Cleric terms Women’s Protection Bill contrary to Islamic Sharia

[Saquib]

To all those who critics who object saying its contrary to Islamic Sharia If you object western influences just talk to women who have bee victims! how would you feel if your mother, sister or your daughter was used as punch bag; What will you do? seek justice from whom? if this cleric object he should offer a solution not criticize. after all in Pakistan everyone has a price? and can be bought to change their views?

SAME ON THOSE WHO OBJECT TO THIS LAW EITHER OFFER A SOLUTION OR SHUT UP!

Sorry I should have said SHAME

 

[haviZsultan]

Mullahs remain arrogant and conceited people. They have caused the downfall of societies. I don't understand why we can't practice Ijtehad and rethink many concepts of Islam according to modern times. Iqbal claimed our destruction came at the point our scholars abandoned ijtehad, an Islamic debate that started with the assumption that anyone was fallible, including the mullahs. Scholars of Ijtehad would begin with I may be wrong, they did not assme they were khalifa's and thekedars of Islam.

Our society is being ruined by these mullahs like a cancer but we are failing to and refusing to isolate or shatter that cancer. Mullahs who can't think for themselves and offer their arrogance on each topic deserve to rot. They are the ultimate problem of the country.

 

[Ragnar]

There is an ongoing litigation in India currently on sharia.
Strike down personal laws violating constitution, Kerala Muslim women ask SC | The News Minute

 

[Zibago]

Mullahs remain arrogant and conceited people. They have caused the downfall of societies. I don't understand why we can't practice Ijtehad and rethink many concepts of Islam according to modern times. Iqbal claimed our destruction came at the point our scholars abandoned ijtehad, an Islamic debate that started with the assumption that anyone was fallible, including the mullahs. Scholars of Ijtehad would begin with I may be wrong, they did not assme they were khalifa's and thekedars of Islam.

Our society is being ruined by these mullahs like a cancer but we are failing to and refusing to isolate or shatter that cancer. Mullahs who can't think for themselves and offer their arrogance on each topic deserve to rot. They are the ultimate problem of the country.

ھم نے اپنا ملک مزھب کے نام پر انتشار پھیلانے والوں کا یرغمالی بنایا ھے

 

[Dubious]

In your post 222 Cleric terms Women’s Protection Bill contrary to Islamic Sharia you put a lot of allegations on me as well as personal attacks/insults:

If you feel they are personal attacks, why is it alright for you to view anyone else's women as any less deserving as your own? Is that not personal attack on other women? I merely put your women in the picture because some people ONLY realize other people's women are ALSO human when theirs are taken into perspective!

IF you feel it is bad then why on earth can you not master any bad vibes for other women?

You have not substantiated any of those allegations with evidence(repeating those allegations in different wordings and/or emotional outbursts and/or adding even more allegations doesn't count).Either prove those allegations or take them back.
I did not do personal attacks to you, i think its reasonable to expect the same.

Giving you an example which you understand i.e. by putting you in context by using your women as an example according to you it is ok to happen to other women then according to you it should be perfectly ok to happen to yours...as you find nothing wrong with such attitude/ laws towards women!

And you till date have not brought in anything new nor analyzed anything you have said! All you did was copy paste chunks of the bill...You nit picked without going with the flow of the events/ conditions ....so I am sorry the ball is literally in your court to prove your phobia to be true....

I did not do personal attacks to you, i think its reasonable to expect the same.

I am not the one who thinks women problem are a minor issue that should not be dealt with an iron fist...it is you...so I only gave an example and your "opinion" should stay the same no matter who the victim is...woman xyz or your own woman...right?
I am not going to apologize for using something you find dear (your women) as an example to make you realize OTHER PEOPLE'S women worth the same to them!

I am sorry if you are stuck on post 222, there are def more replies for you to read!

Khula is right in Islam and when it takes place if a man disturbs after that Police can intervene because relationship is now over

Putter, Khulla is right so is fighting against oppression....Instead of wearing "churiyan" you should fight against those who wish to oppress women...Yes beating a woman up, accusing her or even treating her unfairly in QURAN is called OPPRESSION!

And ALLAH says to fight for the oppressed...so why are you not listening to ALLAH? who else do you listen to? the satan?

............................

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That is exactly how men on this thread are acting

 

[SQ8]

These clerics wont be able to define Sharia when faced with actual scholars like Imam Hanifa or Hanbl.. They are not clerics but copious consumers of Halwa and a burden on this planet.

 

[Dubious]

The difference should be with the severity of the crime, not the gender of the person committed it. If a woman stabs a man and a man stabs a woman, and if the intent and the severity of the wounds are similar then there should be the same punishment.

When it comes to stabbing and killing, I think laws in most country for sure treat the culprit as a culprit but we all know even in the West you dont lock up women and men together.....nor are punishment exactly the same...similar perhaps but not the same...

However, when it comes to shoving and pushing to the point of acid attacks, I think law needs to put its foot down!

I think you're not getting a simple point. The law should be the same for both genders, and the gender of the perpetrator and the victim should be irrelevant. If women had it difficult in the past, it doesn't make it OK to put crimes against them several levels about those against men.

I think YOU dont get it....In Pakistan (whose bill we ACTUALLY are talking about) USUALLY the women pays for even being raped! It isnt even a joke anymore!

So it less about equality issues and more about accepting the woman as a human first we will deal about the equality of human ONCE we can get the woman acknowledged as a human with feelings.

As the bill clearly states (which no one reads apparently - I wont be shocked that the politicians didnt read either) that men who commit the crime because so far women have been WRONGFULLY prosecuted for the crimes of men....so basically there are no laws which are prohibiting a woman from being charged! This is just another bill to add into the list of laws we have INCLUDING the one those currently present coz this bill in no way supersedes the laws already present (same laws which get women wrongfully prosecuted for a crime against them)...Since they manage to get WRONGFULLY CHARGED that shows there are laws applicable to men which they men can invoke when needed!

I don't see much relevance to what you're saying here. I am not saying any of this is OK. I am saying for a given crime and similar intent, there should be no difference between the punishment given to either gender.

And I am saying women ARE PROSECUTED in Pakistan....even for crime against them! So by definition it means, men can invoke these laws when needed! Why feel threatened? This is just another bill to add on to the laws already present not to delete nor replace ANY given law!

No, there should not be a difference if a crime rarely happens to men. First, this allows interest groups to come out with false studies claiming crime x is almost always perpetrated by men, which may not be true in real life. How do we determine if something is rarely happening to men?

With something that the law calls evidence? data/ statistics? ever heard of these?

 

[SQ8]

this bill in no way supersedes the laws already present

The laws are already flawed to begin with and do not espouse a single element of the concept of Sharia. When the Shariah was continuously modified and evolved even during the times of the first four caliphs based on the conditions of society, how can men from this time(especially these deplorable human beings) think themselves a better judge on what the concept of Shariat means

 

[Dubious]

A lot of commonly accepted myths that are even accepted by the governments of western countries come from feminist funded studies, e.g. domestic violence or wage gap studies. So if those governments are willing to accept feminist studies, why wouldn't the Pakistan government? And how do we define rarely? 0.1% or 10% of the time? I can't even say without doubting myself that no more than 1% of domestic violence is against men in Pakistan. The number is likely higher than that.

A woman accused of not bringing in dowry abused...so when was the last man beaten up for such "crime"? Wait men dont bring in dowry...
A woman beaten for giving birth to a girl...How often does that happen to men? Wait men dont get pregnant and dont give birth at all....

So yes some crimes are strictly happening against women! What kind of statistic do you need for these? Try 100%

The laws are already flawed to begin with and do not espouse a single element of the concept of Sharia. When the Shariah was continuously modified and evolved even during the times of the first four caliphs based on the conditions of society, how can men from this time(especially these deplorable human beings) think themselves a better judge on what the concept of Shariat means

I know and I have said the same a couple of times on this very forum ....that 1 line was coz there is a discussion going on that the bill will endanger the lives of men....I am trying to show that this bill (if it ever comes to use) is not a danger coz our previous laws are already male protective! And since this bill isnt replacing any previous law I dont understand the irrational fear of feminist groups trampling anyone!

it is plain wrong to treat male victims different.

And again, go read our laws...there are plenty of sections that even an average lawyer of Pakistan can win for his male client!

I don't see how that in anyway is a relevant response to what I said.

It is relevant to understand WHAT KIND OF "PROBLEMS" women in Pakistan face ....you do not even know/ want to know the kind of crimes/ mindset and the environment and you are fighting about its laws? Now that is laughable!

The crimes in Pakistani society have reached the level they have coz of our previous laws....mostly male centrist....meaning most of the time men walk unscratched....Now if 1 bill comes in favour of women it isnt the end of the world...Women have lived in a male governed world for a very long time 1 bill isnt going to change the society overnight...nor its going to withhold any men from using the previously already available laws favouring him to win his case of innocence even if he is guilty!

 

[SQ8]

I know and I have said the same a couple of times on this very forum ....that 1 line was coz there is a discussion going on that the bill will endanger the lives of men....I am trying to show that this bill (if it ever comes to use) is not a danger coz our previous laws are already male protective! And since this bill isnt replacing any previous law I dont understand the irrational fear of feminist groups trampling anyone!

The bill is designed to protect the highly patriarchal and misogynistic ideals of the clergy and the section of the populous they represent. Period. They would not give a plate of Qorma with sheermal to care about whether you understand or not.

 

[Dubious]

The bill is designed to protect the highly patriarchal and misogynistic ideals of the clergy and the section of the populous they represent. Period. They would not give a plate of Qorma with sheermal to care about whether you understand or not.

Just 1 question did you by any chance read the bill?

 

[SQ8]

Just 1 question did you by any chance read the bill?

The new bill or the original Shariat bill called the 15th amendment?

 

[Dubious]

The new bill or the original Shariat bill called the 15th amendment?

the thread IS about the new bill....what are you talking about?

 

[SQ8]

the thread IS about the new bill....what are you talking about?

This thread is about a bill that protects women's laws which is being opposed by these ghubaras based on the Shariat bill which is the 15th amendment.

 

[curious]

If you feel they are personal attacks

Of course they're personal attacks, anyone can see that

why is it alright for you to view anyone else's women as any less deserving as your own?

There you go again, another allegation, where did i say anything of the sort ? can you point it out? Not to mention those other things you said earlier.Making statements based on assumptions that are utterly false to begin with. Apparently some people have no shame.

Giving you an example which you understand i.e. by putting you in context by using your women as an example according to you it is ok to happen to other women then according to you it should be perfectly ok to happen to yours...as you find nothing wrong with such attitude/ laws towards women!

Ok.... this is getting ridiculous now

And you till date have not brought in anything new nor analyzed anything you have said! All you did was copy paste chunks of the bill...You nit picked without going with the flow of the events/ conditions ....so I am sorry the ball is literally in your court to prove your phobia to be true....

The problems with this law have been pointed out time and time again by several people including me, it is you who hasn't refuted the points raised. Shaming or guilt tripping doesn't amount to refuting, and when that doesn't work resorting to full on personal attacks.

I am not going to apologize for using something you find dear (your women) as an example to make you realize OTHER PEOPLE'S women worth the same to them!

You wont apologize...hmm so there is some realization there... but now you are trying to distract with another rant based on an assumption that i don't see other women as deserving as "my" women....
some people have no shame.