What's new

Clueless on China

Fighter488

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
0
Clueless on China

Brahma Chellaney Friday, July 9, 2010 0:14 IST

Yet another round of India-China border talks took place in Beijing a few days ago. The unending and fruitless talks on territorial disputes underscore the eroding utility of this process.

It is approaching three decades since China and India began these negotiations. In this period, the world has changed fundamentally. Indeed, with its rapidly accumulating military and economic power, China has emerged as a great power in the making. Not only has India allowed its military and nuclear asymmetry with China to grow, but New Delhi’s room for diplomatic maneuver is shrinking.

Power asymmetry in inter-state relations does not mean the weaker side must bend to the dictates of the stronger or seek to propitiate it. Wise strategy, coupled with good diplomacy, is the art of offsetting military or economic power imbalance with another state.

But by staying engaged in the useless border talks, knowing fully well that Beijing has no intention of settling the territorial issues, India plays into China’s hands. The longer the process of border talks continues, the greater the space Beijing will have to mount strategic pressure on India and the greater its leverage in the negotiations.

After all, China already holds the military advantage on the ground. Its forces control the heights along the long 4,057kmHimalayan frontier, with the Indian troops perched largely on the lower levels.

Furthermore, by building new railroads, airports and highways in Tibet, China is now in a position to rapidly move additional forces to the border to potentially strike at India at a time of its choosing.

Diplomatically, China is a contented party, having occupied what it wanted —the Aksai Chin plateau, which is almost the size of Switzerland and provides the only accessible Tibet-Xinjiang route through the Karakoram passes of the Kunlun Mountains.

Yet it chooses to press claims on additional Indian territories as part of a grand strategy to gain leverage in bilateral relations and, more importantly, to keep India under military and diplomatic pressure.

At the core of its strategy is an apparent resolve to indefinitely hold off on a border settlement with India through an overt refusal to accept the territorial status quo. In not hiding its intent to further redraw the Himalayan frontiers, Beijing only helps highlight the futility of the ongoing process of political negotiations.

After all, the territorial status quo can be changed not through political talks but by further military conquest. Yet, paradoxically, the political process remains important for Beijing to provide the façade of engagement behind which to seek India’s containment.

Beijing originally floated the swap idea — giving up its claims in India’s north-east in return for Indian acceptance of the Chinese control over a part of Ladakh — to legalise its occupation of Aksai Chin. It then sang the mantra of putting the territorial disputes on the backburner so that the two countries could concentrate on building close, mutually beneficial relations. But in more recent years, in keeping with its rising strength, China has escalated border tensions and military incursions while assertively laying claim to Arunachal Pradesh.

The present border negotiations have been going on since 1981, making them the longest and the most-barren process between any two countries in modern history. The record includes eight rounds of senior-level talks between 1981 and 1987, and14 joint working group meetings between 1988 and 2002. The latest discussions constitute the 14th rounds of talks between the designated Special Representatives since 2003.


The People’s Daily — the Communist Party mouthpiece that reflects official thinking — made it clear last summer: “China won’t make any compromises in its border disputes with India.

” What does India gain by staying put in an interminably barren negotiating process with China? By persisting with this process, isn’t India aiding the Chinese engagement-with-containment strategy by providing Beijing the cover it needs? While Beijing’s strategy and tactics are apparent, India has had difficulty defining a gameplan and resolutely pursue clearly laid-out objectives.

Staying put in a barren process cannot be an end in itself for India.
India has retreated to an defensive position territorially, with the spotlight now on China’s Tibet-linked claim to Arunachal Pradesh than on Tibet’s status itself. That neatly meshes with China’s long-standing negotiating stance: What it occupies is Chinese territory, and what it claims must be on the table to be settled on the basis of give-and-take —or, as it puts it in reasonably sounding terms, on the basis of “mutual accommodation and mutual understanding.”

As a result, India has been left in the unenviable position of having to fend off Chinese territorial demands. In fact, history is in danger of repeating itself as India gets sucked into a 1950s-style trap. The issue then was Aksai Chin; the issue now is Arunachal.


Clueless on China - dnaindia.com
 
.
VIEW: China’s growing role in South Asia —Abhishek Parajuli

China moved as early as the 1960s to clear border disputes with Nepal, often to Nepal’s advantage. The goodwill this earned is clear from the fact that in 2008 Nepal sought Chinese help in settling its disputes with India

In February 2010, Vikas Bajaj wrote in the New York Times that China’s expanding sphere of influence could “eventually” undermine India’s pre-eminence in South Asia. I disagree. It already has.

India’s ‘soft power’ is much touted. It is supposedly a counter-weight to Chinese influence. While such talk is comforting to Sinophobes, to say that India’s reputation in much of its immediate neighbourhood is bad would be an understatement. China, on the other hand, is wooing the region. How these two powers operate in tiny developing countries like Nepal says a lot about the support they will receive in the international field.

India likes to think of Nepal as an ally. The Nepalese across the political spectrum look at India as a meddlesome bully. And with good reason. In June, India stopped the shipment of over 1,000 metric tonnes of newsprint imported by two Nepali newspapers. India is the only port for getting this newsprint to landlocked Nepal, and this action went against the Nepal-India Trade and Transit Treaty. India says the 28-day stoppage was caused due to a routine inspection. Many Nepalese see a link between the critical posture the papers adopted towards New Delhi and the incident. Regardless of what caused the delay, in the soft power battle for whose story wins, India lost.

If this were an isolated event, the reaction would have been more muted. India has come under repeated fire in the Nepalese press for encroachments into Nepali territory. In fact, this January, Indian External Affairs Minister S M Krishna was greeted with black flags by those protesting against the encroachment. MK Narayanan, until recently India’s national security advisor, went on television to state that India supported one of the contesting parties in a 2008 election. If that is not interference, what is?

China, on the other hand, gets very different press coverage. In April this year, papers talked of how Nepal and China had come to an agreement on the height of Mount Everest. They did this by saying that both the measurements, though different, were accurate. How that is possible is again irrelevant, what matters is that the big northern neighbour ate humble pie. China moved as early as the 1960s to clear border disputes with Nepal, often to Nepal’s advantage. The goodwill this earned is clear from the fact that in 2008 Nepal sought Chinese help in settling its disputes with India.

Nepal is not an isolated case. China had, by 2006, settled 17 of its 23 territorial disputes, receiving less than 50 percent of the contested land. What it lost in territory it clearly gained in goodwill.

India’s relationship with Pakistan needs no introduction. Pakistan was, on the other hand, one of the first countries to recognise the People’s Republic in 1950 and remained a strong ally during Beijing’s isolation in the 60s and 70s. Today, it is also a big economic partner, investing in projects like the Gwadar port. The Indo-US strategic partnership (strategic for whom remains to be seen) is going to probably push Pakistan and China even closer. China may have been a little more serious than most thought when it welcomed the Indo-US strategic dialogue last month.

Bangladesh was born with Indian support. But there are issues like the Farakka Dam where Bangladesh says India has hurt water flow during the dry seasons and has caused floods during the wet seasons. Bangladesh has also talked about Bengali migrants that live in many of India’s metros — another factor that has complicated this relationship.

While India’s relationship may be going south, China’s is clearly headed north. It started to soar with China supporting Pakistan in the Bangladesh war. In 1972, it also used its veto power in the UN Security Council to block Bangladesh from joining the UN. By 2002, however, the relationship was very different with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao making an official visit to Bangladesh. Year 2005 was declared as ‘Bangladesh-China Friendship Year’ and in 2005, on Bangladesh’s invitation, China was added as an observer to the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC).

From Hambantota in Sri Lanka where China is building a port to Nepal where it is set to expand the roads in the capital to ease traffic, China is seen as a partner for development. When Shashi Tharoor, the then External Affairs Minister of India, said that the 21st century would belong to he who tells the better story, he was right. Only China seems to be doing it better.

The writer works at the South Asia Watch on Trade Economics and Environment. He can be reached at rv22.13@gmail.com


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
.
well china is like a unsolved equation for India both countries are growing but china know how and when and what to do they are playing there cards very sharply but India is still thinking what option they have


India has to think seriously when deal with china and here the question is not just china both china and Pakistan and we need to move think and act fast

as compare to our enemy we are two steps behind
 
.
We lack a clear cut policy on China. There should be a national debate and a consensus on the issues with china, to move forward quickely and decisively.
 
.
India does not understand China.

You should look to the China/Pakistan relationship to see how a good friendship works.

Also it's a good idea to read up on the sociological concept of "face" in Chinese culture, as a starting point.

We Chinese should also make the effort to improve understanding.
 
Last edited:
.
India does not understand China.

You should look to the China/Pakistan relationship to see how a good friendship works.

Also it's a good idea to read up on the sociological concept of "face" in Chinese culture, as a starting point.

We Chinese should also make the effort to improve understanding.

It is true that India does not understand China completely. There is a clear lack of communication gap from both sides. Just recently both nations have started to fill this gap. Let's see what is the ourcome.

India knows very well about China-Pakistan friendship. But to say India does not understand meaning of friendship is just illogical. India has its own friends. Anyways offtopic.

As for topic, I do not agree with the article. Brahma Challaney is a strategist who is known for hawkish approach. Situation is not that bad either. Both nations know the raste of economic fruit and are least interested in any adventure. For now, China is ahead of India. India is trying to catch up. Result is not known except one thins. Both will improve.
 
Last edited:
.
We lack a clear cut policy on China. There should be a national debate and a consensus on the issues with china, to move forward quickely and decisively.

i don't know what the govt is doing they just care about there chair no one has time to think for nation and nation future

well fact is that our leading officer and our forces should take them seriously we guys never think our force seriously we are too soft

we need strong advance and offensive force to protect our interest and govt should understand witout a stonr force no nation can secure

we are lacking behind in every field as compare to china while china is increasing its influence one every country like B.D,NEPAL,S.L what are guys are doing
 
.
India knows very well about China-Pakistan friendship. But to say India does not understand meaning of friendship is just illogical. India has its own friends. Anyways offtopic.

That is not what I mean, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am well aware that India has many friends in the world.

What I am trying to say is that you should look to the China/Pakistan friendship to understand how to be better friends with "China" specifically.

China is not easy to understand, but Pakistan figured it out. I'm sure that India can do this too.
 
.
c.

As for topic, I do not agree with the article. Brahma Challaney is a strategist who is known for hawkish approach. Situation is not that bad either. Both nations know the raste of economic fruit and are least interested in any adventure. .

cant you see the fact its not just brahma challaney if you remember bharat verma also talked about thin and lots of think thank are saying this think but we don't want to see the fact and it will be dangerous for our nation future

no one will fight for our self its our fight and we have to deal it better we take step at right time oor it will be too late
 
.
cant you see the fact its not just brahma challaney if you remember bharat verma also talked about thin and lots of think thank are saying this think but we don't want to see the fact and it will be dangerous for our nation future

no one will fight for our self its our fight and we have to deal it better we take step at right time oor it will be too late

You are comparing Brahma Challaney with Bharat Verma? :hitwall:

Besides this, India is rainsing two mountain devisions, reactivated airbases, increased intelligence, improved infrastructure. What else do you want? Our defence policies are of defensive with respect to China.
 
.
The People’s Daily — the Communist Party mouthpiece that reflects official thinking — made it clear last summer: “China won’t make any compromises in its border disputes with India.


This is somhow a strong statement for debate!!
 
.
That is not what I mean, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am well aware that India has many friends in the world.

What I am trying to say is that you should look to the China/Pakistan friendship to understand how to be better friends with "China" specifically.

China is not easy to understand, but Pakistan figured it out. I'm sure that India can do this too.

Everyone would understand china if it had an open policy. If we have to speculate the intentions of China, how can we trust you? This just leads to more and more doubts and insecurity. US is nicely playing India pitting it against China. But if China reassures us then we wont probably react to the US's machinations. Not to mention the crazy Indian media hyping up stuff to sell themselves to the masses.

Instead of reassuring, China is being belligerent commenting about annexing arunachal. I just hope that a nuclear war is not triggered by stupid misunderstandings.
 
.
That is not what I mean, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am well aware that India has many friends in the world.

What I am trying to say is that you should look to the China/Pakistan friendship to understand how to be better friends with "China" specifically.

China is not easy to understand, but Pakistan figured it out. I'm sure that India can do this too.


Dear Sir, I regret that I cannot agree with your suggestion that looking at the China-Pakistan friendship is the way to go for India. The contours of that type of friendship would not be acceptable to India/ Indians. It is precisely such suggestions that makes Indians very suspicious of China's motives. Taking the Pakistan argument further, you might next suggest that India learn from North Korea on friendship with China. It's for China to demonstrate that it can build a friendship with India based on mutual respect and recognise India's own interest in Asia & not expect a country the size of India to meekly accept China's overlordship.
 
.
A war is China's loss in economic status.
There is no doubt if China strikes India,India will repel strongly and a full fledged war will cause blood shed.
China is not like USA, which can dictate or easily win over us.
War means, no Chinese goods in India,which is probably the largest market for Chinese goods.
China will think 1000 times before striking India.If it doesn't want to concede loss.:smokin:
 
.
Here i bet,
THERE is going to be absolutely no war between India and China.
A war will be a severe loss to both the nations who are in the race to the top of the world.
War will damage the aspirations of both nations to develop and reach the platform of a developed country.
So peace is the way to go for India and China to succeed.
However,China is trying to be aggressive , posing to be developed.
Contributing to its own loss.
:pop:
But still War is just about impossible.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom