Cleric terms Women’s Protection Bill contrary to Islamic Sharia

[Numerous]

In that sense, isn't every argument against islam "attacking" the religion?

PS: Have anyone seen the bill to actually see wether or not it is against islam? If so, do share the bill, I'd like the religious folks point it out for us instead.

Yes that is true. Arguing against Islam is basically someone telling Allah that they know better than him and that Allah got it wrong.

 

[TheNoob]

Yes that is true. Arguing against Islam is basically someone telling Allah that they know better than him and that Allah got it wrong.

Now I understand why people tend to blow themselves up.

There should be a line where understanding of critics can be discussed, without violence or brawls.

I did not mean to offend anyone but its just how most people take the religion too seriously to the fact where they feel the need of hurting the other party is a viable option, I will never understand that.

I hope you to understand what i'm trying to say.

 

[SMC]

Same post I made in another thread.

IMO, the issue is more enforcement than anything else. Law enforcement is completely lacking in Pakistan, this bill won't make too much difference.

Also in the long term, no law should be gender-specific. Make one law that applies to both genders equally. Anyone breaking the law, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator and victim should be held equally accountable.

 

[Bratva]

You're attacking Islam here, albeit indirectly(and unintentionally).

Islam (to our ummah)was revealed in the 7th century. The rules Allah sent were for every century till the day of judgement, not just the 7th century. They were sent to Arabs but they're for every Muslim, regardless of ethnicity or race. Would you attack Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) too? And throw out Allah's laws simply because they were revealed in Arabia, in the 7th century?

I will also mention here that I have read neither the article (nor the Mufti/Mullah's rebuttal) in full. I just disagree with the way you're attempting to argue here because many kuffar use the same argument. And they use it to argue against Islam.

For a thread full of Pakistanis, it's quite sad to see so many insults and backbiting. This last part isn't in relation to your post but it keeps editing it unto my reply whenever I tried to make a new post.

Who says I'm attacking Islam and Nauzubillah Allah And Rasool (SAW) ? Let me ask you, Allah laws are to be applied on a society who are truthful, honest will admit their own mistakes infront of a Qaazi. Name one Allah Law which can not be exploited in todays society and environment and I will agree with you on that to apply that law as it is and verbatim on the whole society !

When civil laws are made in addition to Islamic laws, it is so that Human nature can not exploit Allah Laws and if he tries to exploit that, We can nail him down with man made law.

Common sense has died in Mullahs and their followers. They should consider human nature before enforcing Allah laws on collective society and make human laws as per the requirements despite if it contradicts Quran and Sharia in some instances so that A person can get justice.

One of the reasons I don't post much is the aggressive attitude, why the anger, why can't discuss things normally????

You might understand English, you might be PhD., but this doesn't mean you understand what's against Quran & Sunnah ---- A qualified Scholar is the one whose opinion will matter and you don't want to sit with him, WHY ; maybe because he will exactly point out the flaws which you don't like to listen?

Islam surely deals with every subject including domestic abuse, there are 1000's of books available, it's just you need some courage to open up books relating to Islamic laws.

Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing shah. That's what makes me sad. You will write 100's of pages of argument without talking on point.

Define the beating as per Quran and Sunnah and How Prophets before Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to punish or beat lightly their wives for their disobedience and then compare the beating,violence and psychological torture of 21st century that Punjabi women in general and Pakistan women in specific faces.


Lets consider a scenario. What happened with Hazrat Ayesha (RA) that someone accused Her (RA) with slanderous accusations, If somethings occurs with todays women, what are the chances A person will decide her case based on Quran or Sunnah, or will he Decide her case based on Emotions and customs prevailing in the society ? Honor killing at worst, Slut shaming severe beating, forceful marriage to some bhudda khosat, social boycott, or evict her from home will occur ?


You @Zarvan forgets what happened to those Kohistani ladies whose only crime was to dance with some boys in a marriage function ? Supposedly Kohistani Mullahs killed them citing their custom they defiled their tribal honor. Where is Quran and Sunnah in such case ?

Do you have courage to stop the exploitation of Islamic laws ? No you dont. Thats why Civil laws such as these are made so to ensure Human nature can be controlled which cant be controlled through Islamic Law in any case.

And yeah I would love to hear how you think enforcing Islamic laws verbatim can control the human nature as well. Because there is a strong precedent of from Rightly guided calips eras of how shariah laws were collapsed and didnot obeyed by the masses.

bro need some clarifications
1) how will courts decide that a person is aggrieved and how will bare the burden of proof.
2)condition under which one can claim eviction of her abuser from the house.
3)if house is property of abuser or for that matter any family members of his what will happen then.can victim be removed from his property.
4) what if the male is being harassed by his wife and in laws does this law protect him or is it only female centric.

This will depend on the courts then. They will define the law further and will be responsible that nobody will exploit it for their gains.

For the point 2. Immediate point comes into my mind is the medical report of the victim will be a strong evidence in this case.

If Female is harassing husband, sufficient laws exist. Both federal and provincial under which he can file case against her wife.

 

[Zarvan]

Who says I'm attacking Islam and Nauzubillah Allah And Rasool (SAW) ? Let me ask you, Allah laws are to be applied on a society who are truthful, honest will admit their own mistakes infront of a Qaazi. Name one Allah Law which can not be exploited in todays society and environment and I will agree with you on that to apply that law as it is and verbatim on the whole society !

When civil laws are made in addition to Islamic laws, it is so that Human nature can not exploit Allah Laws and if he tries to exploit that, We can nail him down with man made law.

Common sense has died in Mullahs and their followers. They should consider human nature before enforcing Allah laws on collective society and made human laws as per the requirements despite that it contradicts Quran and Sharia in some instances so that A person can get justice.



Now you are arguing for the sake of arguign shah. That's what makes me sad. You will write 100's of pages of argument without talking on point.

Define the beating as per Quran and Sunnah and How Prophets before Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to punish or beat lightly their wives for their in-obedience and then compare the beating,violence and psychological torture of 21st century that Punjabi women in general and Pakistan women in specefic faces.


Lets consider a scenario. What happened with Hazrat Ayesha (RA) that someone accused Her (RA) with slanderous accusations, If somethings occurs with todays women, what are the chances A person will decide her case based on Quran or Sunnah, or will he Decide her case based on Emotions and customs previaling in the society ? Honor killing at worst, Slut shaming severe beating, forceful marriage to some bhudda khosat, social boycott, or evict her from home will occur ?


You @Zarvan forgets what happened to those Kohistani ladies whose only crime was to dance with some boys in a marriage function ? Supposedly Kohistani Mullahs killed them citing their custom they defiled their honor. Where is Quran and Sunnah in such case ?

Do you have courage to stop the exploitation of Islamic laws ? No you dont. Thats why Civil laws such as these are made so to ensure Human nature can be controlled which cant be controlled through Islamic Law in any case.

And yeah I would love to hear how you think enforcing Islamic laws verbatim can control the human nature as well. Because there is a strong precedent of from Rightly guided calips eras of how shariah laws were collapsed and didnot obeyed by the masses.



This will depend on the courts then. They will define the law further and will be responsible that nobody will exploit it for their gains.

For the point 2. Immediate point comes into my mind is the medical report of the victim will be a strong evidence in this case.

If Female is harassing husband, sufficient laws exist. Both federal and provincial under which he can file case against her wife.

Wel as for Kohistani Girls their killer should be killed. Now in fact this is one point if you would embarrass man by putting tracker on him their are more chances of him getting more pissed and end up killing the women. Each point of law is stupid and will only increase violence against women

 

[litman]

the only little problem is the clash between secular muslims and the extremist muslims and both categories of muslims don't know islam. a true muslim man or women exactly knows what are his/her rights and duties. 99% of the pakistani muslims don't even know what is written in quran and yet we very easily pass remarks on many of the religious issues. the true islamic scholars are very very few in our society. most of the mullahs are people with low IQ who use islam for their own agenda .

 

[Numerous]

Now I understand why people tend to blow themselves up.

There should be a line where understanding of critics can be discussed, without violence or brawls.

I did not mean to offend anyone but its just how most people take the religion too seriously to the fact where they feel the need of hurting the other party is a viable option, I will never understand that.

I hope you to understand what i'm trying to say.

They blow themselves because up they themselves are ignorant of Islam and their ideology is corrupted. Our society is so corrupt and devoid of Islam that some of people our don't even realize that blowing yourself in a mosque of another sect, is a harm.

If a person wishes to ask more information about why Islam orders such an act, then I'm not against that.

I do

Who says I'm attacking Islam and Nauzubillah Allah And Rasool (SAW) ? Let me ask you, Allah laws are to be applied on a society who are truthful, honest will admit their own mistakes infront of a Qaazi. Name one Allah Law which can not be exploited in todays society and environment and I will agree with you on that to apply that law as it is and verbatim on the whole society !

When civil laws are made in addition to Islamic laws, it is so that Human nature can not exploit Allah Laws and if he tries to exploit that, We can nail him down with man made law.

Common sense has died in Mullahs and their followers. They should consider human nature before enforcing Allah laws on collective society and make human laws as per the requirements despite if it contradicts Quran and Sharia in some instances so that A person can get justice.

I'm saying you've unintentionally done it indirectly by making the "we don't follow 7th century arab laws, we are pakistanis" argument.

Any law can be ignored if evil people are in charge. Islam is not simply a religion where we pray 5 times, Islam is a bullet point guide to running a state. Our Muslim predecessors were able to do it without man-made laws, so will we. Islam ensures it's own protection through it's own laws. However after centuries of colonization, generations of corrupt rulers and deviant beliefs being tolerated, we've reached a point where we're making bad excuses not to apply Allah's laws in our lands.

To be honest, a lot of religion is particularly wrecked in Pakistan because of our own toleration of deviant beliefs. Evil men like Amir Liaqat can come on TV, they can accuse someone's mother of zina and we still allow them to carry on their show. In Islam he would be punished for slander. But we don't forbid evil and then we complain that common sense has died in other people.

 

[Spring Onion]

One of the reasons I don't post much is the aggressive attitude, why the anger, why can't discuss things normally????

You might understand English, you might be PhD., but this doesn't mean you understand what's against Quran & Sunnah ---- A qualified Scholar is the one whose opinion will matter and you don't want to sit with him, WHY ; maybe because he will exactly point out the flaws which you don't like to listen?

Islam surely deals with every subject including domestic abuse, there are 1000's of books available, it's just you need some courage to open up books relating to Islamic laws.

Well please tell the mullas to read those thousands of books so that at least they could understand a simple thing that WOMEN also have Human rights.

 

[litman]

Yes that is true. Arguing against Islam is basically someone telling Allah that they know better than him and that Allah got it wrong.

it all depends what is your intention one is arguing islamic teachings. the right way is to submit to the teachings of the islam whether you like or not. then start looking for the answers to your queries. with the increase in the depth of the knowledge and faith one will get satisfaction and will come to the conclusion that whatever the manufacturer has written in the manual is actually right and one was wrong in understanding at the beginning. this thing needs effort, intention and time. but the unfortunate part is that how many muslims today really think that islamic teachings are really important. how many give time to these issues and how many make a sincere effort to understand islam.we have got " better" things to do these days unfortunately. According to sahi bukhari the Prophet SAW mentioned that at the end times there will be dearth of knowledge. it stands correct today.

 

[Numerous]

it all depends what is your intention one is arguing islamic teachings. the right way is to submit to the teachings of the islam whether you like or not. then start looking for the answers to your queries. with the increase in the depth of the knowledge and faith one will get satisfaction and will come to the conclusion that whatever the manufacturer has written in the manual is actually right and one was wrong in understanding at the beginning. this thing needs effort, intention and time. but the unfortunate part is that how many muslims today really think that islamic teachings are really important. how many give time to these issues and how many make a sincere effort to understand islam.we have got " better" things to do these days unfortunately. According to sahi bukhari the Prophet SAW mentioned that at the end times there will be dearth of knowledge. it stands correct today.

I think we in the Muslim world, we are better off then we were perhaps 50 years ago. More people attend mosques, more people know more about religion and I have seen people put vast amounts of time into fighting deviant beliefs that held in our home countries.

Bro I go to medical in the UK and it's amazing to see how many other young students (the future doctors, dentists, engineers) come for Jummah, they take part in ISOC (Islamic society) events, they try to read 5x a day etc... We are changing slowly and it will eventually change our condition in the future insha'Allah

 

[Spring Onion]

I closely watch the behavior of members in this forum, don't expect from me to post Islamic material here ---- yes this is a good defence related forum and I have learnt alot from you people, but sorry to say this forum has a very rude/immature behaviour towards Islamic laws.

Most importantly, people should themselves find out the material relating to this issue --- We have all the time to do different stuff, why not just spare some time to read what Islam says on different issues.

Islam is not silent on any issue (like some people say), it's a complete system --- Quaide Azam understood this, unfortunately Our liberals don't.

Well my dear as you angrily said in another post that you are not mulla this sums up the fact that these politically motivated mullas are an offense to everybody here.

As far as understanding Islamic laws or Islamic point of view on women rights well we do not need thousands of books and these men who are opposing this bill.

The reality is that these men interpreted sharia according to their own will and wishes even then they failed to act according to their own styled sharia so we are left with no other option but to pass bills that are protecting women and which are also NOT against Islam.

This bill has nothing against Islam.

I am at loss to understand that why these individuals or religious parties failed to look at the bill from a legal and technical aspect ? I swear if i was their party member I would have gone for technicalities of the bill on the bases of which it could be opposed or debated upon without drawing any criticism from "liberal" as you call all of us.

If a person commits violence if not serious than should be talked and put some sense into him if he again does something aggressive than if he is the owner of house you can't throw him out of the house. As for women she should leave house return to family get divorce and marry some sane person. If women owns house than she can ask husband to leave. As for putting tracker this will increase embarrassment for men which would lead to so called honor killing.

well killing women on excuse of honor even if the tracker nabs the men while dating and having sex with other women. but why? he should kill himself not the woman

 

[Zarvan]

Well my dear as you angrily said in another post that you are not mulla this sums up the fact that these politically motivated mullas are an offense to everybody here.

As far as understanding Islamic laws or Islamic point of view on women rights well we do not need thousands of books and these men who are opposing this bill.

The reality is that these men interpreted sharia according to their own will and wishes even then they failed to act according to their own styled sharia so we are left with no other option but to pass bills that are protecting women and which are also NOT against Islam.

This bill has nothing against Islam.

I am at loss to understand that why these individuals or religious parties failed to look at the bill from a legal and technical aspect ? I swear if i was their party member I would have gone for technicalities of the bill on the bases of which it could be opposed or debated upon without drawing any criticism from "liberal" as you call all of us.



well killing women on excuse of honor even if the tracker nabs the men while dating and having sex with other women. but why? he should kill himself not the woman

We are not living in ideal world that's the problem

 

[pak-marine]

Wel as for Kohistani Girls their killer should be killed. Now in fact this is one point if you would embarrass man by putting tracker on him their are more chances of him getting more pissed and end up killing the women. Each point of law is stupid and will only increase violence against women

If he kills than there is dafa teen so do too take care of him ... Point is there is a law to take care of domestic badmashi now

 

[Zarvan]

If he kills than there is dafa teen so do too take care of him ... Point is there is a law to take care of domestic badmashi now

Yes a Badmashi which can be put away by talking to a Guy may turn into murders becsuse of this dumb law

 

[litman]

I think we in the Muslim world, we are better off then we were perhaps 50 years ago. More people attend mosques, more people know more about religion and I have seen people put vast amounts of time into fighting deviant beliefs that held in our home countries.

Bro I go to medical in the UK and it's amazing to see how many other young students (the future doctors, dentists, engineers) come for Jummah, they take part in ISOC (Islamic society) events, they try to read 5x a day etc... We are changing slowly and it will eventually change our condition in the future insha'Allah

good to see that. in my field (medical) most of the doctors skip jummah prayers very easily. only 5-10% offer jummah prayer. most of us are just too busy in practice, degrees and courses.