neither they will be effective from such range . I mentioned something very important in my first post ' Why the carrier and not the warship ? ' Its apparent that Indians need to come close to the coastline and Pakistan will exploit that by all means .
 
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I know very well now that klj-7 radar has a detection of 135 km for target having RCS of 5m2 but that doesn't mean it can detect ships from 135km as well. Read the following link of klj-7 radar specification

The KLJ-7 has multiple modes, both beyond-visual-range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance modes and a robust anti-jamming capability. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in track-while-scan (TWS) mode and simultaneously fire on two BVR targets.The detection range for targets with a radar cross-section of 3 square meters is stated to be ≥75 km (≥35 km in look-down mode). Surface sea targets can be detected at up to 135 km.Most modern Chinese air-launched weapons, such as the short-range PL-9C and the beyond-visual-range PL-12 (SD-10) air-to-air missiles are supported by the KLJ-7. It has been reported that KLJ-7 also has modes to support a range of NATO weaponry.

Source : Jane's

You can confirm from there , if you have subscription . The detection range will be much higher for a target the size of a carrier . But the CM400 AKG from its launch platform , seems enough threat for other warships too .
 
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First of all , there was no need , none at all to post the entire inventory of IAF , forgetting completely in the meantime what the PAF has got to counter it with . I see a problem with this overestimation of one's own capabilities and underestimation of others . I am not denying that the Indian Airforce doesn't enjoy a conventional advantage over its counterparts , it just happens that the force on other side of the border is vigilant and ready and with the upgraded Mirages , F16's , F7 and JFT's in quite a number ( around 450 aircraft in total ) can more than hold on its own against the adversary . I will not go into details of who will engage whom since aerial engagements do not happen that why . The ground radars and AWACs you boast of and which I enlightened another member not too long on this very thread , are present on the other side of the border too so are the SAM systems . Honestly , what do you even know about PAF going by your posts ? Trust me , the SU30 MKI is just another variant of Flanker , a very capable aircraft with diverse systems but not in any way ' the God's gift to aviation ' as you portray it out to be and by no means ' undefeatable or invincible ' . Its massive RCS is a serious problem and it can be detected at longer ranges even though they hardly matters in this scenario because of the presence of AWACs on both sides of the border capable of scanning the air space of adversary at distances of 300-400 KMs . So track a bunch of JFT at 250 KMs by all means , the JFT will know the same and it only takes one missile hit to bring an aircraft down regardless of the role . Let me correct you , a structural modification like the one MKI's need to carry Brahmos are yet to be carried out and aren't minor modifications by any chance . In the meantime , the Mirages are already able to fire the Ra'ad ALCM . The Novtar K100 isn't such an effective missile to ' fire and forget ' and hit a moving AWACs to the point that till this date it hasn't been bought by any country despite being offered to be sold repeatedly , the Indians will be the first one to get it in the future . You have got it all messed up , why exactly does the PAF need to keep the AWAC's near the border when they have a range of 450 KMs and still able to detect potential threats whilst remaining deep inside Pakistani territory under cover . I explained to you earlier that aerial warfare isn't carried out by ' scrambling all the assets in the air ' at the same time . The rules of engagement and scenarios are different each time .

The ' Sea blockade ' you speak so repeatedly and know little of , isn't that easy to accomplish that a few subs and frigates move in with a carrier somewhere back and just shut down the Sea Lines of Communication without facing ' serious retaliation ' from the Pakistan Navy which is well equipped for low cost and committing far lesser assets ' sea denial ' strategy . The 11 surface combatants at the moment * not counting the newer ordered F22Ps * augmented by 5 submarines are more than enough to ensure the ' denial of the seas ' to IN . Again it appears , that you have little idea of what the PN fields . The P3C's are also used for the same role and its the Indian warships that have to come close to enforce a blockade , not our ones re read your own argument . Each asset can be tracked of , since we are right next door , it doesn't by any chance stop it from being effective against threats .

I do not seem to think that they will help us out of ' brotherhood ' but when paid , they will surely do business with Pakistan for oil and both the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are very close geographically to be blocked by something wandering some 500-600 KMs away as you assume . The Arabs have precious oil which is the reason for their alliance with US , what exactly do you have to offer besides countering China to assume the Americans will try to stop the sale to Pakistan or somehow assist you in the war ? Israel is a non-entity running completely on US support . You aren't the mighty giant yet , as you delude yourself . Besides the Karakorum Highway is always open for Pakistan to rely on .

I want to know one thing , if honestly the things are so much in your favor and the picture is so rosy , why haven't you attacked Pakistan yet ? You have threatened , mobilized and then backed off from the border without us firing a single shot in '87 Op.Brasstacks and '02 Op.Parakram and done nothing after the repeated warnings of ' surgical strikes ' Why ? :D There must be a reason right ?

Remember , one more thing , the max time , the Indian armed forces have got after the commencement of hostilities is at best not more than a week because the International pressure will mount in on both sides , with the UN asking for ceasefire and knowing the risk of impending nuclear war , the major powers will exert their influence on both countries . You do not have unlimited time on your hands , my friend . Besides that , you are faced with two threats . The Chinese will be itching to take advantage of any Indian weakness . That is why you devised the ' Cold Start ' but for even that , Pakistan had an answer .

Because , the dedicated maritime squadrons of JFT the naval aviation will be getting shortly equipped with C802/803 and CM400 AKG are more than enough to try and engage the Carrier Battle Group since they can be spared for this ' important mission ' , I have already explained how close the CBG's need to be in order to enforce an ' effective blockade ' . Talking of numbers , PAF will be procuring around 200-250 JFT's in total .



The same otherwise . Do you think we do not have ground based radars or this is merely your ignorance ? You may want to look at the map and see the location of both countries . Detect them from 600 KMs and yet you still have to come close for BVR aerial engagement , no BVR missile is effectively launched unless they get close to the 150 KMs range and even then the probability of actually hitting the target isn't that high .

well sir there are a few things you forgot if you have AWACS we have them too and owrs are bigger and better in every expact while you dont have enof fighters to wage a war on India all u can do is slow down owr thrust but the question is why would india attack you in first palce as there are other ways to choke you and bring you to table

all your startegies are about how will you respond when india attacks well be rest assured we will not attack you as we dont need to we can and are bleeding you dry by just making friends and buying the latest stuff rest work is done by your so called startegic assets and love towrds tit for tat response in every thing india buys or gets
now about the arab nations well dont live in a paradise arabs onli use u to keep afghanistan engaed so that the central asian oil & markets are not acessible to the world and thats that but u think its ummah or whatever you fancy point is all your friends used u and abondened you after there job was done and the funny thing is you never learn your lessons

now about karakoram highway well if there is a naval blokade do you realli think its difficult for us to choke one highway lolzzzz
even china is using you to contain india but you have a funny notion of friendship where were they in 1964, 1971, 1984 ,1999 he he he he keep dreaming

now about the novotar how do judge that its not efective well its good for us if you beleave so

the hard fact is that if push comes to shove you wont be able to do any thing other than explode a few tactical neukes and that to on your own soil as we are in prcess of taking ample measures for all u could throw on us but you dont have any defence if we do the same to you and make no mistake this time we wont show any mercy and niether china nor USA is coming to rescue you and fight your war with india all china will do is give you some free wepons and thats that


Hope u got my point sir
 
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I thought I was talking to a person who had a general idea of how these things go , but as it stands out you neither know of aerial engagements and the effective ranges , international geopolitics , the limit of time during war , nor of the PAF and PN inventory and nothing of geography . After reading this bisons making life hell for everything just like everything is best case scenario for India and overestimation and exaggeration is the norm here , I can only say ' Give me a break ! '

Consider it my last reply , you are going way off topic without having an idea of things .



You have got all three things wrong here , the accompanying ships of the carrier do not operate hundreds of KMs from the carrier itself . Neither they will be effective from such range . I mentioned something very important in my first post ' Why the carrier and not the warship ? ' Its apparent that Indians need to come close to the coastline and Pakistan will exploit that by all means .
No The accompanying ships got a radar range of 400km and Sam coverage of 70 km so they obviously will be operating at least 100km to make use of full range of it's defence systems and reduce reaction time need if some fighter jet sneak in and the first ship missed it, or a missile the first ship failed to engage which is targeted towards the carrier, etc risks.
yes our ships will come as close as 200km distance, but not the CBG, they will be providing the necessary air cover for themselves, as well as the other ships which come closer to your shore, there fighters will force back your p3c etc from attacking our submarines..only fighter jets from both sides are allowed in the area.
 
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Hope u got my point sir

I cant get any point from a post which is full of chest thumping and rhetoric . That is why I said to consider it my last reply since you know little of things , but are keen to overestimate yourself and underestimate the enemy . Quote me again , when you can bring Pakistan to the table or neutralize the nuclear threat .
 
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I thought I was talking to a person who had a general idea of how these things go , but as it stands out you neither know of aerial engagements and the effective ranges , international geopolitics , the limit of time during war , nor of the PAF and PN inventory and nothing of geography . After reading this bisons making life hell for everything just like everything is best case scenario for India and overestimation and exaggeration is the norm here , I can only say ' Give me a break ! '

Consider it my last reply , you are going way off topic without having an idea of things .



You have got all three things wrong here , the accompanying ships of the carrier do not operate hundreds of KMs from the carrier itself . Neither they will be effective from such range . I mentioned something very important in my first post ' Why the carrier and not the warship ? ' Its apparent that Indians need to come close to the coastline and Pakistan will exploit that by all means .

Yeah you figured out very right. There is no need to waste time and energies and talking sense to delusional indians. Any one in india having access to internet is self proclaimed defence analyst. There is only one man who knows exactly how to deal with indians and he is zaid hamid. Just see how much they are obsessed with him. He knows how to troll the trolls :rofl:
 
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No The accompanying ships got a radar range of 400km and Sam coverage of 70 km so they obviously will be operating at least 100km to make use of full range of it's defence systems and reduce reaction time need if some fighter jet sneak in and the first ship missed it, or a missile the first ship failed to engage which is targeted towards the carrier, etc risks.
yes our ships will come as close as 200km distance, but not the CBG, they will be providing the necessary air cover for themselves, as well as the other ships which come closer to your shore, there fighters will force back your p3c etc from attacking our submarines..only fighter jets from both sides are allowed in the area.

I know the accompanying ships have a radar range of hundreds of KMs which believe me or not isn't anything special in today's scenario . But still for some reason , the carrier battle group , the frigates , the destroyers and the submarines stay close to the AC , not 100-200 KMs away mainly for the purpose of protection from what I have read about them .

Then we do not need to target the Aircraft carrier , but the warships coming close and posing a threat . The AC isn't a threat from that far and CM400 AKG is basically an anti-ship missile being named as ' aircraft killer ' because of its flight profile , hypersonic dive and kinetic impact . Rest is all irrelevant , both sides have got it and both will use it .
 
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Yeah you figured out very right. There is no need to waste time and energies and talking sense to delusional indians. Any one in india having access to internet is self proclaimed defence analyst. There is only one man who knows exactly how to deal with indians and he is zaid hamid. Just see how much they are obsessed with him. He knows how to troll the trolls :rofl:

Yeah , it was going nowhere except the ' imagined victory ' and ' Pakistan cant do jack during war ' part which was literally hilarious to say the least :rofl: . I was laughing at the constant overestimation of their-selves and underestimation of the enemy , with a complete package with rhetoric and constant chest thumping . These kids need to understand that their country mobilized and backed off both in '87 and '02 and sent warnings after Mumbai attacks of ' surgical strikes ' which no one in Islamabad paid any heed to knowing the past behavior , they just put the airforce on high alert and conveyed the ' we are ready ' message when the Sukhois intruded in Lahore district . Hallucinations of Pakistan ' asking for mercy ' , honestly ! :lol:

Maybe their generals know better than them , right ?
 
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koi launch pic nahin koi news report nahin.. aise hi dhool mein latth chala rahe hai pakistani yahan
 
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Yeah , it was going nowhere except the ' imagined victory ' and ' Pakistan cant do jack during war ' part which was literally hilarious to say the least :rofl: . I was laughing at the constant overestimation of their-selves and underestimation of the enemy , with a complete package with rhetoric and constant chest thumping . These kids need to understand that their country mobilized and backed off both in '87 and '02 and sending warnings after Mumbai attacks which no one in Islamabad paid any heed to knowing the past behavior , they just put the airforce on high alert and conveyed the ' we are ready ' message when the Sukhois intruded in Lahore district . Hallucinations of Pakistan ' asking for mercy ' , honestly ! :lol:

Maybe their generals know better than them , right ?
I doubt it :D Their army chief claimed the capabilites of fighting two front war :rofl:
 
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I know the accompanying ships have a radar range of hundreds of KMs which believe me or not isn't anything special in today's scenario . But still for some reason , the carrier battle group , the frigates , the destroyers and the submarines stay close to the AC , not 100-200 KMs away mainly for the purpose of protection from what I have read about them .

Then we do not need to target the Aircraft carrier , but the warships coming close and posing a threat . The AC isn't a threat from that far and CM400 AKG is basically an anti-ship missile being named as ' aircraft killer ' because of its flight profile , hypersonic dive and kinetic impact . Rest is all irrelevant , both sides have got it and both will use it .
ok back on topic tell me at whats the safe distance to fire that on any of owr ship and to guide it safeli so as it hits the target as you have already told thats its a ASM and what according to you is the range till it has to go into terminal flight mode after that its owr luck but how close you have to bring it to fire and what according to you are its chances SIR
 
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Doesn't a ballistic missile attain such speeds at some time during the flight ? You mention the conventional shape limited ability to sustain hypersonic speeds but it doesn't get to Mach 5 or above until the terminal dive as I explained before . The advancement in material sciences may have played a part here too . The CM400 AKG isn't believed to be based on YJ-12 but on SY 400 strategic rocket system . I think @AhaseebA can clarify the ' limitations ' part .

Ballistic missiles (SRBMs) achieve speeds greater than Mach 5 during flight. The shape of the missile does not limits its ability to go beyond Mach 5 because it is not an air breathing system. It is just like a ballistic missile with a conical nose.

For further comparison regarding the heat sustaining capability of the seeker section, the Pershing-II missile had a radar seeker (area correlator) on the nose tip, and had a max velocity of Mach 9.
 
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I know the accompanying ships have a radar range of hundreds of KMs which believe me or not isn't anything special in today's scenario . But still for some reason , the carrier battle group , the frigates , the destroyers and the submarines stay close to the AC , not 100-200 KMs away mainly for the purpose of protection from what I have read about them .

Then we do not need to target the Aircraft carrier , but the warships coming close and posing a threat . The AC isn't a threat from that far and CM400 AKG is basically an anti-ship missile being named as ' aircraft killer ' because of its flight profile , hypersonic dive and kinetic impact . Rest is all irrelevant , both sides have got it and both will use it .
some new info coming.
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/l.../Defense/aircraft-carrier-invulnerability.pdf
U.S. Carrier Group tactics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
in the light of this new info.

1. outer layer should be
CAP>ASW ship and picket ships(small ships). at 370+ km distance.
2. The CAP(combat air patrol ) is usually positioned 160 to
180 nautical miles (300 to 330 km)
from the units to be protected, along
the expected threat axis.

3.The units of the outer
screen[ASW (anti sub warfare )ships and helicopters and AAW (anti air warfare ships) ] operate between 12 and 25
nautical miles (22 and 46 km) from
the main body. The inner screen is
within 10 nautical miles (19 km) of
the HVUs(hight value targets )

4. Air defence ship(agis) will stay closer to the carrier, first one at 19km distance second one at 33 to 45 km if possible.
5. An AEW unit in a race-track
loiter 100 nautical miles (190 km)
ahead of the PIM, (what's PIM ?)with a fighter
escort, is perfect.
6.Us navy operates it's carrier at 370 km distance from shore.super hornet has a combat radius of 722 km only compared to mig's 850km. so we can operate our carrier at 500 km distance initially and later come down to 400 km distance for easy operations.
 
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some new info coming.

1. outer layer should be
CAP>ASW ship and picket ships(small ships). at 370+ km distance.
2. The CAP(combat air patrol ) is usually positioned 160 to
180 nautical miles (300 to 330 km)
from the units to be protected, along
the expected threat axis.

3.The units of the outer
screen[ASW (anti sub warfare )ships and helicopters and AAW (anti air warfare ships) ] operate between 12 and 25
nautical miles (22 and 46 km) from
the main body. The inner screen is
within 10 nautical miles (19 km) of
the HVUs(hight value targets )

4. Air defence ship(agis) will stay closer to the carrier, first one at 19km distance second one at 33 to 45 km if possible.
5. An AEW unit in a race-track
loiter 100 nautical miles (190 km)
ahead of the PIM, (what's PIM ?)with a fighter
escort, is perfect.
6.Us navy operates it's carrier at 370 km distance from shore.super hornet has a combat radius of 722 km only compared to mig's 850km. so we can operate our carrier at 500 km distance initially and later come down to 400 km distance for easy operations.

HappY DreamS :sleep::sleep::sleep:
 
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